Graves at Residential schools

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kgcayenne
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Re: Remains of 215 youth found

Post by kgcayenne »

Fancy wrote: May 31st, 2021, 11:51 am I really don't see "gaslighting" regarding this news item and no one is sweeping it under the rug at all. Getting to the bottom of what happened means digging up the ground and investigating each and every remains that are found - that's all that really matters right now.


Fancy, I’m seeing deflection in this thread by certain posters. When surviving children tried to say something in the past, you better believe they were gaslit.
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Re: Remains of 215 youth found

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coffeeFreak wrote: May 30th, 2021, 4:13 pm For those of you arguing that these places were used to "educate" what have you got to say about this?

...highly unethical nutrition experiments performed on Canadian Aboriginal children at six residential schools between 1942 and 1952 (2) – our own medical atrocities. The experiments were performed by the Department of Indian Affairs of Canada under the direction of two physicians...In these experiments, parents were not informed, nor were consents obtained. Even as children died, the experiments continued. Even after the recommendations from the Nuremberg trial, these experiments continued.
In these experiments, control and treatment groups of mal-nourished children were denied adequate nutrition. In one experiment, the treatment group received supplements of riboflavin, thiamine and/or ascorbic acid supplements to determine whether these mitigated the problems – they did not. In another, children were given a flour mix containing added thiamine, riboflavin, niacin and bone meal. Rather than improving nutrition, the children became more anemic, likely contributing to more deaths and certainly impacting development. In these experiments, efforts were made to control as many factors as possible, even when they harmed the research subjects. For example, previously available dental care was denied in some settings because the researchers wanted to observe the state of dental caries and gingivitis with malnutrition.

How could we have let this happen? Why did we not know about this long before now? Why did these experiments not stop when the Nuremberg Code was put forward?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3941673/
I read about this yesterday too, and it makes me sick.
"We" didn't let it happen, but someone did, and quite a few people had to know it was going on. Whoever fed these children, or didn't feed them, knew what they were or were not getting to eat. When they died, someone knew it, and they knew why.
Just because a physician was involved doesn't make it somehow excusable. Just because similar horrific experiments were performed on other children or mental patients somewhere else, does not excuse it. Even if there were no laws specifically about this a hundred years ago, common decency would have known that "First do no harm" was seriously violated by some physicians and those who "cared" (I use the term loosely) for these children. Why didn't they tell anyone, especially the parents? Because they knew it was wrong. Even in the Catholic church, which has it's own evil ways of operating, "Thou shallt not kill" is pretty simple for a priest to understand. In the law, it's called failing to provide the necessities of life. So anyone who is calling this "educating children" please explain why the white settlers children were not "educated" this way.
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Re: Remains of 215 youth found

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Canada and it’s churches knew exactly what the goal of the schools were.

Any justification by today’s Canadians is rooted in their hatred for natives.
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Re: Remains of 215 youth found

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Brass Monkey wrote: May 31st, 2021, 12:02 pm Canada and it’s churches knew exactly what the goal of the schools were.

Any justification by today’s Canadians is rooted in their hatred for natives.
Not everyone in Canada knew what was going on in these schools. But I am certain that if ordinary Catholics had known what was being done to these children, they would have been outraged. Now we do know, it's only been out in the general knowledge for a relatively short period of time, but we are still hearing justification for this outrageous treatment of children. What is wrong with people? Why aren't Catholics outraged and demanding the Church atone for this? Even in catholicism they can't just confess their sins and all is forgiven. There is the very important step of atonement. Which cannot happen until the wrongdoing first admitted to, all of it, and forgiveness sought. Secretly burying children who died in their care, is not an act on the path seeking forgiveness. Really today people can do a lot, especially Catholics and christians of any churches involved. Get under those Bishops skin, and dig in until they make a public confession! and cough up the documents, all of them.
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Re: Remains of 215 youth found

Post by Mrmarvingardens »

This story gives some relief for the media, who for more than a year have been Coviding us to death.
Sad as it is, referring to the deaths as genocide, ethnic cleansing is nonsense as is equating it to deaths in Bosnia, and can be described as piffle.
It has been known for years by the Indian bands there are mass graves at the Kamloops site.
It is also known that tuberculosis was a killer disease that claimed many native members.
Operating since 1898, the school premises are still used as a school and daycare.
The provincial government provided (more) money for the new technology that located the unmarked grave sites.
National day of mourning...flags at half mast..more money for misdeeds of 75 to over 100 years ago tearing down statues won't right the wrongs.
Reporting stories minus a lot of facts is the way of the news media today.Which is unfortunate.
For the future we can and must do better.
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Re: Remains of 215 youth found

Post by stuphoto »

techrtr wrote: May 31st, 2021, 11:27 am
stuphoto wrote: May 31st, 2021, 11:19 am
The same thing can be said for any radiology equipment and probably every other machine on earth.
One x-ray technician knows exactly how to point the camera to capture pretty much any abnormalitie in 99% of their patients, where the next one may only have a 85% chance.

Personally, I do stake my own life in the hands of it's operators every winter I work up north.
They use it to measure and monitor the ice thickness and density. Since they started this process not one truck has broken through the ice.
Measuring ice thickness and density is not the same as identifying what's buried in the ground.
Actually you are right,
One saves lives and is more critical.
However it is the exact same machine being used, and the same technique.
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Re: Remains of 215 youth found

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This story concerns me,
https://globalnews.ca/news/7908050/resi ... s-trudeau/
Trudeau vows "concrete action" after discovery of 215 bodies at former residential school site

Will he be handing out millions? I really hope not.
I'm posting this from Traditional lands of the British Empire & the current Lands of The Dominion of Canada.
I also give thanks for this ethos richness bestowed on us via British Colonialism.

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Re: Remains of 215 youth found

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bb49 wrote: May 31st, 2021, 3:24 pm This story concerns me,
https://globalnews.ca/news/7908050/resi ... s-trudeau/
Trudeau vows "concrete action" after discovery of 215 bodies at former residential school site
Will he be handing out millions? I really hope not.
Issues regarding First Nations, like the clean water projects mentioned by Trudeau, are federal jurisdiction. I should think finding the children who died while in government/church "care" (incarceration) would also be the responsibility of the federal government, unless where a province is involved in its jurisdiction. So likely the federal and provincial governments will be "handing out millions" as you call it, to investigate the handling of these children's lives and deaths. For one thing, I question how the Catholic church is still allowed to be involved in the business of schooling children, with a track record like this?
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Re: Remains of 215 youth found

Post by sherashera »

bb49 wrote: May 31st, 2021, 3:24 pm This story concerns me,
https://globalnews.ca/news/7908050/resi ... s-trudeau/
Trudeau vows "concrete action" after discovery of 215 bodies at former residential school site

Will he be handing out millions? I really hope not.
I really hope not either.
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Re: Remains of 215 youth found

Post by Lesley2525 »

stuphoto wrote: May 29th, 2021, 9:18 am This story says 51 deaths were recorded there.
https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/ne ... al-schools
So either someone was very lazy or covering something up.
Here is a quote from the article
This week saw the discovery of something outside Kamloops, B.C., rarely seen in North America, much less in any corner of the developed world: Unmarked and previously forgotten graves, all belonging to children who died at the Kamloops Indian Residential School.
Actually what this is article says is not quite true. Terrible things happened to children and babies in the fairly recent past, especially poor children. .
Here are some very sad examples of mass unmarked graves of children in the first world. Some of the children might have died of abuse (and perhaps all in the Butterbox Baby case) but probably most of the children died of communicable diseases,

At the site of a Catholic home for unwed mothers in Ireland it is believed hundreds of babies and children are buried in unmarked graves.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... in-ireland

In Scotland a terrible Catholic run orphanage took in 11,600 disadvantaged children between 1864 and 1981. It is believed 400 children are buried in unmarked graves at the site.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-ne ... stitution.


Workhouses in England lasted until 1930. Many adults and children suffered and died in these appalling places, and were buried in unmarked paupers graves, if you were very poor there was no place else to go, Children were separated from their parents. In Dicken's novel Oliver Twist, the main character started in a workhouse. Similar places in Scotland were called Poorhouses.
https://youtu.be/gMobWOWh5RI


The following account of the unmarked graves of 700 children in Newfoundland isn't quite as disturbing as the others since it is believed the children were mostly buried by their families. Most of the names of the children and babies have been found in Catholic church records, but 250 were buried under aliases such as "baby girl White" or simply "baby boy."
https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/monument- ... -1.3138677


Nova Scotia is home to the horrendous "butterbox babies" affair. Not Catholics this time, but a couple of shady Seventh Day Adventists ran a home for unwed mothers. "Babies who were considered 'unadoptable', either because of skin color or health issues, were left to die and buried in the woods behind the Home or dumped into the ocean" They sold the other babies. Netflix made a drama about it, and several books have been written about it.
https://youtu.be/j-DSosDBUZg
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Re: Remains of 215 youth found

Post by PoplarSoul »

bb49 wrote: May 31st, 2021, 3:24 pm Will he be handing out millions? I really hope not.
Why not?
Can't you spare a dime?
As a taxpayer that's about how much it will cost you.
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Re: Remains of 215 youth found

Post by sherashera »

PoplarSoul wrote: May 31st, 2021, 5:09 pm
bb49 wrote: May 31st, 2021, 3:24 pm Will he be handing out millions? I really hope not.
Why not?
Can't you spare a dime?
As a taxpayer that's about how much it will cost you.
Sorry Natives get more than enough from our government already. So no I won't be happy about our tax dollars going towards this. It happened 100 years ago.
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Re: Remains of 215 youth found

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sherashera wrote: May 31st, 2021, 5:22 pm Sorry Natives get more than enough from our government already. So no I won't be happy about our tax dollars going towards this. It happened 100 years ago.
The government hasn’t even paid for the land that you created your livelihood on. There’s 2.6 trillion to be paid out.

Residential schools and the atrocities that happened within them are more recent than a 100 years ago. Charlie Wenjack only died escaping his school in 1966.

You disgrace the residential school survivors in our communities by pretending they are not alive today.
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Re: Remains of 215 youth found

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Brass Monkey wrote: May 31st, 2021, 5:34 pm Residential schools and the atrocities that happened within them are more recent than a 100 years ago. Charlie Wenjack only died escaping his school in 1966.
What happened to Chanie Wenjack was terrible. He died after the adults in the families of the kids with whom he ran away allowed him to continue on alone, on foot, in October. It is easier to place all of the blame for his death on the adults at Chanie's day school and his boarding house, than it is to acknowledge the several adults who actually knew he was leaving on foot, in October, alone, and allowed him to make the attempt.

Many First Nations children were abused while they were boarding out - often forcibly - to attend day schools and residential schools, and far too many in ways that would have been considered abuse in the context of the times during which these abuses happened. The adults responsible for those abuses should most certainly be held accountable, as should those who stood by knowing what was happening.

We don't yet know the circumstances of all of the children buried here, and we may never know. But IMO it simply isn't respectful to remodel them all into a montage and "see" them all blended together the only way folk today see "Charlie" Wenjack. The poster child of "Charlie" Wenjack is more real to people than the little boy Chanie Wenjack, whose real life and real death no longer seem to matter quite enough.

It seems to me we must, as best we can, see each of these children as individuals.
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Re: Remains of 215 youth found

Post by stuphoto »

*removed*
Last edited by ferri on May 31st, 2021, 6:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Personal attack

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