Crane collapse downtown

just_browsing
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Re: Crane collapse downtown

Post by just_browsing »

I'll stand tall on this one and shut you down. That's absolutely not how it works my friend.

Kelowna is relying on the rest of the world/country for absolutely everything. To people like yourself who rely on others to do all your dirty work, this seems normal and OK.

To anyone that has spent a career in any type of labor or emergency services knows the real story. It is extending so far now that we can't even rescue our own citizens due to the technical nature of how the city is building and the lack of personnel.

I suppose when one of these buildings collapses, we will call in the crew from Miami who are already trained.

I suppose when one catches fire, we will call on the other communities to help.

If you pay attention to the news, West Kelowna can't build highrises because of the cost of equipment and training for their firefighters.

Yet our city managers, and many many other white shirts are telling us that we will call on the Westside Fire Department, who is untrained in high rise firefighting (as per Chief Brolund) to help??

We are calling on the rest of the world to help us when we can't even tie our own shoes.

At what point are the speculators and capitalists going to wake up and realize that there is a life outside of money...there is a life outside of growth.

I'm not saying this would change ANYTHING on the outcome of this event but I'll leave you with this.

Is it fair that we are all paying the same, if not more, insurance rates as other cities who have all the protections in place and has trained staff ready to respond?

I don't feel it is, but money aside, I only care that the people that go to work to serve an employer and come home alive. I only care about the safety of the people in this city. I don't care if someone doesn't make enough to take their family on a nice vacation.

However, after much reading on these forums over the years, it's clear that I stand differently than many on this forum. So many keep pushing people like myself aside for the excuse of "the future" or "growth".

An elderly lady stood at the sidewalk on St. Paul the day after the accident. She looked devastated, as all of us are. But the words she spoke rung so true.

"Are they done yet? Why are we building these when no one here wants them? Now at the expense of lives lost."

I know it could happen anywhere and on any job site in the world. However, I feel it's time to take a check at yourselves and ask yourself if this is what you really want.

Do you really want highrises? If so, ask yourself for what. For what reason are we doing this to Kelowna. Is it only for looks? Are we sacrificing lives for looks?

I can tell you one thing..it's definitely not bringing families here and it's definitely not providing affordable living.

Again, my condolences to all those involved. Nothing is more tragic than this...nothing.
Even Steven
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Re: Crane collapse downtown

Post by Even Steven »

just_browsing wrote: Jul 14th, 2021, 9:30 am That's absolutely not how it works my friend.
Well, given the number of municipalities in the country with high rises, and only SIX (6) highly specialized rescue teams for the entire country - meaning that all these municipalities don't have one just like Kelowna, you are obviously proven wrong.
TylerM4
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Re: Crane collapse downtown

Post by TylerM4 »

Even Steven wrote: Jul 14th, 2021, 9:38 am
Well, given the number of municipalities in the country with high rises, and only SIX (6) highly specialized rescue teams for the entire country - meaning that all these municipalities don't have one just like Kelowna, you are obviously proven wrong.
Thanks. Got a real kick out of that post. As you've clearly stated - only 6 cities in all of Canada have this service. Cities MUCH bigger than Kelowna. Someone clearly has no idea what they're talking about.


A whopping total of 1 crane collapse in the entirety of Kelowna's history:
Armchair experts - CoK leadership sucks, they don't know what they're doing, we need a specialized rescue team, etc.
Cok - OK we'll spend millions of dollars annually in case it happens again someday simply to avoid a couple of days delay bringing in a specialized team from out of city.
Armchair experts at tax season - CoK leadership sucks, they're spending money like it's going to expire and can't control costs.
Terris
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Re: Crane collapse downtown

Post by Terris »

just_browsing wrote: Jul 14th, 2021, 9:30 am I'll stand tall on this one and shut you down. That's absolutely not how it works my friend.

Kelowna is relying on the rest of the world/country for absolutely everything. To people like yourself who rely on others to do all your dirty work, this seems normal and OK.

To anyone that has spent a career in any type of labor or emergency services knows the real story. It is extending so far now that we can't even rescue our own citizens due to the technical nature of how the city is building and the lack of personnel.

I suppose when one of these buildings collapses, we will call in the crew from Miami who are already trained.

I suppose when one catches fire, we will call on the other communities to help.

If you pay attention to the news, West Kelowna can't build highrises because of the cost of equipment and training for their firefighters.

Yet our city managers, and many many other white shirts are telling us that we will call on the Westside Fire Department, who is untrained in high rise firefighting (as per Chief Brolund) to help??

We are calling on the rest of the world to help us when we can't even tie our own shoes.

At what point are the speculators and capitalists going to wake up and realize that there is a life outside of money...there is a life outside of growth.

I'm not saying this would change ANYTHING on the outcome of this event but I'll leave you with this.

Is it fair that we are all paying the same, if not more, insurance rates as other cities who have all the protections in place and has trained staff ready to respond?

I don't feel it is, but money aside, I only care that the people that go to work to serve an employer and come home alive. I only care about the safety of the people in this city. I don't care if someone doesn't make enough to take their family on a nice vacation.

However, after much reading on these forums over the years, it's clear that I stand differently than many on this forum. So many keep pushing people like myself aside for the excuse of "the future" or "growth".

An elderly lady stood at the sidewalk on St. Paul the day after the accident. She looked devastated, as all of us are. But the words she spoke rung so true.

"Are they done yet? Why are we building these when no one here wants them? Now at the expense of lives lost."

I know it could happen anywhere and on any job site in the world. However, I feel it's time to take a check at yourselves and ask yourself if this is what you really want.

Do you really want highrises? If so, ask yourself for what. For what reason are we doing this to Kelowna. Is it only for looks? Are we sacrificing lives for looks?

I can tell you one thing..it's definitely not bringing families here and it's definitely not providing affordable living.

Again, my condolences to all those involved. Nothing is more tragic than this...nothing.
:up: :up:

Just wait till the sinkholes start appearing amidst this cluster of erections being built by competing rich kids, who are constantly twisting the arms of city council, to build ever higher. This hi-rise building idiocy will become especially problematic if the lake levels drop in our new climate paradigm.

These concrete behemoths are being built here on pile cap foundations, on what is essentially sandy, glacial till swampland, similar to how most of Florida's swampy urban centers were built up.

I wouldn't be surprised now, if a foundation shift beneath the crane slab, was found to be a contributing factor to this tragic collapse.

We're only one moderate earthquake away from seeing these buildings bend flaccidly over each other due to liquefaction.

I can only imagine what the insurance rates will be in the future. Who will be held responsible then??

Anyone here remember what happened when Kelowna's first leaning hi-rise, the Kiwanis Tower, was built? The engineers then, also thought they knew what they were doing.

Today you can't find any information on that engineering problem, due to the information being buried by those with "$kin" in the developer game, and who are painting these new projects in all shades of $un$hine and $mile$...

My prediction is, that at some point no external specialized Urban Rescue Team will be able to save the day for us.

Not all development equates to progress...

:popcorn:
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Rejigger
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Re: Crane collapse downtown

Post by Rejigger »

just_browsing wrote: Jul 14th, 2021, 9:30 am I suppose when one of these buildings collapses, we will call in the crew from Miami who are already trained.
It's funny you should mention that, because Surfside Florida called in crews from Israel and Mexico. Just sayin'.

Edit to add:
Canada sent in a plane from Calgary's Kenn Borek air to rescue an American from the South Pole.
Canada helped America?! *gasp*

Canadian companies were involved with capping oil wells that Saddam Hussein set ablaze in Iraq.

And I'm sure there are thousands more examples of cities/countries receiving help from other cities/countries.
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alanjh595
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Re: Crane collapse downtown

Post by alanjh595 »

Even Steven wrote: Jul 14th, 2021, 8:55 am
just_browsing wrote: Jul 14th, 2021, 8:47 am Good point! These teams are only located where they are needed. Kelowna doesn't need them.
Nope, they travel the country to be where they're needed.

Just like we always have to wait for a bomb disposal unit to show up because we don't have one locally nor do we need one.

Just like the police ERT team that is also rotates through out the province and we don't have one locally nor do we need one.
Agreed, just like;
forest fire water bombers.
Some types of blood testing.
Some types of specialty drugs, like anti venom.
Military.
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cv23
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Re: Crane collapse downtown

Post by cv23 »

Anyone here remember what happened when Kelowna's first leaning hi-rise, the Kiwanis Tower, was built?
The Kiwanis Tower does not lean, The Executive House is an entirely different story.
wrote:I wouldn't be surprised now, if a foundation shift beneath the crane slab, was found to be a contributing factor to this tragic collapse.
This tragic accident will likely be found to be the result of human error. The crane foundation didn't shift. The crane was being disassembled and obviously something went wrong during the process.
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spooker
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Re: Crane collapse downtown

Post by spooker »

Even Steven wrote: Jul 14th, 2021, 9:38 am
just_browsing wrote: Jul 14th, 2021, 9:30 am That's absolutely not how it works my friend.
Well, given the number of municipalities in the country with high rises, and only SIX (6) highly specialized rescue teams for the entire country - meaning that all these municipalities don't have one just like Kelowna, you are obviously proven wrong.
I tried to find a crane failure in Vancouver and failed ... they seem to have been lucky yet they have one of the six teams ... but if you look at it that makes sense since it's such a large metropolis with good quick transit times to most everywhere on the west coast ...
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crookedmember
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Re: Crane collapse downtown

Post by crookedmember »

What? (From the leader of the rescue team.)
You are dealing with an unsecured steel structural member of the crane that is teetering on some lightweight wood-truss construction and the operator cab that is teetering on a floor that is partially collapsed.”
I believe this was Stemmer's first high rise project.
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crookedmember
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Re: Crane collapse downtown

Post by crookedmember »

"...crane collapses occur globally on a weekly basis."

per engineer on CTV News last night, most crane incidents are weather related. It's extremely rare for a crane to collapse while being dismantled.
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bornhere63
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Re: Crane collapse downtown

Post by bornhere63 »

Changed my mind and keeping my opinions to myself.
Last edited by bornhere63 on Jul 14th, 2021, 9:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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the truth
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Re: Crane collapse downtown

Post by the truth »

crookedmember wrote: Jul 14th, 2021, 12:10 pm "...crane collapses occur globally on a weekly basis."

per engineer on CTV News last night, most crane incidents are weather related. It's extremely rare for a crane to collapse while being dismantled.
exactly.

well says it all then ,does it not
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the truth
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Re: Crane collapse downtown

Post by the truth »

Trixster wrote: Jul 14th, 2021, 6:50 am I saw the video vacancyrate is referring too and yes it looks as though the one worker isn't wearing any fall restraints. If his family plans on suing they wont get far based on the video.

i can see workers without proper safety gear pretty much on almost every site in this town. its a joke really
as for worksafe bc, this video is all they need to see to give zero payouts, in general they almost always side of the business, worksafe bc is a scam.
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Urban Cowboy
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Re: Crane collapse downtown

Post by Urban Cowboy »

TylerM4 wrote: Jul 14th, 2021, 9:50 am
Even Steven wrote: Jul 14th, 2021, 9:38 am
Well, given the number of municipalities in the country with high rises, and only SIX (6) highly specialized rescue teams for the entire country - meaning that all these municipalities don't have one just like Kelowna, you are obviously proven wrong.
Thanks. Got a real kick out of that post. As you've clearly stated - only 6 cities in all of Canada have this service. Cities MUCH bigger than Kelowna. Someone clearly has no idea what they're talking about.


A whopping total of 1 crane collapse in the entirety of Kelowna's history:
Armchair experts - CoK leadership sucks, they don't know what they're doing, we need a specialized rescue team, etc.
Cok - OK we'll spend millions of dollars annually in case it happens again someday simply to avoid a couple of days delay bringing in a specialized team from out of city.
Armchair experts at tax season - CoK leadership sucks, they're spending money like it's going to expire and can't control costs.
:up: :up: :up:

Just can't win with some people.
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nucksRnum1
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Re: Crane collapse downtown

Post by nucksRnum1 »

TylerM4 wrote: Jul 14th, 2021, 8:22 amAll I said is that crane collapses happen frequently and it's unlikely that investigations in Kelowna will uncover some great new understanding or finding or safety protocol(s).
I agree with you 110 percent about examining and making protocols much better. If I misunderstood an impression of a "tone" by you and it was misrepresented in your opinion - I apologize.

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