Canada's Neoliberal Transformation

[fluffy]

Right-wingers tend to be less intelligent than left-wingers...

There's some thin ice there. It's not exactly fair to say right wingers are less intelligent, there are plenty of smart right wingers. But studies have shown that less intelligent people do tend to hold conservative views. Sort of a chicken/egg thing. :)

[Ka-El]

Right-wingers tend to be less intelligent than left-wingers...

There's some thin ice there. It's not exactly fair to say right wingers are less intelligent, there are plenty of smart right wingers. But studies have shown that less intelligent people do tend to hold conservative views. Sort of a chicken/egg thing. :)

Indeed. These studies suggest that, in general, this is what we can expect to find. It's like trying to suggest that, in general, only conservative thinkers have the ability to apply prudence or sober second thought to their thinking. I think we both recognize there are no absolutes here, and I think what we are saying is that, in general, people's views are shifting left.

[rustled]

The pandemic has pulled back the curtain on some basic inequities in the way we do things, and like it or not a shift to the left is needed to put things back on track. I'm not talking full scale socialism, but certainly "less capitalist" is in order, enough to put us a step or two away from the predatory nature of our current level of capitalism.

Are You a Victim of Predatory Capitalism?

Trusting your employer or service provider can carry a high price.On the other hand, capitalism—and competition—is regularly extolled as bringing out the best in us. It prods us to be more productive and remunerates our efforts accordingly. At least, capitalism at its best does that.

But in this country today, we seem to have drifted toward a mutant (cancerous?) form of capitalism, or free enterprise. One that's under-regulated, dysregulated—or both. One that's all too likely to reward those who excel not in generating useful products or fertile ideas, but rather in manipulating and deceiving the populace for personal gain. One that enables cold-blooded individualists to craftily “work” the system to their economic advantage (loopholes, anyone?). These relentless opportunists—or corporations—frequently prevent others from succeeding through hard work, diligence, and perseverance. In other words, the American Way (not to mention the American Dream) has become increasingly perverted.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog ... capitalism

Sorry, this one just made me laugh - scary scenarios and dramatic statements to sell an agenda.

The author uses classic victim/oppressor ideology and the usual emotional manipulations to exploit the gullible. So it's more than a little amusing to see the author attempt to savage capitalism for "manipulating and deceiving the populace" while manipulating and deceiving his readers.

It would be quite naïve of us to believe relentless opportunism is exploited by capitalists, but not those with an agenda of opposing capitalism.

The antidote to being taken advantage of is to think critically about all of these concepts and ideologies, and to be aware of who is peddling what - and why. IMO.

[liisgo]

But in this country today, we seem to have drifted toward a mutant (cancerous?) form of capitalism, or free enterprise. One that's under-regulated, dysregulated—or both. One that's all too likely to reward those who excel not in generating useful products or fertile ideas, but rather in manipulating and deceiving the populace for personal gain. One that enables cold-blooded individualists to craftily “work” the system to their economic advantage (loopholes, anyone?). These relentless opportunists—or corporations—frequently prevent others from succeeding through hard work, diligence, and perseverance. In other words, the American Way (not to mention the American Dream) has become increasingly perverted.[/i]

https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog ... capitalism

OMG, you just nailed the current lefts political and social being in this country.
Cold blooded, individualists and groups with crafty manipulation of our current weak, social, victim hood enviroment.
This is so directly supporting our countries failure.
The have not's, the victim group's have found a way to take advantage of the rest of us, instead of actually self achieving.
Self merit, accomplishment, achievement, survival is out the window now.
Replaced with "poor me", help me, give to me, I was in the wrong line up and got shafted.
What a disgrace and a horrible attempt at this lefts perpetual propaganda victim hood campaign.
You realize that in todays system, their has never been such a vast improvement to any of the past's abilities and manipulation available to "Crafty" people wanting to take advantage?
The only "crafty" disgusting manipulation and deceit we see playing out today for personal gain is that of every single of today's vast victim hood membership. Prove me wrong, outside of promoting ones own needed belief.

[d0nb]

The pandemic has pulled back the curtain on some basic inequities in the way we do things, and like it or not a shift to the left is needed to put things back on track. I'm not talking full scale socialism, but certainly "less capitalist" is in order, enough to put us a step or two away from the predatory nature of our current level of capitalism.

Are You a Victim of Predatory Capitalism?

Trusting your employer or service provider can carry a high price.On the other hand, capitalism—and competition—is regularly extolled as bringing out the best in us. It prods us to be more productive and remunerates our efforts accordingly. At least, capitalism at its best does that.

But in this country today, we seem to have drifted toward a mutant (cancerous?) form of capitalism, or free enterprise. One that's under-regulated, dysregulated—or both. One that's all too likely to reward those who excel not in generating useful products or fertile ideas, but rather in manipulating and deceiving the populace for personal gain. One that enables cold-blooded individualists to craftily “work” the system to their economic advantage (loopholes, anyone?). These relentless opportunists—or corporations—frequently prevent others from succeeding through hard work, diligence, and perseverance. In other words, the American Way (not to mention the American Dream) has become increasingly perverted.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog ... capitalism

Sorry, this one just made me laugh - scary scenarios and dramatic statements to sell an agenda.

The author uses classic victim/oppressor ideology and the usual emotional manipulations to exploit the gullible. So it's more than a little amusing to see the author attempt to savage capitalism for "manipulating and deceiving the populace" while manipulating and deceiving his readers.

It would be quite naïve of us to believe relentless opportunism is exploited by capitalists, but not those with an agenda of opposing capitalism.

The antidote to being taken advantage of is to think critically about all of these concepts and ideologies, and to be aware of who is peddling what - and why. IMO.

People who self-identify as neo-liberals are a rarity,as the term has become a pejorative, a label to be attached to those whose views we want to discredit. Some on the left and right like to use the label on politicians like Reagan and Thatcher, but aside from making some really bad trade international trade deals, neither of them really deserves to be called a neo-liberal, and it is highly unlikely that either would have used the term to describe their political philosophy.

As with socialism, capitalism or any other ism, whether you are a fan of neo-liberalism mostly depends on your personal interpretation of what it is.

Marc David Loeb is a real cheerleader. According to his interpretation, “Neoliberalism has done the most good for the most people of any economic system in human history.” https://medium.com/@marcdloeb/neolibera ... 9bd91eda4c

Marc also shares his rather unique view of libertarianism: “What separates neoliberals from libertarians is that neoliberals recognize that markets sometimes fail when left completely unsupervised. Anti-trust regulations are needed to maintain competition and protect consumers.”

Utter nonsense of course. By their very nature, libertarians believe in the supervisory role of governments. According to the libertarian founders of the US, it is the raison d'être of good government.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.

Libertarians believe that the primary role of government is to safeguard the rights of the individual. That means empowering government to protect us from being injured by the irresponsible acts of others; hence, environmental protection regulations, anti-trust legislation and other laws and regs needed to protect the rights of individuals and the environment we share with other living creatures.

[fluffy]

I'm bringing this link from another thread because it is so relevant to the topic of this thread. The speaker, US entrepreneur and venture capitalist Nick Hanauer speaks directly and eloquently to the point that the neo-liberal economic policy we currently operate under is a sham, and that the way ahead is not anti-capitalism, but simply a better form of capitalism, one that respects all stakeholders including employees, suppliers, customers and communities, and not just CEOs and shareholders. It's a seventeen minute listen if you include the Q&A section at the end.

https://youtu.be/th3KE_H27bs

[rustled]

I'm bringing this link from another thread because it is so relevant to the topic of this thread. The speaker, US entrepreneur and venture capitalist Nick Hanauer speaks directly and eloquently to the point that the neo-liberal economic policy we currently operate under is a sham, and that the way ahead is not anti-capitalism, but simply a better form of capitalism, one that respects all stakeholders including employees, suppliers, customers and communities, and not just CEOs and shareholders. It's a seventeen minute listen if you include the Q&A section at the end.

https://youtu.be/th3KE_H27bs

His objective is to convince people to support the power shift he is funding, while ignoring the consequences.

First he paints our current economic system in the harshest possible negative terms, to suggest the choice we should make is between the worst possible iteration of capitalism and what he's proposing - which is helping powerful corporations like his buy more control over government.

And as I said in the other thread, he's not even telling the truth about how the $15 wage "they" cooked up for Seattle actually panned out:.
viewtopic.php?p=2854969#p2854969

Several of the commenters in the video saw what he was doing.

[The Green Barbarian]

I'm bringing this link from another thread because it is so relevant to the topic of this thread. The speaker, US entrepreneur and venture capitalist Nick Hanauer speaks directly and eloquently to the point that the neo-liberal economic policy we currently operate under is a sham, and that the way ahead is not anti-capitalism, but simply a better form of capitalism, one that respects all stakeholders including employees, suppliers, customers and communities, and not just CEOs and shareholders. It's a seventeen minute listen if you include the Q&A section at the end.

https://youtu.be/th3KE_H27bs

Thanks for posting this, purely so that we have examples of con-artists like this guy to gauge our opinions and protect ourselves from being turned into marks and gullible fools believing in the garbage this guy is spewing. It's important though to hear out totally awful people like this guy though just to ensure that you can recognize the scams and govern yourself accordingly. Thank you!

[fluffy]

First he paints our current economic system in the harshest possible negative terms, to suggest the choice we should make is between the worst possible iteration of capitalism and what he's proposing - which is helping powerful corporations like his buy more control over government.

I got none of that from his talk, and having done some research into the progress and effects of neo-liberalism found him to be spot on. He suggests a shift from the current predatory form of capitalism to a more widely beneficial stakeholder capitalism would lead to a better future for all, and not just the few at the top of the food chain. I've been saying this for some time now, and I'm no billionaire.

[rustled]

First he paints our current economic system in the harshest possible negative terms, to suggest the choice we should make is between the worst possible iteration of capitalism and what he's proposing - which is helping powerful corporations like his buy more control over government.

I got none of that from his talk, and having done some research into the progress and effects of neo-liberalism found him to be spot on.

It seems to me what he was saying was what you prefer to believe. It aligns with all the negative talking points you've shared about capitalism and corporations. So your personal responses to his TED talk make perfect sense.

He suggests a shift from the current predatory form of capitalism to a more widely beneficial stakeholder capitalism would lead to a better future for all, and not just the few at the top of the food chain. I've been saying this for some time now, and I'm no billionaire.

Yes, what he is saying aligns perfectly with what you've been saying, as is to be expected. That was his objective.

What he was doing during his talk, as he made plain at the end, also aligns perfectly with what I've been saying: His objective is to use the narrative he paid to create to convince people to support the power shift he is funding, a power shift that puts more power in the government he pays to create laws.

He prefers we ignore the consequences (which is why he says the $15 they "cooked up" for Seattle was "better", knowing that wasn't the truth.

He also prefers you don't think too hard about the consequences of giving incredibly wealthy people our permission for them to control what laws the government enacts.

My first post in this thread was a suggestion for people to get a more rounded, broader view of neoliberalism than the one being offered in this thread: viewtopic.php?p=2845727#p2845727

It seems to me some folk are resistant to broadening their understanding, which IMO limits our ability to see when a smooth talker is pitching a skewed narrative to gain support for his agenda.

[The Green Barbarian]

It seems to me some folk are resistant to broadening their understanding, which IMO limits our ability to see when a smooth talker is pitching a skewed narrative to gain support for his agenda.

Nailed it Rustled!

[nucksRnum1]

Maybe some people will enjoy this gem
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJy8vTu ... ex=5&t=15s[/youtube]

[The Green Barbarian]

Maybe some people will enjoy this gem
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJy8vTu ... ex=5&t=15s[/youtube]

Lessig says that this fundamental breakdown of the democratic system must be fixed before we will ever be able to address major challenges like climate change, social security, and student debt.

I guess "social security" could be an issue, the other two "major challenges" aren't really challenges, major or otherwise. To sum up - let's invent a fake narrative, and sell that fake narrative via the lens that if we don't make the changes as per the fake narrative, then we'll never have a chance to solve these fake problems that never existed in the first place. Quite the twisted web there of fibs, lies, and total fantasy woven to sell a giant load of garbage.

[nucksRnum1]

Hopefully we never get to a place in Canada in which we have outside forces squash deocracy like this man saw in Greece.

[fluffy]

It seems to me some folk are resistant to broadening their understanding, which IMO limits our ability to see when a smooth talker is pitching a skewed narrative to gain support for his agenda.

While I see folks who do have a broad understanding about the current state of things, yet pitch a narrative that change is dangerous, and that altering the status quo to spread the benefits of a free market economy to more than just a very few is some sort of nefarious plot to deconstruct society in its entirety.

In relation to Mr. Hanauer's talk, what do you see as his "agenda"?