Crane collapse downtown

[just_browsing]

I'll stand tall on this one and shut you down. That's absolutely not how it works my friend.

Kelowna is relying on the rest of the world/country for absolutely everything. To people like yourself who rely on others to do all your dirty work, this seems normal and OK.

To anyone that has spent a career in any type of labor or emergency services knows the real story. It is extending so far now that we can't even rescue our own citizens due to the technical nature of how the city is building and the lack of personnel.

I suppose when one of these buildings collapses, we will call in the crew from Miami who are already trained.

I suppose when one catches fire, we will call on the other communities to help.

If you pay attention to the news, West Kelowna can't build highrises because of the cost of equipment and training for their firefighters.

Yet our city managers, and many many other white shirts are telling us that we will call on the Westside Fire Department, who is untrained in high rise firefighting (as per Chief Brolund) to help??

We are calling on the rest of the world to help us when we can't even tie our own shoes.

At what point are the speculators and capitalists going to wake up and realize that there is a life outside of money...there is a life outside of growth.

I'm not saying this would change ANYTHING on the outcome of this event but I'll leave you with this.

Is it fair that we are all paying the same, if not more, insurance rates as other cities who have all the protections in place and has trained staff ready to respond?

I don't feel it is, but money aside, I only care that the people that go to work to serve an employer and come home alive. I only care about the safety of the people in this city. I don't care if someone doesn't make enough to take their family on a nice vacation.

However, after much reading on these forums over the years, it's clear that I stand differently than many on this forum. So many keep pushing people like myself aside for the excuse of "the future" or "growth".

An elderly lady stood at the sidewalk on St. Paul the day after the accident. She looked devastated, as all of us are. But the words she spoke rung so true.

"Are they done yet? Why are we building these when no one here wants them? Now at the expense of lives lost."

I know it could happen anywhere and on any job site in the world. However, I feel it's time to take a check at yourselves and ask yourself if this is what you really want.

Do you really want highrises? If so, ask yourself for what. For what reason are we doing this to Kelowna. Is it only for looks? Are we sacrificing lives for looks?

I can tell you one thing..it's definitely not bringing families here and it's definitely not providing affordable living.

Again, my condolences to all those involved. Nothing is more tragic than this...nothing.

Just wait till the sinkholes start appearing amidst this cluster of erections being built by competing rich kids, who are constantly twisting the arms of city council, to build ever higher. This hi-rise building idiocy will become especially problematic if the lake levels drop in our new climate paradigm.

These concrete behemoths are being built here on pile cap foundations, on what is essentially sandy, glacial till swampland, similar to how most of Florida's swampy urban centers were built up.

I wouldn't be surprised now, if a foundation shift beneath the crane slab, was found to be a contributing factor to this tragic collapse.

We're only one moderate earthquake away from seeing these buildings bend flaccidly over each other due to liquefaction.

I can only imagine what the insurance rates will be in the future. Who will be held responsible then??

Anyone here remember what happened when Kelowna's first leaning hi-rise, the Kiwanis Tower, was built? The engineers then, also thought they knew what they were doing.

Today you can't find any information on that engineering problem, due to the information being buried by those with "$kin" in the developer game, and who are painting these new projects in all shades of $un$hine and $mile$...

My prediction is, that at some point no external specialized Urban Rescue Team will be able to save the day for us.

Not all development equates to progress...

This is the best post I've ever read on here. Also the most educated and rational.

All the rich spoiled kids, Capitalists, have zero, and I mean zero clue on how things operate on a municipal level.

So when they start building these highrises, did they happen to mention to any of the crews that the nearest rescue crew for this type of ongoing construction is a day away?

Did they mention to all the businesses underneath that there was extreme death hazards dangling right above them?

This particular tower has already cracked numerous existing buildings next door, shattered glass and other objects while they were putting in the piles. Not once did they mention this would happen during the construction phase. Even if they did mention it, they will just roll their eyes and ignore you because some feel this is necessary for the development of Kelowna.

So, all you experts that have been employed for a career with the city of Kelowna, me being one, tell me why they had to change technologies to put the new piles in the ground for the new tower. I can guarantee you it wasn't because they were concerned with the noise factor. The ground is different here. So different that they had to change technologies from the norm because the old technology is somehow damaging buildings. Off topic I know, but I have so many of these things I can share.

Unfortunately if you look on these forums and see much of the regular posters, you will quickly learn they are likely working for these rich spoiled capitalist children.

Have I ever mentioned that Kelowna only has 23 firefighters on duty in the entire city?! The NFPA, which is respected in absolutely everything to do with safety, recommends 100 trained firefighters to deal with a high-rise. To accomodate the smaller growing municipalities, they drew a line in the sand and said the absolute minimum is 43 within 600 seconds.

Why is it that this particular NFPA code is ignored and shut down by anyone pro towers? Did Kelowna find something that no one else in the world has ever figured out?

All you people should be ashamed for assuming we have to provide housing for everyone that wants to move here. I say get out...we don't want anymore people. We can't afford it and we can't guarantee your safety. Period.

This building is a curse and I hope no one buys into it and it becomes a memorial for these poor workers and families.

[two_shoes1mit]

This is the best post I've ever read on here. Also the most educated and rational.

All the rich spoiled kids, Capitalists, have zero, and I mean zero clue on how things operate on a municipal level.

So when they start building these highrises, did they happen to mention to any of the crews that the nearest rescue crew for this type of ongoing construction is a day away?

Did they mention to all the businesses underneath that there was extreme death hazards dangling right above them?

This particular tower has already cracked numerous existing buildings next door, shattered glass and other objects while they were putting in the piles. Not once did they mention this would happen during the construction phase. Even if they did mention it, they will just roll their eyes and ignore you because some feel this is necessary for the development of Kelowna.

So, all you experts that have been employed for a career with the city of Kelowna, me being one, tell me why they had to change technologies to put the new piles in the ground for the new tower. I can guarantee you it wasn't because they were concerned with the noise factor. The ground is different here. So different that they had to change technologies from the norm because the old technology is somehow damaging buildings. Off topic I know, but I have so many of these things I can share.

Unfortunately if you look on these forums and see much of the regular posters, you will quickly learn they are likely working for these rich spoiled capitalist children.

Have I ever mentioned that Kelowna only has 23 firefighters on duty in the entire city?! The NFPA, which is respected in absolutely everything to do with safety, recommends 100 trained firefighters to deal with a high-rise. To accomodate the smaller growing municipalities, they drew a line in the sand and said the absolute minimum is 43 within 600 seconds.

Why is it that this particular NFPA code is ignored and shut down by anyone pro towers? Did Kelowna find something that no one else in the world has ever figured out?

All you people should be ashamed for assuming we have to provide housing for everyone that wants to move here. I say get out...we don't want anymore people. We can't afford it and we can't guarantee your safety. Period.

This building is a curse and I hope no one buys into it and it becomes a memorial for these poor workers and families.

Excellent post.

I miss the 'like button.'

Its time to STOP building these high rises....................we don't want them and we don't want anymore.
If this tragedy isn't reason enough...............I don't know what it will take.

Kelowna traffic congestion is a nightmare...........never being addressed. We can't accomodate more people, and this city is not about housing the rich, nor about mega contractors buying their way in.

Lets take a breather, grieve the lost individuals and come up with another plan.

To quote a previous post: "ARE THEY DONE YET?"

[one wheel]

Are people aware that the Bertram St. condo which is evacuated has had no power since the crane fell ?
That place has about 60 units, I couldn't imagine the stench from the fridge's / freezers in this heat or what might have leaked out onto the floors & carpets ?
No one can get access to their vehicle either ? The residents are staying in hotels & haven't heard when they might be allowed to return ?

[Urban Cowboy]

@just_browsing - I hope you plan on selling your car then, since they are nothing but a curse in many cases as well.

You also come across as someone who can't accept growth, yet work for the people who are charged with managing it. That's rich.

I'm not really aware of any places that cap growth by locking the gates so to speak. Do you have some examples to provide?

[Terris]

Ditto...

I was first informed about the potential for high rise foundation problems here over 10 years ago by a cousin who works as an inspector for Stantec and friend who owned a local HVAC company.

At that time my friend was installing GPS monitors onto some downtown buildings; and regularly mentioned how much the buildings then, could be seen seasonally moving out of alignment on temporal data gathered over a year. I'm sure the city engineers are aware of this, and will have a hard time coming up with excuses should something even more calamitous occurs here.

The firefighting issue itself is an indication of how local council has chosen to play a long game dice with the developer$.



Probably of greatest future concern, is the issue of building displacement, as more and more of these concrete mountains are being built side by side on swamp land...

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1007/BF02826755

In my opinion, it's just a matter of time before this crane collapse tragedy will pale in comparison to an entire building or 2 collapsing here, just as has recently happened in Florida.

It's already clear that, the surrounding soils around this site were already disturbed to the point of displacing and damaging surrounding buildings during construction. Can't wait to see what happens with the old, derelict Willow Inn site.

Keep rolling those bones city council...

https://www.bing.com/th/id/OGC.c8820b27 ... GXbtmZM%3d

[zookeeper]

My eyes keep being drawn to the upward angle of the second (from the ground) brace, the first one is horizontal.

[just popping in]

A very thoughtful tribute.

https://www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna/3 ... wna#340298

[ferri]

Crane evacuation remains

https://www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna/3 ... ing#340340

[normaM]

I'd not be buying close to a crane, nor would I sleep easy if I was in such a building
Until the official report is in probably best we keep our opinions to ourselves and fam/friends
Where the heck are all the people evac. staying? Not a hotel room to get :(

[Scrobins94]

Mission Group's last social media post was 5 days ago.

So silent...

I wonder where Randy Shier, Jon Friesen, Luke Turri are hiding.

[the truth]

Ditto...

I was first informed about the potential for high rise foundation problems here over 10 years ago by a cousin who works as an inspector for Stantec and friend who owned a local HVAC company.

At that time my friend was installing GPS monitors onto some downtown buildings; and regularly mentioned how much the buildings then, could be seen seasonally moving out of alignment on temporal data gathered over a year. I'm sure the city engineers are aware of this, and will have a hard time coming up with excuses should something even more calamitous occurs here.

The firefighting issue itself is an indication of how local council has chosen to play a long game dice with the developer$.



Probably of greatest future concern, is the issue of building displacement, as more and more of these concrete mountains are being built side by side on swamp land...

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1007/BF02826755

In my opinion, it's just a matter of time before this crane collapse tragedy will pale in comparison to an entire building or 2 collapsing here, just as has recently happened in Florida.

It's already clear that, the surrounding soils around this site were already disturbed to the point of displacing and damaging surrounding buildings during construction. Can't wait to see what happens with the old, derelict Willow Inn site.

Keep rolling those bones city council...

https://www.bing.com/th/id/OGC.c8820b27 ... GXbtmZM%3d

excellent post and o so true, so certain people can cover their backs . what is going on in this town is building condo$ as fast as possible for big $$$$$$$ and who cares about safety .

[Boosted632]

Lol some of the posts on here are to much are you guys serious? So many highrise experts on here now we have entire buildings that might fall down and everythings being done unsafe just to funny, oh and my personal favorite we dont want these buildings or anymore people here

[Sonny Taylor]

[snip]
Probably of greatest future concern, is the issue of building displacement, as more and more of these concrete mountains are being built side by side on swamp land...

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1007/BF02826755

In my opinion, it's just a matter of time before this crane collapse tragedy will pale in comparison to an entire building or 2 collapsing here, just as has recently happened in Florida.
[/snip]

I don't mean to ridicule you; I guess you have a point and I presume you have a deep understanding of the contents of the paper in your link.

But I suspect that most of us will have trouble with sentences like this:

On the basis of Delaunay triangulation skeleton, this study presents the partitioning model, which is similar to the Voronoi diagram. The property of equally separating space makes it a powerful tool to analyze the distri-
bution within polygon cluster. A displacement field is constructed in which the displacement propagation (including decay) can be realized. How to apply the Gestalt principle to the pattern recognition of building cluster is our next research.


For the computation of offset distance, we define a decay function related to the adjacency degree:r as f(:r) = c -- kx. It implies the higher adjacency degree leads to the shorter offset distance. This function is the simplest one as of the linear type. The function can also be of another form according to the decay speed along the change of adjacency degree. This function corresponds to the grade concept in the field.

So to lighten up the discussion, I'll (hopefully not at your expense) inject a bit of humour if I may:

The fictional Retro Encabulator device, which uses six hydrocoptic marzel vanes and an ambifacient lunar wane shaft to prevent unwanted side fumbling.

[normaM]

I did not know other buildings had been damaged before the collapse
No power to 60 units? There will be a mess to clean when they can finally go back :(
I did not expect Mission Group to say anything further

Have noticed several houses in my neighbourhood set up Hi Vis tributes.

[Rejigger]

Mission Group's last social media post was 5 days ago.

So silent...

I wonder where Randy Shier, Jon Friesen, Luke Turri are hiding.

I don't know why you characterize this as 'silence' and "hiding". No one would expect MG to 'carry on business as usual', and they've already given their statement. It doesn't matter what they are or aren't doing for Joe Q Public, it's what they're doing for the families of those affected that counts. And we don't know what that is because they're still going through the process of sorting that out (read: working through the legalities - which is their right, and is to be expected). Plus, the idea that we need to be kept informed of the current inner-workings of this private company is absurd.

I know all the Negative Nellies on this board are thinking that the people at Mission Group and Stemmer Construction are horrible, but I'll reserve judgement until the dust clears. Let's put a pin in it and circle back in a year or two, m'kay? =P