Crane collapse downtown

[Ranger67]

You can be assured that the various Engineering Depts. (Geo Tec, Structural, Mec.) and any of the others that feel the need to comment have been engaged and given legally binding opinions on all aspects of the construction of any tower anywhere in Canada. All the seismic activity (construction activity) has been planned and reviewed. Have people made mistakes? Sure but everyone does not make the same mistake and Kelowna is not going to slide into the lake. Cranes can and have been assembled and taken down hundreds of times without a problem except for human related issues.

[Terris]

You can be assured that the various Engineering Depts. (Geo Tec, Structural, Mec.) and any of the others that feel the need to comment have been engaged and given legally binding opinions on all aspects of the construction of any tower anywhere in Canada. All the seismic activity (construction activity) has been planned and reviewed. Have people made mistakes? Sure but everyone does not make the same mistake and Kelowna is not going to slide into the lake. Cranes can and have been assembled and taken down hundreds of times without a problem except for human related issues.

You can also be assured that, any geodata collected, is currently locked down tight.

As was mentioned above, by another poster, the particular cap pile engineering "technique" being used here to build these monoliths on Kelowna swampland, is somewhat unique to the conditions here.

Most, if not all, of these building are not anchored directly to a hard stratum, and are virtually floating on wooden piles sunk through a water table that extends across Kelowna.

There are volumes written about mistakes made by engineers, who also thought they had the solutions.

Might be worth revisiting this topic after a few years of dropping lake and water table levels; or heaven forbid, a moderate earthquake...

http://www.civildailyinfo.com/img/engin ... dation.jpg

[Boosted632]

You can be assured that the various Engineering Depts. (Geo Tec, Structural, Mec.) and any of the others that feel the need to comment have been engaged and given legally binding opinions on all aspects of the construction of any tower anywhere in Canada. All the seismic activity (construction activity) has been planned and reviewed. Have people made mistakes? Sure but everyone does not make the same mistake and Kelowna is not going to slide into the lake. Cranes can and have been assembled and taken down hundreds of times without a problem except for human related issues.

You can also be assured that, any geodata collected, is currently locked down tight.

As was mentioned above, by another poster, the particular cap pile engineering "technique" being used here to build these monoliths on Kelowna swampland, is somewhat. unique to the conditions here.

Most, if not all, of these building are not anchored directly to a hard stratum, and are virtually floating on wooden piles sunk through a water table that extends across Kelowna.

There are volumes written about mistakes made by engineers, who also thought they had the solutions.

Might be worth revisiting this topic after a few years of dropping lake and water table levels; or heaven forbid, a moderate earthquake...

http://www.civildailyinfo.com/img/engin ... dation.jpg

Unique conditions here are you kidding? have you never left kelowna before? Never gone to the coast? Or any other coastal city, theres nothing unique about conditions here that make it anymore challenging than other parts of the world.

[parks101]

Just curious…what towers are built on wooden piles?

[featfan]

Sopa for one.

[Boosted632]

Sopa for one.

I seriously doubt that

[TylerM4]

I did the plumbing apprenticeship. Problem working for companies in town. None of the journeymen want to teach. None of the companies want to lose
Good workers to school. I was a 2nd year for almost 5 years. I watched a lot come through and only be allowed to do one task. Drill holes. No touching or running any pipe. Until a 3rd or competent 4th year. Ita is a joke.

Well recognized in any trades program that the apprentices get the worst jobs. They consider it "paying your dues". Every journeyman you came across had to go through the same thing themselves. Apprentices are there to make the company money 1st - It's not a charity operation and teaching isn't their job or priority despite what the schools tell you. It's not that they don't want to lose them to school. It's the simple fact that apprentices are flighty as all heck. No company is going to invest in a lot of training for a 1st or 2nd year apprentice who very likely will not end up working for them after graduation. MANY apprentices attend a trades program in the Okanagan, do their apprenticing in the Okanagan - and as soon as they get their journeyman ticket they head up north or elsewhere chasing the big bucks. I don't blame these companies one bit for being reluctant to invest in an apprentice when there's a good chance that investment will go on to benefit some other company.

Honestly - it sounds to me like your expectations weren't rooted in reality.

[stuphoto]

We all know the saying
goes downhill and payday is on Friday.

My personal version is
goes downhill and you ststart at the bottom.
Referring to every new plumber starts at the bottom of the pile.

The same concept works with all trades unless you have a coloured nose from day one.

[nucksRnum1]

I did the plumbing apprenticeship. Problem working for companies in town. None of the journeymen want to teach. None of the companies want to lose
Good workers to school. I was a 2nd year for almost 5 years. I watched a lot come through and only be allowed to do one task. Drill holes. No touching or running any pipe. Until a 3rd or competent 4th year. Ita is a joke.

Well recognized in any trades program that the apprentices get the worst jobs. They consider it "paying your dues". Every journeyman you came across had to go through the same thing themselves. Apprentices are there to make the company money 1st - It's not a charity operation and teaching isn't their job or priority despite what the schools tell you. It's not that they don't want to lose them to school. It's the simple fact that apprentices are flighty as all heck. No company is going to invest in a lot of training for a 1st or 2nd year apprentice who very likely will not end up working for them after graduation. MANY apprentices attend a trades program in the Okanagan, do their apprenticing in the Okanagan - and as soon as they get their journeyman ticket they head up north or elsewhere chasing the big bucks. I don't blame these companies one bit for being reluctant to invest in an apprentice when there's a good chance that investment will go on to benefit some other company.

Honestly - it sounds to me like your expectations weren't rooted in reality.

Its time to go back to unions where training was deemed valuable

[featfan]

Sopa for one.

I seriously doubt that

I watched them pounding the trees in the ground.
Do not care if you believe me or not.

[cv23]

Its time to go back to unions where training was deemed valuable

Sadly unionized labor is longer a guarantee of anything, except possible labor unrest.
Training is done by colleges and trade schools not unions. Safety is taught and enforced by the government (Worksafe) not unions.

[cv23]

I watched them pounding the trees in the ground.
Do not care if you believe me or not.

You may have watched things (steel columns) pounded in the ground but guaranteed it wasn't trees. Lumber of the size and grade required for foundation columns to be pounded into the ground is far to valuable to be used simply to rot underground and steel is more readily available, stronger, doesn't rot is also far cheaper. Developers are all about saving money not spending it so when it comes to foundation columns steel is the material of choice and has been for decades.

[TylerM4]

Its time to go back to unions where training was deemed valuable

I suspect you're not speaking from a position of experience or knowledge here. There are a lot of unionized tradesmen out there. No different for them. In fact - unionized employers are a big part of the problem. Most unionized shops simply don't bring in apprentices at all.

I have a lot of experience working in unionized environments. Never seen them advocate for additional training unless they're trying to force additional pay at the same time. What I have seen them do is actively fight AGAINST things like additional certifications/training. Trying to bring in a student to complete a co-op work term is darn near impossible in a unionized environment with a few specific exceptions (healthcare/nursing comes to mind).

[TylerM4]

You may have watched things (steel columns) pounded in the ground but guaranteed it wasn't trees. Lumber of the size and grade required for foundation columns to be pounded into the ground is far to valuable to be used simply to rot underground and steel is more readily available, stronger, doesn't rot is also far cheaper. Developers are all about saving money not spending it so when it comes to foundation columns steel is the material of choice and has been for decades.

Yup. Anyone with experience in construction industry will immediately understand how unlikely that scenario is.

To take it a step further. Organic material of any kind is expressly NOT ALLOWED under a foundation. Inspectors look for any evidence of such and won't pass a site if it's seen. You can't so much as build a garage on top of a tree root much less a tower on an entire tree.

[Tankur]

I did the plumbing apprenticeship. Problem working for companies in town. None of the journeymen want to teach. None of the companies want to lose
Good workers to school. I was a 2nd year for almost 5 years. I watched a lot come through and only be allowed to do one task. Drill holes. No touching or running any pipe. Until a 3rd or competent 4th year. Ita is a joke.

Well recognized in any trades program that the apprentices get the worst jobs. They consider it "paying your dues". Every journeyman you came across had to go through the same thing themselves. Apprentices are there to make the company money 1st - It's not a charity operation and teaching isn't their job or priority despite what the schools tell you. It's not that they don't want to lose them to school. It's the simple fact that apprentices are flighty as all heck. No company is going to invest in a lot of training for a 1st or 2nd year apprentice who very likely will not end up working for them after graduation. MANY apprentices attend a trades program in the Okanagan, do their apprenticing in the Okanagan - and as soon as they get their journeyman ticket they head up north or elsewhere chasing the big bucks. I don't blame these companies one bit for being reluctant to invest in an apprentice when there's a good chance that investment will go on to benefit some other company.

Honestly - it sounds to me like your expectations weren't rooted in reality.

My expectations after starting an apprenticeship, we’re to be a confident journeyman at the end. Nothing else but that. Trades programs are not set up for that. 1st and 2nd years do not make the company any money what so ever. I feel as if you know nothing on the subject. If you would like I can give you the rundown.