Irreversible Damage: The Transgender Craze Seducing Our Daughters

[GordonH]

I find it incredibly wrong for a doctor/surgeon to be performing this procedure on a child, period... no ifs buts or maybes about it.

Yet bill C-6 would make it a crime to not provide gender-affirming care.

Why would this be in the Citizenship Act

[36Drew]

Why would this be in the Citizenship Act

https://parl.ca/DocumentViewer/en/43-2/ ... rd-reading

An Act to amend the Criminal Code (conversion therapy)

[Jlabute]

There is no end to the tragic regret of young trans people. It usually begins with a vague feeling, enquiries, affirmation, acceptance, then seduction towards changing. A change of such magnitude shouldn't begin with dysphoria or confusion, but assertive thinking. Unfortunately, there is a lack of literature to help those who regret transitioning which is thousands of young people and growing. Transitioning rarely solves feelings of dysphoria. Despite what-ever you change to, your DNA will catch up.

This is a story of a 16yo young lady who regretted taking male hormones. At age 24 and in university she was labelled a detransitioner and was angry at the people who pushed her so forcibly towards transitioning. She was too young to realize that she was actually lesbian. Her 'inclusive LGBTQ community' ostracized this needy young woman over her decision to detransition. You wonder if support is borne of political or tribal warfare. Trans-activists do not seem to understand detrans people and consider it an attack on the LGBQ community. In this instance, clearer reasoning prevailed at an age above 20.


https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/i- ... -decisions


https://www.news-medical.net/news/20191 ... ivist.aspx

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/ ... 894076002/

[36Drew]

Unfortunately, there is a lack of literature to help those who regret transitioning which is thousands of young people and growing. Transitioning rarely solves feelings of dysphoria. Despite what-ever you change to, your DNA will catch up.

Worse than "lack of literature" is the "lack of study" of giving young girls experimental drugs (namely Lupron) to "block" puberty. Those pushing it (our own government - http://www.phsa.ca/transcarebc/child-yo ... -for-youth) often market it as a "delaying puberty" - but it's not really a delay. The human body won't magically start the puberty process four or five years later.

We are medicalizing young kids. Not even mid-teens. Young kids. This use of Lupron is off-lable (it's used to fight prostate and uterine cancers) and not at all recommended by the manufacturer. it's known to have nasty side-effects (https://www.statnews.com/2017/02/02/lup ... -problems/). Our society is allowing our medical establishment to medicalize kids as young as 8 in canada, without parental involvement. If you - as a parent - try to interfere in any way, you risk being prosecuted.

That's what "Irreversable Damage" is about. Should read and learn a thing or two. The now-defunct aforementioned bill C-6 would thrust this level of "Gender Affirming Care" upon us. Unfortunately, it is certain to return next parliament.

[TylerM4]

I find it incredibly wrong for a doctor/surgeon to be performing this procedure on a child, period... no ifs buts or maybes about it.

But here's the deal - for many of those who truly suffer, gender re-assignment has been a life saver. The earlier the better in this case.

The problem - Children being sure about a lifetime decision. Especially when influenced by media.

This is when you need more than a doctor, psychologists should be involved.

[Chamboknows]

I scanned all the comments and didn't see any from a trans young person, or any one considering or having previously considered this option.
Those are the points of view that would interest me - not those of all these others debating what is best or worst for those in that situation.
The rest of you all have every right to your opinion, I however have no time or interest in entertaining it.

[TylerM4]

I scanned all the comments and didn't see any from a trans young person, or any one considering or having previously considered this option.
Those are the points of view that would interest me - not those of all these others debating what is best or worst for those in that situation.
The rest of you all have every right to your opinion, I however have no time or interest in entertaining it.

Getting their opinion makes sense. Ignoring everyone else's doesn't. It's like asking a 8yo if he/she should be allowed to eat cake for breakfast.

Remember, the topic being debated here is minors making the decision - not whether it's a good/bad decision to make as a young adult. Feedback from non-minors who've made the decision isn't relevant, and anything you do get from a minor would be suspect.

[Ka-El]

But here's the deal - for many of those who truly suffer, gender re-assignment has been a life saver. The earlier the better in this case. The problem - Children being sure about a lifetime decision.

I can appreciate there is likely some truth to the idea "the earlier the better", but I find myself still 100% opposed to allowing a child or a minor to make such a permanently life-altering decision. Such a troubled child would definitely be served by psychological counselling, and getting that support while struggling through their teen years could lead to better decisions as an adult. As already noted this would be very confusing for any young person, but like many things that confused us when we were teenagers, for the most part, that confusion was temporary. Gender reassignment a difficult decision to correct.

[TylerM4]

I can appreciate there is likely some truth to the idea "the earlier the better", but I find myself still 100% opposed to allowing a child or a minor to make such a permanently life-altering decision. Such a troubled child would definitely be served by psychological counselling, and getting that support while struggling through their teen years could lead to better decisions as an adult. As already noted this would be very confusing for any young person, but like many things that confused us when we were teenagers, for the most part, that confusion was temporary. Gender reassignment a difficult decision to correct.

I agree with your sentiment. But at the end of the day - Some kids would really be helped by opening the door to a younger age. Is it really appropriate to deny them that chance "because it might be a mistake for some"?

Hence my thoughts around a psychologist being involved. A psychologist should be able to advise: Does the child have the right motivations? Will the child significantly benefit from doing it now vs waiting until 18? How likely is the child to regret the decision? Etc.

[36Drew]

I scanned all the comments and didn't see any from a trans young person, or any one considering or having previously considered this option.

Just to be clear on what you're saying - you're okay with pre-pubescent children (10 years old), seeking, consenting to, and receiving experimental puberty blockers (Lupron, for example) without any parental guidance or counselling to discover if they're truly suffering from gender dysphoria? You're suggesting a 10-year-old girl is mentally-developed enough to decide that they are truly born in the wrong body, can fully understand all the risks and outcomes of said experimental uses of these drugs, and is capable of consenting to halt puberty development entirely? And you're okay with this?

[Sparki55]

I agree with your sentiment. But at the end of the day - Some kids would really be helped by opening the door to a younger age. Is it really appropriate to deny them that chance "because it might be a mistake for some"?

No, kids aren't capable of these decisions.

I get you want to be warm and fuzzy towards the LGBTQ community but this will cause harm.

It's completely appropriate to deny kids these choices.

Counseling would be better used to get kids back on track to being kids, not worrying about what life altering surgeries they should have.

Kids shouldn't even be engaging in explicit sexual activity until old enough. I didn't have a full grasp on what sex was until after highschool. Just because you have sex and are going through puberty and have new thoughts in your mind doesn't mean you need to permanently alter your body.

[TylerM4]

No, kids aren't capable of these decisions.

I get you want to be warm and fuzzy towards the LGBTQ community but this will cause harm.

It's completely appropriate to deny kids these choices.

Counseling would be better used to get kids back on track to being kids, not worrying about what life altering surgeries they should have.

Kids shouldn't even be engaging in explicit sexual activity until old enough. I didn't have a full grasp on what sex was until after highschool. Just because you have sex and are going through puberty and have new thoughts in your mind doesn't mean you need to permanently alter your body.

I'm starting to wonder if you remember what it was like to be a teenager? Your wording suggests we're dealing with 12yo's here. But the actual topic is focusing more on 15-18yo. Are you aware that by 18yo most youth these days have had sex? By 18yo most youth have had at least 1 "serious" relationship, etc.

There is very little that could be more impactful to them at that age than gender identity. Sexual identity, dating, relationships, and intercourse are literally "top of mind" for that age group. "Just give them counseling" isn't going to help those who would benefit from this type of procedure.

Could harm be done? Yes, I'm sure it could and likely would in some cases. But the better question is "Would the harm outweigh the benefit?". The discussion should look at the total potential for good and compare it to total potential to do harm and see where things land. Blind "It shouldn't be done because they're not capable of making that decision" resistance to the idea is just that - blinding you to what the proper decision is for overall benefit of today's youth.

I honestly don't know if this is a good idea or not. What I do know is that the topic deserves a deeper look than "No, kids aren't capable of these decisions."

[36Drew]

Your wording suggests we're dealing with 12yo's here.

That's because we are indeed dealing with children between the ages of 10-12 on the topic of puberty blockers. You should study up on the topic a little more.

Could harm be done? Yes, I'm sure it could and likely would in some cases. But the better question is "Would the harm outweigh the benefit?".

Lupron is used to fight cancer. We're using it - in Canada - as a puberty blocker (off-label use) without fully understanding the consequences. On children. Yes, we absolutely should be studying harm-vs-benefit.

I honestly don't know if this is a good idea or not. What I do know is that the topic deserves a deeper look than "No, kids aren't capable of these decisions."

No-one knows if this is a good idea - but it's already being done. It does indeed deserve a much deeper look - but no one in Canada is looking or asking those questions. The UK has just recently banned puberty blockers for children under 16 - but we're forging ahead. You seem to support that.

[Sparki55]

I'm starting to wonder if you remember what it was like to be a teenager? Your wording suggests we're dealing with 12yo's here. But the actual topic is focusing more on 15-18yo. Are you aware that by 18yo most youth these days have had sex? By 18yo most youth have had at least 1 "serious" relationship, etc.

Yep, I'm aware:

Just because you have sex and are going through puberty and have new thoughts

There is very little that could be more impactful to them at that age than gender identity. Sexual identity, dating, relationships, and intercourse are literally "top of mind" for that age group. "Just give them counseling" isn't going to help those who would benefit from this type of procedure.

That's a very large generalization. For the kids who are struggling with their gender identity, sure it's impactful for them. For most, it's sports, school, hobbies, etc. The things that make well-rounded adults with many activities and full life, not sex addicts. Had my parents allowed me to focus more energy on sex I probably would have had a kid before 20. I'm thankful I was steered towards school and hobbies, activities that I now enjoy along with sex.

Could harm be done? Yes, I'm sure it could and likely would in some cases. But the better question is "Would the harm outweigh the benefit?". The discussion should look at the total potential for good and compare it to the total potential to do harm and see where things land. Blind "It shouldn't be done because they're not capable of making that decision" resistance to the idea is just that - blinding you to what the proper decision is for the overall benefit of today's youth.

Fine, if you truly believe kids under 18 are capable of making life-changing decisions, good for you. I'll choose to stick with the settled science that the human brain doesn't stop developing until around 25 years old. Spend time with people under 20 and ask them serious questions about life. Many don't know what career they want, who to vote for or what they want to study in school, never mind what sex organs they want surgically put on them.

[Kelownaite29]

I feel like a lack of empathy is at the core of this. Not a lack of pity, per se, but an inability or unwillingness to understand that people different from you exist, and that your experiences are not the same as everyone else's. For example, I'm a man. I have always known I was a boy/man as long as I can remember, so I can imagine how weird it would be to have a vagina, much less boobs and a period. I wouldn't just 'be a woman' if I had those things - I'd still be me, but my body would not match that. As a prepubescent kid, it'd be weird but manageable, I think, but when puberty hits? I think you should be able to see why having these treatments available to people of that age would be an amazing medical benefit.

Have you ever talked to a transgender person? Many of them know well before they're adults and most of those that don't at least have a feeling that something about them is not the same as the societal norm. I realize nonbinary can absolutely cloud that issue, but I'm talking about the ends of the spectrum here.

Also, these treatments are not given out on a whim "Oh, Bobby, how would you like to be Jane instead?" That's an obvious strawman and frankly it's not even worth engaging with someone who espouses that since they're clearly arguing in bad faith. As for 'irreversible damage' I find it funny how this kind of argument works. They always bring up the potential damage of doing something in error, but never mention the damage of not taking action when you should. I can conceive of some theoretical edge cases where this treatment would be administered on someone who shouldn't really have it (actually, with current restrictions I really can't, but in some more libertarian system involving some damaged overbearing parents and unethical doctors? Conceivably), but I can point to a whole hell of a lot more real world examples of people whose lives would have been dramatically improved by receiving these treatments at an appropriate age and who would have had a lot less damage done to them. So purely on that, I'd say if you're looking to minimize irreversible damage, we should ensure this treatment and the professional counseling that goes with it and prior to it should be available to anyone who needs it. But I suspect that minimizing damage isn't really OP's aim.