Rents going down ...

[foenix]

Just messing with you BC....I sorry....

....but then again, what about the tenants expenses going up? .....eating into his disposal income to pay that rent? If that's not a factor for you in a negotiation to change the rental rate, maybe the renter will say the same thing about your increasing costs.

A landlord is not responsible for the tenant's financial issues. If the tenant can't pay the rent (which is not included in disposable income) then they can find a place where the rent is cheaper and free up some extra disposable income.

By the same token, in a negotiation to change a renter's rental rate, does the renter have an obligation to have the rent go up because of the landlord's financial issues is the question. So if you're saying the renter is responsible for his own finances, why should the renter worry about the landlord's finance as well? The landlord can certainly try and recoup it with the next tenant according to what the market is at that time when the existing tenant moves out.....see how that works?

[BC Landlord]

Well now.... So, you are claiming that property taxes, insurance and maintenance on a clear title house can exceed what the home is being rented for?

Who mentioned "clear title" (i.e. mortgage free)? And what makes you entitled to question other people's accounting? Do you also ask your grocer to provide you with his accounting on groceries you buy? Or maybe, ask the government to intervene with "grocery controls"?
Landlord has no need to justify you the rent he is asking. Period!

[kgcayenne]

Well, I’m not going to believe for one second that someone who has overextended himself has the right to require a tenant to cover his butt. If he cannot afford to be a landlord and assume its assocIated risks and laws, then he should not be one. Landlords who know what they’re doing are doing so just bloody fine.

[BC Landlord]

Well, I’m not going to believe for one second that someone who has overextended himself has the right to require a tenant to cover his butt. If he cannot afford to be a landlord and assume its assocIated risks and laws, then he should not be one. Landlords who know what they’re doing are doing so just bloody fine.

And what you believe is irrelevant. The accounting behind landlords asking rents is none of anyone's business but landlords' themselves. Don't like it? Shop around at will! But don't cry to the government to come to your rescue, because it won't. They actually make it much worse for renters, as evident with the rent controls.

[Rejigger]

Well now.... So, you are claiming that property taxes, insurance and maintenance on a clear title house can exceed what the home is being rented for?

Who mentioned "clear title" (i.e. mortgage free)? And what makes you entitled to question other people's accounting? Do you also ask your grocer to provide you with his accounting on groceries you buy? Or maybe, ask the government to intervene with "grocery controls"?
Landlord has no need to justify you the rent he is asking. Period!

KG assumed when you said that you owned the rental property before your income dropped, that you meant you owned it out-right. Whoopsie.

Some people have their knickers in a knot simply because landlords can access the credit info of a potential tenant. And some people are just cranky that others have things they don’t, like assets, for example. Big bad landlords … can’t live with ‘em, can’t live without ‘em. And for that we hatessss them.
~

[Rejigger]

So, in your books, reducing your net income is a positive thing? Does that apply to landlords only, or to your personal finances as well?

Just messing with you BC....I sorry....

You know, there’s a place where you can act like a troll and get away with it and it ain’t here. Go post in the bickering room so people can give it back to you.
~

[Rejigger]

A landlord is not responsible for the tenant's financial issues. If the tenant can't pay the rent (which is not included in disposable income) then they can find a place where the rent is cheaper and free up some extra disposable income.

By the same token, in a negotiation to change a renter's rental rate, does the renter have an obligation to have the rent go up because of the landlord's financial issues is the question.

No.

So if you're saying the renter is responsible for his own finances, why should the renter worry about the landlord's finance as well?

No one’s saying that.

The landlord can certainly try and recoup it with the next tenant according to what the market is at that time when the existing tenant moves out.....see how that works?

Or the landlord can move into or sell a property that’s losing money. We all see how that works.
~

[kgcayenne]

I would like to reiterate that there are plenty of landlords doing well in the business. Plenty of landlords who don’t begrudge the laws and simply do business within them because their asset is increasing in value.

Being a homeowner myself since the mid 2000s, I can verify that my ownership costs have decreased considerably as my mortgage goes down and a fabulous interest rate is earned. I am not willing to lend credibility to the ‘woe is me’ trope.

I see a housing/rental market that is deleterious to our community. I hope rents continue to go down, and if that means some landlords cannot afford to keep their investments, then that is simply a reality that has come into being.

[Rejigger]

Being a homeowner myself since the mid 2000s, I can verify that my ownership costs have decreased considerably as my mortgage goes down and a fabulous interest rate is earned. I am not willing to lend credibility to the ‘woe is me’ trope.

You are only saying that your mortgage payment went down. Utilities, property tax, insurance, repairs and maintenance costs, etc., have all gone up. And don’t forget that those responsibility-exempt tenants can be rather hard on a rental property. So although I suspect you haven’t factored-in the cost of repairs and capital items - carpet cleaning/replacement, paint jobs, new roof, furnace, water heater, for eg. - landlords do factor those amounts in.

I see a housing/rental market that is deleterious to our community. I hope rents continue to go down, and if that means some landlords cannot afford to keep their investments, then that is simply a reality that has come into being.

That’s rather unsympathetic towards tenants, isn’t it? Where will those people who don’t want to, or can’t, own a home live? Jeez, poor tenants are getting it from all directions here.

The other thing I should point out is that this isn’t a ‘woe is me’ discussion, it’s a ‘it’s not the way you think it is’ discussion.

BC Landlord’s posts don’t read as if he’s trying to garner sympathy. Others, however, read as if they’re full of vitriol or lack of knowledge. If you don’t want to learn something new, okay great, that’s your prerogative. But when people who are in-the-know tell it like it is, why call them liars? That makes no sense.
~

[Rejigger]

Rej....this is for you too.....

Taxable Income vs. Gross Income: What's the Difference?

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answer ... income.asp

I don’t know why you mention me here. Why should I care about US taxes?

Your googlefu skills need serious work.
~

[Rejigger]

Well now.... So, you are claiming that property taxes, insurance and maintenance on a clear title house can exceed what the home is being rented for?

I’m going to use a property that I actually rented in 1998 for $1250/mo.

Out of curiosity, how old was your landlord in 1998? How long do you think the average landlord owns their rental for? Do you think the same landlord still owns that house from 1998?

If we assume that a person bought their first home at age 30. They paid it down substantially, then borrowed against it for a down payment on a rental property, which they purchased at age 45. A $450k mortgage with a 25 year amortization at 3% will have a balance owing of roughly $221k after 15 years. Now use that mortgage calculator again to calculate the monthly payments on a $221k mortgage with another 25 year amortization, 3 year term, at 3%. The monthly payments are roughly $2,100 on the $450k and $1,050 on the $221k.

So landlord bought the property at age 45. Fifteen years later, he owes $221k and monthly mortgage payments started out at $2,100. He’s in the red for a number of years. You can run the numbers for another 5 years to see what’s happening when landlord is 65 years old. Then he sells and maybe another landlord takes over.

Meanwhile all other expenses have gone up and a new $20,000 roof has been added and 2 new hot water tanks, the furnace has been serviced annually and is coming due for replacement in the next five years. The fridge and stove, washer and dryer have all been replaced once. Carpets are cleaned annually. Floors and some light fixtures were probably replaced during one of the turn-overs. Tenant’s complaining about the “pink sink”… And so on.

Do you think I’m misleading you?

Like I’ve been saying all along, owning rental property is a long game. There’s no short term reward there.
~

[BC Landlord]

...13K is way below the poverty line for even 1 person in Canada.....might want to quit before digging oneself deeper and deeper in that hole.

$13k-$43k is a tax bracket (15+5%). I was referring to $43k income. That's well above poverty. Can't you read other people's posts before replying to them?

My point was, ... In that bracket you would only get $600 back on a $3,000 expense claimed. Would you not agree? And the point was made to show you that there is not much money in tax deductions, as some would think.

[foenix]

So if you're saying the renter is responsible for his own finances, why should the renter worry about the landlord's finance as well?

No one’s saying that.

That's because the answer wasn't addressed to you.....

A landlord is not responsible for the tenant's financial issues.

[foenix]

...13K is way below the poverty line for even 1 person in Canada.....might want to quit before digging oneself deeper and deeper in that hole.

$13k-$43k is a tax bracket (15+5%). I was referring to $43k income. That's well above poverty. Can't you read other people's posts before replying to them?

My point was, ... In that bracket you would only get $600 back on a $3,000 expense claimed. Would you not agree? And the point was made to show you that there is not much money in tax deductions, as some would think.

Ummmm........once again NO. There is no tax bracket 13K-43K in Canada. This is another example of moving the goalpost and rationalizing after the fact, again.

https://www.canada.ca/en/financial-cons ... s-2/5.html

Here let me explain this again for you. Even if we are talking about someone that had a 43k income from a job and if they had a rental property on top of that, the 3000 dollars of expenses would be deducted from the revenue raised from rental for the year. Whatever net rental income that turns out to be will be added to the person's 43k from a job or any other source of income and that's called total income or gross income, line 15000 on the Canadian tax form.

https://www.taxtips.ca/glossary/taxableincome.htm

Expenses and revenues are part of the deal if one goes in that business......got to deal with it just like a renter deals with their income and expenses. No use crying about it.....as the saying goes, it is what it is and the rules and regulations were known beforehand, no?

[BC Landlord]

Ummmm........once again NO. There is no tax bracket 13K-43K in Canada. This is another example of moving the goalpost and rationalizing after the fact, again.

Hmmm, ... there is. In BC. It's 5% up to $43k (42-ish actually). Federal tax 15% is up to $49k. And anything bellow $13k is not taxable (aka personal amount). So, I was correct to say that your income in between $13k and $43k is taxed 20%, federal and BC taxes combined (15+5%). Most "mom & pop" landlords would be in this category.

Expenses and revenues are part of the deal if one goes in that business......got to deal with it just like a renter deals with their income and expenses. No use crying about it.....as the saying goes, it is what it is and the rules and regulations were known beforehand, no?

That's right. Then, don't ask your landlord to "justify" you rent increases. All you have to do is to compare the rent you are paying, with what current market rents are. And if there is a big gap, it would be wise to cooperate with your landlord. Telling him/her to stuff it, is not a very wise thing to do.