The real choice for Prime Minister

featfan
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Re: The real choice for Prime Minister

Post by featfan »

I really like him.
Staying out of being a bigger politician for his family.
Good man with excellent values in life.
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Re: The real choice for Prime Minister

Post by roseridge »

It's a choice between a man-child (Trudeau), or a real man (Erin O'Toole). Maxine Bernier doesn't have too great of a chance, and neither does Jagmeet Singh. A country has to be led by a real man - not a boy.
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Re: The real choice for Prime Minister

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The further we get into the the more I'm seeing little difference between O'Toole and Trudeau. Both are being forced to the center ground by necessity and that the solutions to our current issues will be the same no matter who is in power. I like it that the NDP are poised to make some significant gains as I am still firm in my belief that right wing politics does not hold the path to a better future. In the big picture Trudeau and O'Toole are both passing blips on the radar, what we need to be working on is the fact that neoliberal policies have put the actual control of the country into the hands of the corporate sector and they are not using that power responsibly. That being said, the PM's office is realistically still out of range for the NDP, but a Conservative government will do squat to solve the real problems as their political philosophy of small gov't/low regulatory climate and low taxes is fertile ground for continued corporate rule.
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Re: The real choice for Prime Minister

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I'm wondering, didn't Mr. Singh mention the idea of an NDP/Liberal coalition to keep the CPC from gaining power during the last election ? Given the way the Libs are sliding in the polls there's a pretty good chance that could be on the table again.
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Re: The real choice for Prime Minister

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fluffy wrote: Aug 29th, 2021, 7:17 am I'm wondering, didn't Mr. Singh mention the idea of an NDP/Liberal coalition to keep the CPC from gaining power during the last election ? Given the way the Libs are sliding in the polls there's a pretty good chance that could be on the table again.
So just go back to what we already had. $600 million poorer for it. Wow are the Liberals dumb. Who would want to form a coalition with such utter fools?
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Re: The real choice for Prime Minister

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The Green Barbarian wrote: Aug 29th, 2021, 7:57 am Who would want to form a coalition with such utter fools?
I would think that would be obvious. In the NDP's view, better Lib than right.
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Re: The real choice for Prime Minister

Post by erinmore3775 »

I believe that Fluffy has the right comment. "The further we get into the the more I'm seeing little difference between O'Toole and Trudeau. Both are being forced to the center ground by necessity and that the solutions to our current issues will be the same no matter who is in power. I like it that the NDP are poised to make some significant gains as I am still firm in my belief that right wing politics does not hold the path to a better futures."

While Mr. O'Toole appears to have moved towards the centre, I do not believe that the CPC and the core have moved with him. Poilievre remains adamant on his fiscal plans and comments on the deficit, while O'Toole is announcing spending promises that will only increase the deficit. I believe this confusion will only mean that if the CPC formed the government that their policies would not reflect the progressive conservative policies necessary for the new COVD normal.

Perhaps the best solution would be a coalition government. At the moment, both the Liberal and the NDP candidates have demonstrated better and more community support and involvement than the incumbent. All things considered, I will probably continue to vote for the best candidate to represent my riding than for the party. If others did the same perhaps we would get a more representative government and maybe a coalition government.
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Re: The real choice for Prime Minister

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erinmore3775 wrote: Aug 29th, 2021, 8:27 am If others did the same perhaps we would get a more representative government and maybe a coalition government.
Trudeau called the election because he said the coalition between him and the NDP wasn't working.

So, get back to Liberal HQ and tell them they need to send you a different script.
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Re: The real choice for Prime Minister

Post by hobbyguy »

It is interesting how many do not seem to understand the Canadian parliamentary system. We do not get to vote for who is prime minister, we vote for who is the best person to represent us in our local electoral district.

Canada is NOT a republic like the USA where the President has half or more of the real power to get things done. Yes, the prime minister in Canada has much more power than a regular MP, however the PM can not proceed without the approval of the majority of MPs.

There is no question that Singh, O'Toole, Trudeau, and Blanchet will win in their own electoral district. Paul is in tough. Bernier is in tough.

The nature of the representatives we elect locally has a big influence on how the party leaders act, whether they get to go off on tangents, the kind of people that get to be cabinet ministers, and the content and implementation of programs.

Ask yourself how much better our Canadian government would be if folks the like Jody Wilson Raybould and Michael Chong were the majority of MPs chosen. Independent thinkers with great intellectual agility and empathy for all of their constituents that seek to unite and better their communities. Both were and are prepared to risk their political careers to seek something better for Canada and their constituents with a minimal number of blind spots.

No one person can "run" the Canadian federal government. Yes, politically the party leaders have a lot more "punch", but none of them gets very far in the pursuit of quality governance without a quality group of MPs to populate the committees, formulate and guide the execution of programs, and build consensus that weeds out impulsive actions.

IF we select for quality MPs we will also select for better party leaders across the board. Every single one of us, and none of our politicians are exempted, has their "blind spots". Things we know nothing about, things that for reasons of upbringing or education and the best qualified and most agile thinking local representatives that match with what we each see as the future of Canada going forward is to be.

That can be a hard thing to do, as it takes time that many do not have in their busy lives, but it is worth the try you can each make.

To help out, here are the voting records of MPs on recent key topics:

https://www.ourcommons.ca/Members/en/votes/43/2/181
https://www.ourcommons.ca/members/en/votes/43/2/72
https://www.ourcommons.ca/members/en/votes/43/2/175
https://www.ourcommons.ca/members/en/votes/43/2/125

For those with lots of time, you can check detailed discussions like this: https://openparliament.ca/bills/43-2/C-12/

You can find more topics of interest at those sites if there are other key issues for you.

That is one way to help see past the "sales job" that party leaders do (and they all do it) and understand the local candidates and their strengths and weaknesses. Then one can compare that with the education/presentations of the candidates that in the race with local incumbents, and hire the best with your vote. That will ensure the best quality government and keep Canada's parliamentary democracy strong and make sure that whatever party wins, the PM is representing all of us in the best way.
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Re: The real choice for Prime Minister

Post by The Green Barbarian »

hobbyguy wrote: Aug 29th, 2021, 9:20 am It is interesting how many do not seem to understand the Canadian parliamentary system. We do not get to vote for who is prime minister, we vote for who is the best person to represent us in our local electoral district.
That's why for people in Kelowna it's a no brainer - you get the best candidate and the best choice for PM by voting for the Conservatives.
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Re: The real choice for Prime Minister

Post by PoplarSoul »

hobbyguy wrote: Aug 29th, 2021, 9:20 am It is interesting how many do not seem to understand the Canadian parliamentary system. We do not get to vote for who is prime minister, we vote for who is the best person to represent us in our local electoral district.

Canada is NOT a republic like the USA where the President has half or more of the real power to get things done. Yes, the prime minister in Canada has much more power than a regular MP, however the PM can not proceed without the approval of the majority of MPs.

There is no question that Singh, O'Toole, Trudeau, and Blanchet will win in their own electoral district. Paul is in tough. Bernier is in tough.

The nature of the representatives we elect locally has a big influence on how the party leaders act, whether they get to go off on tangents, the kind of people that get to be cabinet ministers, and the content and implementation of programs.

Ask yourself how much better our Canadian government would be if folks the like Jody Wilson Raybould and Michael Chong were the majority of MPs chosen. Independent thinkers with great intellectual agility and empathy for all of their constituents that seek to unite and better their communities. Both were and are prepared to risk their political careers to seek something better for Canada and their constituents with a minimal number of blind spots.

No one person can "run" the Canadian federal government. Yes, politically the party leaders have a lot more "punch", but none of them gets very far in the pursuit of quality governance without a quality group of MPs to populate the committees, formulate and guide the execution of programs, and build consensus that weeds out impulsive actions.

IF we select for quality MPs we will also select for better party leaders across the board. Every single one of us, and none of our politicians are exempted, has their "blind spots". Things we know nothing about, things that for reasons of upbringing or education and the best qualified and most agile thinking local representatives that match with what we each see as the future of Canada going forward is to be.

That can be a hard thing to do, as it takes time that many do not have in their busy lives, but it is worth the try you can each make.

To help out, here are the voting records of MPs on recent key topics:

https://www.ourcommons.ca/Members/en/votes/43/2/181
https://www.ourcommons.ca/members/en/votes/43/2/72
https://www.ourcommons.ca/members/en/votes/43/2/175
https://www.ourcommons.ca/members/en/votes/43/2/125

For those with lots of time, you can check detailed discussions like this: https://openparliament.ca/bills/43-2/C-12/

You can find more topics of interest at those sites if there are other key issues for you.

That is one way to help see past the "sales job" that party leaders do (and they all do it) and understand the local candidates and their strengths and weaknesses. Then one can compare that with the education/presentations of the candidates that in the race with local incumbents, and hire the best with your vote. That will ensure the best quality government and keep Canada's parliamentary democracy strong and make sure that whatever party wins, the PM is representing all of us in the best way.
Great post.

:up: :up: :up:
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Re: The real choice for Prime Minister

Post by rustled »

Gone_Fishin wrote: Aug 29th, 2021, 8:49 am
erinmore3775 wrote: Aug 29th, 2021, 8:27 am If others did the same perhaps we would get a more representative government and maybe a coalition government.
Trudeau called the election because he said the coalition between him and the NDP wasn't working.

So, get back to Liberal HQ and tell them they need to send you a different script.
:up: :up:
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Re: The real choice for Prime Minister

Post by rustled »

The Green Barbarian wrote: Aug 29th, 2021, 9:25 am
hobbyguy wrote: Aug 29th, 2021, 9:20 am It is interesting how many do not seem to understand the Canadian parliamentary system. We do not get to vote for who is prime minister, we vote for who is the best person to represent us in our local electoral district.
That's why for people in Kelowna it's a no brainer - you get the best candidate and the best choice for PM by voting for the Conservatives.
:up: :up:
Same here in the South Okanagan - Kootenay riding.

I'm quite happy with O'Toole's performance during this campaign. Trudeau has been flatfooted throughout, and seems utterly unprepared despite having intentionally foisted this election on us. He really seems to be making everything up as he goes along, as though for him governance is an ongoing evening of improv. Turns out he's not very good at ad-libbing, though.

While improv can be fun theatre, it's no way to govern. Trudeau is a man without a plan - and a failure to plan is a plan to fail. Time for a new prime minister. O'Toole's not only our best hope for a change, he's also a good fit.
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Re: The real choice for Prime Minister

Post by The Green Barbarian »

rustled wrote: Aug 29th, 2021, 9:51 am
:up: :up:
Same here in the South Okanagan - Kootenay riding.

I'm quite happy with O'Toole's performance during this campaign. Trudeau has been flatfooted throughout, and seems utterly unprepared despite having intentionally foisted this election on us. He really seems to be making everything up as he goes along, as though for him governance is an ongoing evening of improv. Turns out he's not very good at ad-libbing, though.

While improv can be fun theatre, it's no way to govern. Trudeau is a man without a plan - and a failure to plan is a plan to fail. Time for a new prime minister. O'Toole's not only our best hope for a change, he's also a good fit.
Rustled, not sure if you saw the footage this morning of Justin trying to make a "climate change announcement" in Cambridge Ontario - seems that with everything else failing, now it's time to sell the "climate change boogey-man" as their last desperate and probably futile attempt to salvage what has been one of the most disastrous campaigns since Kim Campbell in 1992. I posted it in another thread earlier.

What was interesting in the footage wasn't Justin's usual platitude blathering and nonsensical message "you're all doomed to die a horrible cataclysmic death wrought by man-made climate change if you don't vote Liberal", it was that I could barely hear it, due to the large contingent, surely outnumbering the Liberal supporters, who showed up to boo Justin and yell "vote him out" and "get off the stage". This movement to show up and boo Justin started last week, and seems to be growing each day, as more and more people want to vent their anger at him for six years of betrayal and this insanely stupid election call, in person. Interesting phenomenon in crowd behavior and group psychology - people just want something, any way they can find, to get out all of their anger and frustration with the Liberals, and who better to do it in front of, but the symbol of vacuousness and uncaring that they've grown to despise - Justin Trudeau.

You don't get to just build a positive PM image on stupid empty photo-ops like kneeling in graveyards with teddy bears, with fake tears rolling down your cheeks. You have to show you actually care, with real actions. Calling an election of out of naked self interest when the entire country is reeling and hurting shows you don't give a darn, at all. This was the last straw. The Liberals blew it. At this rate, Justin is going to just have to go hide in a basement; he's just going to keep drawing bigger and bigger crowds of angry people who want him gone.
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Re: The real choice for Prime Minister

Post by The Green Barbarian »

erinmore3775 wrote: Aug 29th, 2021, 8:27 am
Perhaps the best solution would be a coalition government. At the moment, both the Liberal and the NDP candidates have demonstrated better and more community support and involvement than the incumbent. All things considered, I will probably continue to vote for the best candidate to represent my riding than for the party. If others did the same perhaps we would get a more representative government and maybe a coalition government.
Which riding are you talking about? Certainly not any in the Okanagan, that's for sure.
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