Canada accepting 20,000 Afghanistan's

rustled
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Re: Canada accepting 20,000 Afghanistan's

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The Green Barbarian wrote: Aug 29th, 2021, 1:38 pm
oldtrucker wrote: Aug 29th, 2021, 11:43 am The people that needed to get out knew that the clock was ticking for many months.
Is it really JT's fault that the situation has become so dangerous that it isn't practical or smart to risk further lives? What happens if one of those aircraft gets hit by a MANPAD or RPG? War is dynamic ....no one thought the country would fall this quick and maybe cancelling further flights is actually quite smart.
These people definitely knew well in advance, but Justin and crew fiddled and diddled and did nothing to help these people get their paperwork in order. Now they are totally screwed. Justin' team told a bunch of Afghans to wait by the gates dressed in red, and they would be helped, and no one showed up. Guess what, now everyone including the Taliban know that those people are collaborators with the infidel, and they have a good chance of being slaughtered, in some pretty gruesome ways. Great job Justin!
Trudeau didn't take the situation seriously - this sort of casual neglect is one of the defining hallmarks of his government.

Then, when it was obvious he'd failed the people for whom he was responsible, he tried to cover it up with a promise that shows he STILL doesn't take the situation or his responsibilities seriously - two more defining hallmarks of his government. The casual neglect of duty, inflated ego, vacuous promises.
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Re: Canada accepting 20,000 Afghanistan's

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It is what it is. It's history now. Spilled milk. Let's see what we can all do better going forward.
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Re: Canada accepting 20,000 Afghanistan's

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nucksRnum1 wrote: Aug 29th, 2021, 5:55 pm It is what it is. It's history now. Spilled milk. Let's see what we can all do better going forward.
Time for you to realize what side your toast is buttered on. If we ever need help from another nation our personnel will be screwed.


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Re: Canada accepting 20,000 Afghanistan's

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So you are saying that after 20 years of war and conflict - and the countries who started the wars losing interest - not to mention shrinking budgets - that getting out being a mess is Bidens and Trudeau's fault? I am almost choking on the conservative bias. Which were the ones that started a 20-year war. If any responsibility should be taken - that's where it should start.
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Re: Canada accepting 20,000 Afghanistan's

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nucksRnum1 wrote: Aug 29th, 2021, 7:42 pm So you are saying that after 20 years of war and conflict - and the countries who started the wars losing interest - not to mention shrinking budgets - that getting out being a mess is Bidens and Trudeau's fault? I am almost choking on the conservative bias. Which were the ones that started a 20-year war. If any responsibility should be taken - that's where it should start.
It's how we got out of Afghanistan. Getting into it and shrinking budgets (what the heck is that?) are not part of getting out of Afghanistan and accepting 20,000 Afghans.

It didn't help that Justin took off on an election campaign, and left his bureaucrats to clean up the mess.
https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/ ... fghanistan
“We have a couple of people who are trying to process thousands and thousands of applications, and it’s just not working,” Kevin Newman, a former journalist and volunteer with Veterans Transition Network told the CBC.
Andrew Rusk, co-founder of a group called Not Left Behind, suggested Canada’s few remaining officials were doing their best, but “because of our delays, because of the paperwork, because of the bureaucracy,


Canada had several months notice to get a realistic escape plan in place, but no, Trudeau had an election to look after.

And whoever started this war, it was not any Conservatives in Canada.
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Re: Canada accepting 20,000 Afghanistan's

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nucksRnum1 wrote: Aug 29th, 2021, 7:42 pm I am almost choking on the conservative bias. Which were the ones that started a 20-year war. If any responsibility should be taken - that's where it should start.
Jean Chretien wasn't a Conservative.

He was a dastardly Liberal.
When did Canada send troops to Afghanistan?

7 October 2001

After the United States' invasion of Afghanistan, the first Canadian battle group went to Kandahar on 7 October 2001. In this deployment, the Canadians protected Kandahar Airfield and supported American operations.

https://www.warmuseum.ca/learn/canada-a ... istan-war/
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Re: Canada accepting 20,000 Afghanistan's

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Afghanistan is a country that is not understood by outsiders.

The British Empire tried 3 times to change Afghanistan - and each effort turned into a disaster. The last time was not long after WW1. 3 strikes and you're out - and each time a debacle.

The Soviets tried in 1929 to change Afghanistan and again in 1979 - and each effort turned into a disaster and a debacle - the last one contributing heavily to fall of the Soviet Union.

Somehow our ally the USA thought it would be different in 2001. As a staunch allies of the USA, Britain, Canada, Australia, Germany and many other countries went with the Americans to tilt at the Afghanistan windmill.

Pakistan, who have a much better understanding of Afghanistan played along reluctantly and played both sides of the "game" - giving safe harbor to the Taliban and others all the way to Al Qaeda and Osama Bin Laden.

In the end, the USA led coalition had the same success as the British Empire and the Soviet Union. None at all, and have covered themselves in ignominy as Afghanistan has once again made fools of outsiders who do not understand it.

Canada is not alone in failing to understand how fast things revert to the past in Afghanistan. Western "intelligence" failed to understand the centuries old three dimensional chess that was and is in play. Afghanistan, Iran, Pakistan, Iraq... and others in the region might as well be Martians as far as western "intelligence" is concerned - especially when that limited intelligence runs up against a wide array of political leadership that has no clue, just we as everyday folks don't, as the reality of Afghanistan.

The only insight that I have is that stepping into Afghanistan has been the equivalent of stepping on a land mine for outsiders. Step on it, and you must stay put forever, and when your patience and ability to withstand the elemental forces of Afghanistan has run out, it will blow up in your face as step away.

The end result is only a better armed Afghanistan - where British Empire rifles from the 1880s were still in use 2011 and now replaced with arms and weaponry that western countries so generously gave to the "Afghan Army".

The speed at which the Taliban "took over" took us by surprise. We do not seem to learn. The Taliban never left Afghanistan, yes they pulled the part that western countries do recognize into safe harbor in Pakistan and other countries, but is obvious now that the Taliban were always right there where they had always been.

And so the American Empire and its allies leave Afghanistan in the same fashion as the Soviet Empire and the British Empire before them, confused, regretful and in shock and shame. Afghanistan truly is "the graveyard of empires".
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Re: Canada accepting 20,000 Afghanistan's

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The Liberals were all to happy to send our brave soldiers to combat in Afghanistan in rusted out dune buggies, and this directly caused many deaths and injuries.

Military budget cuts since 1993 are to blame, when Chretien became PM, not coincidentally.

Serfs like our military men and women are just pawns to the Liberal elites, who sipped champagne and dined on caviar as our soldiers died needless deaths due to Liberal indifference.

Afghan Blast Stirs Debate on Canadian Military Spending


Posted: Oct 04, 2003


The deaths of two Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan from an explosive device that blew a huge hole through their aging all-terrain vehicle has set off new debate in Canada over military spending after years of slashed budgets.

Opposition politicians and some military experts have suggested that Sgt. Robert Alan Short, 42, and Cpl. Robbie Christopher Beerenfenger, 29, who were killed while on patrol on Kabul's outskirts on Thursday, might have survived had they been in a more modern, armored vehicle like those used by American forces.

They were the first Canadian military deaths in a combat zone since four Canadian soldiers were mistakenly killed in Afghanistan in April 2002 in an attack by an American warplane. Canada currently has 1,950 troops in Afghanistan, where they constitute the largest allied force protecting Kabul.

The two soldiers were riding a 20-year-old Iltis all-terrain vehicle, which offers no protection against land mines and is far smaller, lighter and slower than all-terrain vehicles used by the American, British, German or French militaries. Three other soldiers were wounded.

Canadian military requests to replace the Iltis with a heavier and more powerful vehicle have been delayed during years of budget cuts since 1993.


''The real question is, why were our soldiers sent out into the foothills, into self-described bad-guy country, in unarmored, rusted-out dune buggies, rather than lightly armored vehicles,'' Jay Hill, a member of Parliament from the conservative Canadian Alliance Party who specializes in military affairs, said in the House of Commons on Friday.

Canadian newspapers were filled with vitriolic criticisms of the Iltis from retired military officers. One unnamed soldier in Afghanistan was quoted in The Edmonton Journal as describing the all-terrain vehicle as ''a bit of an albatross around our neck.'' Soldiers are known to sit on their flak jackets when riding in the Iltis when driving through combat zones to give them a modicum of protection.

''This jeep should have been replaced a decade ago,'' said David Bercuson, director of the Center for Military and Strategic Studies at the University of Calgary. ''The complacency in this government over defense is extremely thick.''

https://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/04/worl ... nding.html
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Re: Canada accepting 20,000 Afghanistan's

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bb49 wrote: Aug 29th, 2021, 8:03 pm
nucksRnum1 wrote: Aug 29th, 2021, 7:42 pm So you are saying that after 20 years of war and conflict - and the countries who started the wars losing interest - not to mention shrinking budgets - that getting out being a mess is Bidens and Trudeau's fault? I am almost choking on the conservative bias. Which were the ones that started a 20-year war. If any responsibility should be taken - that's where it should start.
It's how we got out of Afghanistan. Getting into it and shrinking budgets (what the heck is that?) are not part of getting out of Afghanistan and accepting 20,000 Afghans.

It didn't help that Justin took off on an election campaign, and left his bureaucrats to clean up the mess.
https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/ ... fghanistan
“We have a couple of people who are trying to process thousands and thousands of applications, and it’s just not working,” Kevin Newman, a former journalist and volunteer with Veterans Transition Network told the CBC.
Andrew Rusk, co-founder of a group called Not Left Behind, suggested Canada’s few remaining officials were doing their best, but “because of our delays, because of the paperwork, because of the bureaucracy,


Canada had several months notice to get a realistic escape plan in place, but no, Trudeau had an election to look after.

And whoever started this war, it was not any Conservatives in Canada.
It was Chretien that followed Bush Jr. to Afghanistan but it was Harper that escalated our presence because he wanted to show how tough he was to the world and the US. He also was responsible for us being there for 9 years instead of withdrawing finally in 2014. That's when all our Afghani allies should have been brought out as well but it was also Harper and Kenny that callously told our allies who put their lives at risk for our troops, "too bad, so sad" because you were already paid and knew the risks..... as they were left behind.

That's the REAL history of Canada's withdraw from Afghanistan in 2014, not the contrived and the fake election story that it was JT's fault, who was elected ONE YEAR AFTER Canada's withdraw from Afghanistan.
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Re: Canada accepting 20,000 Afghanistan's

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foenix wrote: Aug 30th, 2021, 10:59 am but it was Harper
LOL - here we go again. Justin just looks awful on this. Blaming anyone else for this debacle just makes it look even worse. BUT HARPER! - what a joke.
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Re: Canada accepting 20,000 Afghanistan's

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Diane Francis: Afghan withdrawal a bruise on our reputation
There is no excuse for the Canadian government not getting everyone out weeks before the Taliban reached Kabul

The U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan has been a disaster, though there was never going to be a good time to leave. Footage of the chaos at the airport is disturbing and the United States government has been rightly criticized for its botched withdrawal. Yes, the collapse of the Afghan regime seemed to take everyone by surprise and all the western allies are facing the same challenges. However, some have coped better than others. Canada’s exit attempt, it appears, has been appalling.

Canadian officials left Kabul and closed the Canadian Embassy before the Taliban arrived, and before all citizens and valued staff members could be evacuated, according to several accounts.

On Aug. 15, as the Taliban was over-running Kabul, Foreign Affairs Minister Marc Garneau issued a statement saying that “Canadian personnel … are now safely on their way back to Canada.”

Yet a recent story in Blacklock’s Reporter notes that, “The Department of Foreign Affairs closed its embassy in Kabul though it knew Canadian citizens remained trapped inside Afghanistan.”

And on Aug. 20, respected journalist Kevin Newman, the former “Global National” anchor who’s now working with volunteer veterans to help rescue Canadians and their interpreters from the Taliban, wrote a column for the Line newsletter saying that Canada has done an abysmal job.

SNIP

By the way, the collapse of the Afghan government once the Americans decided to leave and announced a withdrawal date should not have come as a surprise to any of the allies or those on the ground, as a 2019 report by the Canadian Security Intelligence Service predicted a quick “collapse” and victory for the Taliban. There is no excuse for the Canadian government not getting everyone out weeks before the Taliban reached Kabul, or at least having an evacuation plan in place that could be executed on short notice.

The blame for this mess lies squarely with the federal Liberals, which have mishandled and misunderstood most foreign policy issues that have come their way — from China to Afghanistan. Now people are imperilled and the country’s reputation has been bruised.
https://financialpost.com/diane-francis ... reputation
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Re: Canada accepting 20,000 Afghanistan's

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The Green Barbarian wrote: Aug 30th, 2021, 11:49 am
foenix wrote: Aug 30th, 2021, 10:59 am but it was Harper
LOL - here we go again. Justin just looks awful on this. Blaming anyone else for this debacle just makes it look even worse. BUT HARPER! - what a joke.
Really what year did ALL Canadians except for the embassy staff LEAVE Afghanistan? ......hint.....it wasn't 2021.
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Re: Canada accepting 20,000 Afghanistan's

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foenix wrote: Aug 30th, 2021, 12:29 pm
The Green Barbarian wrote: Aug 30th, 2021, 11:49 am

LOL - here we go again. Justin just looks awful on this. Blaming anyone else for this debacle just makes it look even worse. BUT HARPER! - what a joke.
Really what year did ALL Canadians except for the embassy staff LEAVE Afghanistan? ......hint.....it wasn't 2021.
You need to check facts, A great number of Canadian military special forces were still in Afghanistan up until a few ago, only regular army pulled out of Afghanistan several years ago.
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Re: Canada accepting 20,000 Afghanistan's

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Hurtlander wrote: Aug 30th, 2021, 12:46 pm
foenix wrote: Aug 30th, 2021, 12:29 pm

Really what year did ALL Canadians except for the embassy staff LEAVE Afghanistan? ......hint.....it wasn't 2021.
You need to check facts, A great number of Canadian military special forces were still in Afghanistan up until a few ago, only regular army pulled out of Afghanistan several years ago.
Oh ok, so the special forces got there on Aug 12, 2021 to help with the evacuation but as far as I'm aware they weren't there before that? You have something besides this?

Canada to send special forces to Afghanistan to close embassy in Kabul, official says
Canadian special forces will deploy to Afghanistan where staff in Canada’s embassy in Kabul will be evacuated before it closes, a source familiar with the plan told The Associated Press.

The official, who was not authorized to talk publicly about the matter and spoke on condition of anonymity, did not say how many special forces would be sent.

Just weeks before the U.S. is scheduled to end its war in Afghanistan, the Biden administration is also rushing 3,000 fresh troops to the Kabul airport to help with a partial evacuation of the U.S. Embassy.

The moves highlight the stunning speed of a Taliban takeover of much of the country, including their capture on Thursday of Kandahar, the second-largest city and the birthplace of the Taliban movement.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/13/canada- ... bassy.html
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Re: Canada accepting 20,000 Afghanistan's

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Garneau accepts some criticism of evacuation efforts in Afghanistan

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/g ... d=msedgntp
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