What we can expect in the third millennium

[Rejigger]

Did you even read the link? Did your well off peeps have over 20 million dollars? If not, they dont have to worry. If so, they would have to pay $200,000 on that $20,000,000 they have. I'm pretty sure percentage wise I pay way more.

In case it went over anyone else’s head, I will repeat that even though “my peeps” are not ultra-wealthy EVEN THEY found it worthwhile to leave Canada and take their money with them. Therefore, anybody who think the ultra-wealthy won’t find it worth their while to do the same, I’d suggest they put down that glass of kool-aid.

~

[foenix]

Did you even read the link? Did your well off peeps have over 20 million dollars? If not, they dont have to worry. If so, they would have to pay $200,000 on that $20,000,000 they have. I'm pretty sure percentage wise I pay way more.

In case it went over anyone else’s head, I will repeat that even though “my peeps” are not ultra-wealthy EVEN THEY found it worthwhile to leave Canada and take their money with them. Therefore, anybody who think the ultra-wealthy won’t find it worth their while to do the same, I’d suggest they put down that glass of kool-aid.

~

People move all the time to other countries for various reason........nothing new there. If the ultra wealthy wants to move anytime, they can but I guess they won't be calling Canada home. I'm sure we will survive and they can make their money in another
country. Bon voyagee is what I would say to that. It's not like they are paying their share of income earned in this country, like the middle class are.

[Rejigger]

In case it went over anyone else’s head, I will repeat that even though “my peeps” are not ultra-wealthy EVEN THEY found it worthwhile to leave Canada and take their money with them. Therefore, anybody who think the ultra-wealthy won’t find it worth their while to do the same, I’d suggest they put down that glass of kool-aid.

People move all the time to other countries for various reason........nothing new there.

True but completely irrelevant to the situation being discussed - these people left because they were already heavily taxed.

If the ultra wealthy wants to move anytime, they can but I guess they won't be calling Canada home. I'm sure we will survive and they can make their money in another country.

Again, true. And I’m sure you can see how having fewer investments in Canada (fewer assets on our balance sheet, if you will) and fewer tax dollars coming in (less income, if you will) isn’t a good thing for the country.

Bon voyagee is what I would say to that. It's not like they are paying their share of income earned in this country, like the middle class are.

Mmmhmm. Again, when someone says they’re leaving because taxes are already too high, that means they’re paying “their share” of taxes.

Or are you suggesting that they’re doing something illegal, like tax evasion? In which case, why would they leave if they weren’t paying high taxes?

Like I wrote above, I’m impressed by the reporter/journalist who asked the question of Jagmeet Singh because they clearly know more than the average Joe Q Public.

*snap* <——- the camel’s back
~

[foenix]

Or are you suggesting that they’re doing something illegal, like tax evasion? In which case, why would they leave if they weren’t paying high taxes?

Ummmm.......because they are in position to take advantage of these kinds of "tax evasion"........and they're still here and not paying high taxes because their money is hidden offshore or other ways.

Canada Has a Tax Haven Problem & Nothing Is Happening About It

https://nouvelle.news/2020/07/canada-ha ... -about-it/

More than 3,000 Canadian names in the Paradise Papers

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/paradi ... -1.4386126

CRA identifies nearly 900 Canadians in Panama Papers, 5 investigations underway

https://globalnews.ca/news/5124637/pana ... dians-cra/

[Sparki55]

country. Bon voyagee is what I would say to that. It's not like they are paying their share of income earned in this country, like the middle class are.

If you think the only contribution the ultra wealthy make to Canada is a lack of taxes, you don't understand how money works.

[Sparki55]

Ummmm.......because they are in position to take advantage of these kinds of "tax evasion"........and they're still here and not paying high taxes because their money is hidden offshore or other ways.

This is what they are doing:

Making money in Canada like the rest of us. Paying tax on that money like the rest of us. Moving the profits to another country with less tax. Investing the money in other country, paying taxes (if applicable) in other country.

Do you think it should change so Canada can snuff out who owns offshore companies and tax those companies in other countries?

It only makes sense if the business operates in Canada. The revenue made in Canada is then subject to tax.

[Rejigger]

Or are you suggesting that they’re doing something illegal, like tax evasion? In which case, why would they leave if they weren’t paying high taxes?

Ummmm.......because they are in position to take advantage of these kinds of "tax evasion"........and they're still here and not paying high taxes because their money is hidden offshore or other ways.

Canada Has a Tax Haven Problem & Nothing Is Happening About It

https://nouvelle.news/2020/07/canada-ha ... -about-it/

More than 3,000 Canadian names in the Paradise Papers

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/paradi ... -1.4386126

CRA identifies nearly 900 Canadians in Panama Papers, 5 investigations underway

https://globalnews.ca/news/5124637/pana ... dians-cra/

Tax evasion is a separate subject from taxing the ultra-wealthy, which is what we had been discussing.

But, again, if they are engaged in tax evasion, they wouldn't be worried about paying high taxes, ergo no need to leave Canada for such a reason. And if they are paying high taxes and they tell us they're leaving the country because of it, why would you doubt them?

Can you see the contradiction?
~

[Rejigger]

Ummmm.......because they are in position to take advantage of these kinds of "tax evasion"........and they're still here and not paying high taxes because their money is hidden offshore or other ways.

More than 3,000 Canadian names in the Paradise Papers
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/paradi ... -1.4386126

From the above article, "Howlett said the Canadian government facilitates this practice by signing tax agreements with tax havens. "This is legal, and it should not be legal. That's the point."

If it's legal, it's not "tax evasion" and it's not "hidden offshore" as you wrote.
~

[foenix]

Ummmm.......because they are in position to take advantage of these kinds of "tax evasion"........and they're still here and not paying high taxes because their money is hidden offshore or other ways.

More than 3,000 Canadian names in the Paradise Papers
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/paradi ... -1.4386126

From the above article, "Howlett said the Canadian government facilitates this practice by signing tax agreements with tax havens. "This is legal, and it should not be legal. That's the point."

If it's legal, it's not "tax evasion" and it's not "hidden offshore" as you wrote.
~

...except, tax havens might be legal but if one doesn't disclose the wealth in those tax havens and not pay tax on them, then that's called "tax evasion" and it's illegal. If it weren't for the leaks like the Paradise and the Panama papers, CRA or any of the other countries' tax authorities wouldn't even know about those accounts.

Wealthy Canadians with hidden offshore accounts are evading up to $3 billion in tax every year, according to the first ever estimate of the international tax gap by the Canada Revenue Agency, obtained by the Star.

In a report to be made public Thursday, the government estimates Canadian individuals are hiding between $75.9 billion and $240.5 billion in offshore tax havens and elsewhere, and not paying tax on it.

The analysis “gives a sense of the potential magnitude of forgone tax revenues associated with the unreported offshore investment income earned by Canadians,” states the report. “Understanding how and why taxpayers are non-compliant is critical to help preserve the integrity of the tax system and to protect Canada’s revenue base, which supports programs and benefits delivered to Canadians.”

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.thestar ... -year.html

[Ka-El]

From the States but this study might change some thinking and have some impact on interest rates in the near future …

The wealthy - not the Fed - are to blame for low interest rates and rising inequality

• It's inequality that dragged interest rates lower, not the other way around, NBER researchers said Friday.
• Wealthy Americans' ballooning savings over the last two decades fueled interest rates' decline, they find.
• Lower rates lift asset values and help the rich get richer, an expert says. Or in other words, "inequality begets inequality!"

<snip>

The Fed has taken flak for the trend, with economists warning that near-zero rates worsen inequality. But what if that narrative is wrong, and the wealthy are behind rates' steady decline instead of the Fed?

The conventional argument should be flipped on its head, according to a study published Friday by the National Bureau for Economic Research. Wealthy Americans' booming income powered the decades-long decline in interest rates, economists Atif Mian, Ludwig Straub, and Amir Sufi wrote. That downtrend then lifted stocks and most recently powered the market's rebound from 2020 lows.

"It is a vicious cycle, and we are stuck in it," Mian wrote in a Tuesday tweet. In other words, it may not be the Fed's fault, which means it will be much harder to solve.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/markets ... li=AAggFp5

[Rejigger]

...except, tax havens might be legal but if one doesn't disclose the wealth in those tax havens and not pay tax on them, then that's called "tax evasion" and it's illegal. If it weren't for the leaks like the Paradise and the Panama papers, CRA or any of the other countries' tax authorities wouldn't even know about those accounts.

“Wealthy Canadians with hidden offshore accounts are evading up to $3 billion in tax every year, according to the first ever estimate of the international tax gap by the Canada Revenue Agency, obtained by the Star.

In a report to be made public Thursday, the government estimates Canadian individuals are hiding between $75.9 billion and $240.5 billion in offshore tax havens and elsewhere, and not paying tax on it.”

Wow! Those are some very large estimates! Must have had a lot of charges laid in the Paradise Papers and Panama Papers scandals, eh? Do you happen to know how many criminal charges were laid out of those 3,900 Canadian names?
~

[Rejigger]

I’ll ask AGAIN, then…

Tax evasion is a separate subject from taxing the ultra-wealthy, which is what we had been discussing.

So, if they are engaged in tax evasion, they wouldn't be worried about paying high taxes, ergo no need to leave Canada for such a reason. And if they are paying high taxes and they tell us they're leaving the country because of it, why would you doubt them?

There’s a contradiction here.
~

[foenix]

I’ll ask AGAIN, then…

Tax evasion is a separate subject from taxing the ultra-wealthy, which is what we had been discussing.

So, if they are engaged in tax evasion, they wouldn't be worried about paying high taxes, ergo no need to leave Canada for such a reason. And if they are paying high taxes and they tell us they're leaving the country because of it, why would you doubt them?

There’s a contradiction here.
~

It's the same coin, the ultra rich are evading taxes, still live in Canada and enjoying the amenities afforded by the taxes paid by the middle class. Taxing the ultra wealthy because they are hiding their money off-shore and not paying their share of the taxes is the other side of that coin......see how that works?

[foenix]

...except, tax havens might be legal but if one doesn't disclose the wealth in those tax havens and not pay tax on them, then that's called "tax evasion" and it's illegal. If it weren't for the leaks like the Paradise and the Panama papers, CRA or any of the other countries' tax authorities wouldn't even know about those accounts.

“Wealthy Canadians with hidden offshore accounts are evading up to $3 billion in tax every year, according to the first ever estimate of the international tax gap by the Canada Revenue Agency, obtained by the Star.

In a report to be made public Thursday, the government estimates Canadian individuals are hiding between $75.9 billion and $240.5 billion in offshore tax havens and elsewhere, and not paying tax on it.”

Wow! Those are some very large estimates! Must have had a lot of charges laid in the Paradise Papers and Panama Papers scandals, eh? Do you happen to know how many criminal charges were laid out of those 3,900 Canadian names?
~

Is that a serious question? CRA -vs- the ultra-wealthy's tax lawyers? It's not even a fair fight. But that's not the discussion here is it? The question was if the ultra wealthy are avoiding paying taxes in Canada and the answer to that question is........most definitely they are. That's the motivation for taxing the ultra-wealthy/wealthy because they are the ones hiding their money off-shore and get them to pay their share of taxes for Canada. You find something wrong with that?

[Rejigger]

Wow! Those are some very large estimates! Must have had a lot of charges laid in the Paradise Papers and Panama Papers scandals, eh? Do you happen to know how many criminal charges were laid out of those 3,900 Canadian names?

Is that a serious question? CRA -vs- the ultra-wealthy's tax lawyers? It's not even a fair fight. But that's not the discussion here is it? The question was if the ultra wealthy are avoiding paying taxes in Canada and the answer to that question is........most definitely they are. That's the motivation for taxing the ultra-wealthy/wealthy because they are the ones hiding their money off-shore and get them to pay their share of taxes for Canada. You find something wrong with that?

No, the question was whether or not a 'wealth tax' would work...

Wealth tax would raise far more money than previously thought

That's been debunked time after time ... Tax revenues never increase proportionally to an increase in taxation, if any. Especially when it comes to wealthier segment of the population. Wealth is very mobile. Nowadays, it takes just a few mouse clicks, ... and off it's gone.

...which then turned into you questioning that fact that the wealthy are leaving Canada to avoid paying taxes...

People move all the time to other countries for various reason........nothing new there. If the ultra wealthy wants to move anytime, they can but I guess they won't be calling Canada home. I'm sure we will survive and they can make their money in another country. Bon voyagee is what I would say to that. It's not like they are paying their share of income earned in this country, like the middle class are.

You took exception to idea that taxing the ultra-wealthy won't work, despite the fact that you are, in essence, offering proof that attempts to tax the ultra-wealthy haven't worked ("they can move any time", "tax havens", "not even a fair fight").

You also said that you don't believe that wealthy are leaving the country because of high taxes while at the same time saying the wealthy don't pay taxes. Curious. If they aren't paying taxes, then why would they say they're leaving Canada because they're paying high taxes? Why wouldn't they just be like, 'Warmer climates. C-ya!'

Your logic is contradictory. Choose one or the other - on both of the points discussed above.

So why would you believe a politician who feeds you a line about 'higher taxes for the wealthy'? You know it won't work, you just haven't gotten to the finish line of your thought process yet. Almost there, though.

We should go back to discussing how the government is protecting the interests of the 'little guy' renter. Maybe you'll start to see the light there, too?
~