End the lockdown

[Sparki55]

I'll come with you to get the shot if you like and I'll ask for an extra one, to get a jump on the boosters.

Thanks but I'm double vaccinated...

Just caring about personal medical choices is all...

[Ka-El]

Just caring about personal medical choices is all...

And yet, no one is taking anyone else's choice away from them. That there are consequences to every choice we make should not be a surprising concept. It has always been that way. You make a choice to drive without a license you will get arrested. If you make the choice to drive with a prohibited license you will probably do a bit of jail time. If you choose to remain unvaccinated you will still be able to access all essential services, including grocery shopping (and eating at McDonald's) but will be expected to comply with whatever health measures they have in place. If someone wants to be able to do everything else vaccinated people can then all anyone has to do is get vaccinated. Everyone has the choice to do it or not.

[WESTman]

And yet, no one is taking anyone else's choice away from them. That there are consequences to every choice we make should not be a surprising concept. It has always been that way. You make a choice to drive without a license you will get arrested. If you make the choice to drive with a prohibited license you will probably do a bit of jail time. If you choose to remain unvaccinated you will still be able to access all essential services, including grocery shopping (and eating at McDonald's) but will be expected to comply with whatever health measures they have in place. If someone wants to be able to do everything else vaccinated people can then all anyone has to do is get vaccinated. Everyone has the choice to do it or not.

The issue is the consequences make no sense, what level of risk does an unvaccinated person pose. Can you compare it to something else? In a society where supposedly 75 percent of eligible people are vaccinated, what risk do the other 25 percent pose? Of what percentage of those 25 percent have natural immunity?

[Jonrox]

The issue is the consequences make no sense, what level of risk does an unvaccinated person pose.

They're selfishly clogging up hospitals and are risking the health of everyone by doing that.

When they stop doing that, the consequences of choosing not to be vaccinated in a province that has a vaccine passport can maybe go away.

[rustled]

Again: this shows that while the vaccine is helping - it is NOT providing the level of immunity provided by the childhood vaccines people were using as their basis for supporting the imposition of vaxports.

You do realize the game has changed since they first talked about the vaccine? And while the other vaccines have been tuned and tweaked over the decades of their use we're playing catch-up with the new one ... we're learning ... holding scientists to their original beliefs sounds a bit medieval in that before the scientific method was documented we had many ideas that were proven wrong with more investigation, i.e. world flat, everything orbits the earth, disease is vengeance of the gods

That's exactly what I'm saying, spooker.

We can't continue to believe herd immunity is likely with this vaccine is likely when the most recent science shows it's not likely. Our thinking needs to change to accommodate what we've learned.

And perhaps BC Landlord is not wrong. Look at what you had to do to get your vaxport, not the vaccines themselves but the technology. It's interesting to consider whether the use of your cell phone was for your convenience or for some other reason, given how easily the government could have simply mailed out a plastic card with the photo ID they have on file to everyone who has had their vaccinations.

Dystopian intrigues aside, the biggest problem I see with the vaxports is the false sense of security - the false belief that people in the restaurant aren't transmitting the virus - coupled with a fresh new way to pit people against each other.

Part of the reason that we all carry a tracking device in our pockets these days is due to the "convenience" factor that it provides us in many ways ... logistics for the app are a lot simpler and can be implemented faster than a plastic card ... and getting things done with regards to the virus should be as fast as possible to get results instead lagging and letting more people get sick and/or die

That's all very well and good, spooker. It's not easy to convince me that arranging for everyone to get the app on their smartphone is faster or more efficient than mailing out a card.

Plenty of do not have smartphones, and I'll be interested to see how we're managed.

Knowing that people in restaurants have a much lower chance of getting Covid thus lowering the overall rate of infection provides a bit of breathing room ... nothing is guaranteed in this life and it's unrealistic to say that creating some room to work towards a better solution is worth nothing ...

How will we know people in restaurants have a much lower chance of getting COVIID? I realize that was an assumption we made when we thought people who had been vaccinated wouldn't continue to be transmitters, and when we thought we'd achieve herd immunity with a specific percentage of the population vaccinated - neither of which is borne out by what we know now. I'd be interested in what you're basing your "much lower chance" statement on.

[Ka-El]

, what level of risk does an unvaccinated person pose.

They're selfishly clogging up hospitals and are risking the health of everyone by doing that.

They are also much more likely to spread the virus very likely resulting in even more clogged up hospitals and more "lockdowns". The idea that every choice has a consequence is really quite simple. It just seems some people are still trying to have their choice without taking any responsibility for the consequences of that choice. Time for some people to grow up.

[WESTman]

They're selfishly clogging up hospitals and are risking the health of everyone by doing that.

When they stop doing that, the consequences of choosing not to be vaccinated in a province that has a vaccine passport can maybe go away.

They test people regularly in the hospital, when someone tests positive even if they were in there for cancer, liver disease, complications with old age whatever it may be they call it a Covid case. It would be nice to know some more information on all these supposed unvaccinated clogging the hospitals, but I suspect that isn't what they want.

[rustled]

Just caring about personal medical choices is all...

And yet, no one is taking anyone else's choice away from them. That there are consequences to every choice we make should not be a surprising concept. It has always been that way. You make a choice to drive without a license you will get arrested. If you make the choice to drive with a prohibited license you will probably do a bit of jail time. If you choose to remain unvaccinated you will still be able to access all essential services, including grocery shopping (and eating at McDonald's) but will be expected to comply with whatever health measures they have in place. If someone wants to be able to do everything else vaccinated people can then all anyone has to do is get vaccinated. Everyone has the choice to do it or not.

We don't have a selection of public roadways that people can drive on without a licence, and another selection of public roadways that are reserved solely for licenced drivers.

The government seems to be suggesting that protecting the employees and customers at restaurants where food costs more is essential for our health and safety, while protecting the employees and customers at fast food restaurants and grocery stores isn't essential for our health and safety.

If the vaxports are really all about health and safety - protecting the vaccinated from the unvaccinated - it seems counterintuitive to me to ban the unvaccinated from places we don't have to go, while allowing them free range in the places we must go. It's pretty evident from the lists we are seeing that this is about social engineering.

[Ka-El]

It's pretty evident from the lists we are seeing that this is about social engineering.

I am intrigued. Do tell me more.

[Rejigger]

^^ so allowing unvaxxed and vaxxed people to shop together is ok though ??

This is where the difference between basic and essential services comes in. People have to shop for food to eat. No one is going to be physically harmed or deprived by not being able to go to a concert, movie or restaurant. That will be a choice.

I noticed you wrote "physically harmed". Congrats, I s'pose, for acknowledging the toll that such a thing will take on one's mental health - this is what the health experts have been saying all along.
~

[rustled]

It's pretty evident from the lists we are seeing that this is about social engineering.

I am intrigued.

LOL. If you say so...

Do tell me more.

It was in the part of my post that may well have been too long winded for you to read:

If the vaxports are really all about health and safety - protecting the vaccinated from the unvaccinated - it seems counterintuitive to me to ban the unvaccinated from places we don't have to go, while allowing them free range in the places we must go.

[Rejigger]

^^ no I do not understand the science allowing vaxxed and unvaxxed people to shop together but not eat together...

Really? You don’t understand how masks reduce transmission or how sanitizer kills the virus? Well, I’ll leave that up to you to remedy if you so choose. Don’t worry. As far as science goes it’s pretty basic stuff, but again - your choice.

I'm so very excited to see what you'll post once the (vaccine resistant*) Mu variant renders us all 'unvaccinated'. You sure you don't want to dial it back just a wee bit?

*as per early reports
~

[Ka-El]

I noticed you wrote "physically harmed". Congrats, I s'pose, for acknowledging the toll that such a thing will take on one's mental health - this is what the health experts have been saying all along.

Yes, this has been tough on everyone, some more than others. Patients in hospital or trying to get into the hospital for care during the so-called "health freedom" protests certainly had their health freedom taken from them and many described the experience as traumatic. The sooner we get past the pandemic as it is right now the sooner all of us can go back to enjoying a more normal life. It's unfortunate we have this small minority of idiots who are making sure that won't happen anytime soon.

[rustled]

This is where the difference between basic and essential services comes in. People have to shop for food to eat. No one is going to be physically harmed or deprived by not being able to go to a concert, movie or restaurant. That will be a choice.

I noticed you wrote "physically harmed". Congrats, I s'pose, for acknowledging the toll that such a thing will take on one's mental health - this is what the health experts have been saying all along.
~

More to the point, though, the unvaxxed are not going to be banned from going where we vaxxed have to go to shop for food to eat, or from the least expensive restaurants. What's with that?

They'll still be spreading it among the vaxxed, same as they would in settings on the list of places they're not welcome. Makes it difficult to believe the vaxports are about public health and public safety.

[Ka-El]

I am intrigued.

It was in the part of my post that may well have been too long winded for you to read:

If the vaxports are really all about health and safety - protecting the vaccinated from the unvaccinated - it seems counterintuitive to me to ban the unvaccinated from places we don't have to go, while allowing them free range in the places we must go.

Sure, there are some apparent contradictions there (that have been addressed) but tell me how this is social engineering. I googled it and found social engineering is defined as the use of centralized planning in an attempt to manage social change and regulate the future development and behavior of a society. Okay, but this is something done deliberately and if this is really the case then are we to assume that Horgan and others are in cahoots with Trudeau, and all of them in cahoots with other world leaders to regulate the future development and behavior of a society. I wonder how they all came to agreement on what the desired outcomes would be. It really does sound like a bit of a stretch to me and possibly more appropriate in the conspiracy theory section, but maybe you have better insight into this plan and how they are going to make it work.