End the lockdown

[Sparki55]

Just caring about personal medical choices is all...

And yet, no one is taking anyone else's choice away from them. That there are consequences to every choice we make should not be a surprising concept. It has always been that way.

As an adult, I understand choices come with consequences. I am not asking the world to free anyone of consequences from their own poor choices. I fully understand people will have more severe symptoms without a vaccine.

Fine, I'll bite and play with your drivers' licence analogy. Imagine that you were not allowed to wear glasses (a mask) to drive but instead had to opt for laser eye surgery (a vaccine) to be allowed to drive? Laser eye surgery is safe, effective and prevents issues from glasses blowing off (motorcycle), night glare and other issues that attribute to more accidents.

The issue is and will always be keeping hospital caseloads at manageable levels. Why don't we have a special pandemic health clinic to treat people? Why does it need to be at the hospital. Can't anything be done to help with the situation other than plan A, get everyone vaccinated? What is plan B?

There is no threat to a vaccinated person to have a non-vaccinated person eat diner in the same restaurant.

[Ka-El]

There is no threat to a vaccinated person to have a non-vaccinated person eat diner in the same restaurant.

Other than passing the virus on to the unvaccinated person who then carries it and passes it along to someone else who might not be vaccinated and so on and so on. The threat is I might pass the virus on to someone I love or maybe an unvaccinated co-worker. The threat is we all suffer from economic shutdowns caused by outbreaks. The threat is if our hospitals get clogged with COVID patients and I'm waiting for hip surgery then I have to live crippled with pain all that much longer. The threat is we already have nurses walking off the job due to complete burnout and that could get worse impacting all of us. I am personally not worried about getting too sick as I am double vaccinated, but I am thinking of more than just my wants.

[Sparki55]

The threat is if our hospitals get clogged with COVID patients and I'm waiting for hip surgery then I have to live crippled with pain all that much longer.

Then treat unvaccinated people in tent clinics separate from hospitals. We seem to have unlimited money for everything else, what's the problem?

A plan is only as good as it's contingencies... Where is plan B if not everyone gets vaccinated?

[JLives]

The threat is if our hospitals get clogged with COVID patients and I'm waiting for hip surgery then I have to live crippled with pain all that much longer.

Then treat unvaccinated people in tent clinics separate from hospitals. We seem to have unlimited money for everything else, what's the problem?

A plan is only as good as it's contingencies... Where is plan B if not everyone gets vaccinated?

It's the straining of personnel resources that is causing this issue. OR room access is reduced because the people who would be working in them are working on Covid patients.

[Sparki55]

It's the straining of personnel resources that is causing this issue. OR room access is reduced because the people who would be working in them are working on Covid patients.

This is a pandemic, right? Where are the reserve personal to help out? Why can't we have a tent clinic to serve the unvaccinated?

What if this virus had 10x the death rate and was more transmissible with no vaccine yet.

Again, where is plan B?

[GordonH]

It's the straining of personnel resources that is causing this issue. OR room access is reduced because the people who would be working in them are working on Covid patients.

This is a pandemic, right? Where are the reserve personal to help out? Why can't we have a tent clinic to serve the unvaccinated?

What if this virus had 10x the death rate and was more transmissible with no vaccine yet.

Again, where is plan B?

You will have to ask Adrian Dix about plan B.

[Ka-El]

This is a pandemic, right? Where are the reserve personal to help out?

Not only do we not have reserve personnel to help out, but our existing health care workers are burning out with some even leaving the profession in disgust at the irresponsible and selfish behavior of the people protesting and interfering with the efforts of those trying to help people and get this pandemic under control. I can only imagine how disheartening that is.

[Silverstarqueen]

And yet, no one is taking anyone else's choice away from them. That there are consequences to every choice we make should not be a surprising concept. It has always been that way. You make a choice to drive without a license you will get arrested. If you make the choice to drive with a prohibited license you will probably do a bit of jail time. If you choose to remain unvaccinated you will still be able to access all essential services, including grocery shopping (and eating at McDonald's) but will be expected to comply with whatever health measures they have in place. If someone wants to be able to do everything else vaccinated people can then all anyone has to do is get vaccinated. Everyone has the choice to do it or not.

The issue is the consequences make no sense, what level of risk does an unvaccinated person pose. Can you compare it to something else? In a society where supposedly 75 percent of eligible people are vaccinated, what risk do the other 25 percent pose? Of what percentage of those 25 percent have natural immunity?

If someone drives drunk, repeatedly, they get some pretty serious repercussions, maybe even lose their license which could mean losing their job. they might never have actually killed anyone, still our society has deemed it a crime.
We've already pointed out the risks to the other 25 %, taking up hospital beds for one thing. Businesses that might have to shut down because some workers are ill and they can't function on a skeleton crew.

[WESTman]

Not only do we not have reserve personnel to help out, but our existing health care workers are burning out with some even leaving the profession in disgust at the irresponsible and selfish behavior of the people protesting and interfering with the efforts of those trying to help people and get this pandemic under control. I can only imagine how disheartening that is.

They're leaving because of the mandatory vax policy coming up.

[Silverstarqueen]

It's the straining of personnel resources that is causing this issue. OR room access is reduced because the people who would be working in them are working on Covid patients.

This is a pandemic, right? Where are the reserve personal to help out? Why can't we have a tent clinic to serve the unvaccinated?
What if this virus had 10x the death rate and was more transmissible with no vaccine yet.
Again, where is plan B?

Why can't we send the unvaccinated home to isolate with a week's supply of ivermectin? They keep turning up in our hospitals. Nurses don't grow on trees.

[Sparki55]

Not only do we not have reserve personnel to help out, but our existing health care workers are burning out with some even leaving the profession in disgust at the irresponsible and selfish behavior of the people protesting and interfering with the efforts of those trying to help people and get this pandemic under control. I can only imagine how disheartening that is.

Where are the reserve personnel? Not here in Kelowna and not helping out with auxiliary hospitals.

I get some are disheartened. Most are leaving because of underappreciation and overstaffing — not because of the protest yesterday. That's an internal issue, not something to blame on the public.

Again, where is plan B? If the expectation was everything was to go perfectly and everyone vaccinated with no other plan then the issue is with those in charge.

[Sparki55]

Why can't we send the unvaccinated home to isolate with a week's supply of ivermectin? They keep turning up in our hospitals. Nurses don't grow on trees.

That is still a better option than making it mandatory everyone is vaccianted.

[Hurtlander]

The government mandating that all government employees and all healthcare workers be fully vaccinated for Covid is eventually going to eventually cost the government (we the taxpayers) $Millions, possibly even $Billions once the Supreme Court of Canada rules that forcing Canadians to put something in their bodies, against their will, is a complete violation of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms... The government is going to be sued big time...... This is why one of the guys running to be PM is refusing to make Covid vaccines mandatory, because it’s illegal to do so... Note; I’m not arguing the pro’s and con’s of the Covid vaccines, just the legality of locking people out of non-essential services if they aren’t vaccinated, or forcing government regulated employees to be vaccinated.
Same goes for the government forcing mandatory three day hotel quarantine at their own expense on Canadian citizens returning from abroad up until recently, the SCoC will definitely rule against the government.

You're missing a key point, maybe THE key point. Nobody is being forced to get vaccinated. There is a difference between telling someone to report to a vaccine center and take the jab or face arrest or confinement (same thing I guess) versus saying that if you want to work here or participate in this, you must be vaccinated. That is not "forcing" anyone. Their choice is their choice.

I know that the following has been overdone but it is a relevant example. If you want to drive a car, you must be licensed. If you want to shop here, you must be a member. If you want to be a police officer, you must be able to pass the exams. If you want to enter this establishment, you must produce identification. If you want to golf here, you must be a member.

There are countless restrictions we all face everyday for really very frivolous activities but for those who want to participate in them, they must follow the rules.

Nobody is forcing them, it is their choice.

You can't complain about not being able to golf at the country club because you won't buy a membership.

You’re missing the key point that I was trying to make... When the federal government announced that all federally regulated employees must be fully vaccinated against Covid as a condition of employment, that’s most definitely being forced to put something into your body if you want to keep your job... Same goes for all healthcare workers that must be vaccinated to keep their jobs. Once again, I’m not arguing for or against the vaccine, I’m fully vaccinated with Pfizer, all I’m saying is that at some point down the road the Supreme Court of Canada will rule the compulsory vaccinations are a violation of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Hypothetically, what if some brilliant scientist discovers that Lysergic Acid Diethylamide actually 100% permanently cures Covid? Are you willing to force every Canadian 12 and older to take a hit of LSD ?

[foenix]

..........all I’m saying is that at some point down the road the Supreme Court of Canada will rule the compulsory vaccinations are a violation of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

I dont know about that as Florida is going through that process with DeathSantis and the school boards. The question becomes, where does your rights end when you have the possibility to harm others by not wearing masks and not vaccinating. I think the Charter does mention something about that in reference to religion but it's not a big stretch to consider not vaccinating or not wearing masks during a Pandemic may fall into the same category.

However, section 1 of the Charter also recognizes that even in a democracy, rights and freedoms are not absolute. For example, no one is free to yell "fire" in a crowded theatre, to slander someone, to engage in religious practices which cause harm to others, to spread child pornography or hate propaganda or to enter or leave Canada without any restrictions whatsoever. Parliament or a provincial legislature can limit fundamental rights, but only if it can show that the limit

is set out in a law; pursues an important goal which can be justified in a free and democratic society; andpursues that goal in a reasonable and proportionate manner.

The interests of society must always be balanced against the interests of individuals to see if limits on individual rights can be justified

[mexi cali]

You’re missing the key point that I was trying to make... When the federal government announced that all federally regulated employees must be fully vaccinated against Covid as a condition of employment, that’s most definitely being forced to put something into your body if you want to keep your job... Same goes for all healthcare workers that must be vaccinated to keep their jobs. Once again, I’m not arguing for or against the vaccine, I’m fully vaccinated with Pfizer, all I’m saying is that at some point down the road the Supreme Court of Canada will rule the compulsory vaccinations are a violation of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Hypothetically, what if some brilliant scientist discovers that Lysergic Acid Diethylamide actually 100% permanently cures Covid? Are you willing to force every Canadian 12 and older to take a hit of LSD ?

It cannot be considered "forced" if there is a choice. It may be a harsh one but it is a choice. Get the jab or get another job. It's not unreasonable.

Stop for a minute to consider the risks we all take every day with no thought at all. Then stop to consider the extremely minimal risk posed by the vaccine which is being vilified by people who have no GOOD reason to not take it. The common good is what is at stake and it is surprising how many people who truly are only seeing this from their own personal perspective.

Many of us have chosen for the common good to get vaccinated. It makes sense and it is the respectful thing to do.

And no, compulsory vaccines are not going to be quashed as a violation because of how it weighs against the common good which the charter makes provision for.

And who wouldn't wanna "take a trip and never leave the farm" (thanks Ray) if it meant 100% winnage? I'm in .