A Lack of Kindness

[Bsuds]

Last winter it was a nice Saturday morning, and I went to Savon to buy groceries, and I walk into
Cherry Lane and a Security guy "attacks" me - to wear a mask - no one in the mall - for that short
stretch where you walk to Savon. (the guy was polite but I don't need to be ordered around)

Apparently you needed to be reminded to put your mask on. (He was polite)

[fluffy]

I think it stems from what kids are being taught at home.

That has to be part of it. And I still think the internet is playing a big part in a general erosion of decent behavior. Actually knowing what you are talking about used to be a precursor to speaking, now it seems the requirements tend more to how loud you can be.

[Rejigger]

but those are simply good manners, not kindness

Yes, manners are taught. Kindness comes from empathy.

I think it's more than one thing that's contributing to this shift towards a lack of kindness.

Overpopulation; think 'rats in a cage', 'every man for himself', 'race to the finish', 'only so many pieces in a pie' mentality.

Changes in the wiring of our brains; think autism spectrum - any where from 'anti-social' Aspergers to full-on Autism. Those are the extreme cases, but consider that there are more people hovering around 'anti-social/introverts' than ever before, whether due to evolution or environmental factors.

A lack of empathy equals a lack of kindness.
~

[Lady tehMa]

...but those are simply good manners, not kindness

It all comes from the same place. Courtesy, respect, a sense of community, why is it people are making it into the mainstream without learning this stuff? Are we too busy? Are we so wrapped up in our own problems that we're forgetting those around us?

I agree that good manners are a kindness. I do know people who weren't raised with manners and acquired them later on their own. And I know people who were raised with manners where it just "didn't take". I tend to see it as a mark of character if someone has manners, and a telling lack of character if they do not. People with manners are more likely to be kind, in my experience.

I have been thinking about this topic, though. In years past, people were raised with an awareness of their responsibility to the community. Since about the '60s or so (by my estimation, feel free to share your own thoughts) the concept of the self as being more important than the community has been growing. Simply put, people are becoming more selfish. It's all about me-me-me and to heck with the rest. With that trend comes a distinct lack of responsibility - an unwillingness to shoulder any obligation to society, or to do for others. This makes for a pretty toxic culture, in my opinion.

Edit: and yes, normaM, a lack of empathy.

[Lady tehMa]

And the examples in this thread to do with COVID touches on what is and is not our responsibility.

I believe society has the right to ask an individual to wear a mask. It can be uncomfortable or inconvenient but it is reasonable.

I do not believe society has the right to ask an individual to alter their body (ie: vaccines) or share private/personal information (vaccine passport).

It is not selfish to ask people to be considerate of others, but it is selfish to tell them to give up their body sovereignty or privacy. We need to respect each other, and also allow each other to make our own decisions.

[Silverstarqueen]

Absolutely people should not be forced to take the vaccine.
Also businesses should not be forced to allow unvaccinated people into their businesses, patients in nursing homes and hospitals should not have to have contacts with unvaccinated people around them.
There are alternatives, which allow everyone to remain safe.

[W105]

And the examples in this thread to do with COVID touches on what is and is not our responsibility.

I believe society has the right to ask an individual to wear a mask. It can be uncomfortable or inconvenient but it is reasonable.

I do not believe society has the right to ask an individual to alter their body (ie: vaccines) or share private/personal information (vaccine passport).

It is not selfish to ask people to be considerate of others, but it is selfish to tell them to give up their body sovereignty or privacy. We need to respect each other, and also allow each other to make our own decisions.

[rustled]

but those are simply good manners, not kindness

Yes, manners are taught. Kindness comes from empathy.

I think it's more than one thing that's contributing to this shift towards a lack of kindness.

Overpopulation; think 'rats in a cage', 'every man for himself', 'race to the finish', 'only so many pieces in a pie' mentality.

Changes in the wiring of our brains; think autism spectrum - any where from 'anti-social' Aspergers to full-on Autism. Those are the extreme cases, but consider that there are more people hovering around 'anti-social/introverts' than ever before, whether due to evolution or environmental factors.

A lack of empathy equals a lack of kindness.
~

Anxiety and fear are driving it, IMO. It's not overpopulation per se. While crowded conditions have always led to competition for resources, it doesn't seem to me we are anywhere near as crowded, nor anywhere near as imperiled by competition, as we're constantly being told we are. So despite our standard of living, we've been collectively convinced to adopt a siege mentality that's far better suited to people living in other environments, and it seems likely to me this has led to cognitive dissonance, which leads to further anxiety, which results in less kindness:

• Faced with immediate risk, we are genetically hardwired to respond to defend ourselves before defending others, and to risk our own safety to defend our children from danger.
  
  Over time, we've been conditioned to put our concerns for strangers' wellbeing before our concerns for ourselves - to the point where today we must be told by flight attendants that in an emergency we must put on our own oxygen masks before attempting to help others: we're no good to strangers OR to our children, if we are no longer able to help ourselves.
  
  Continually fearful people are continually torn between the natural urge to protect themselves and the ones they love, and the increasingly strident demands to be more-more-more selfless in the face of looming catastrophes over which we have no control - to set aside our natural responses "for the greater good", even where we can see that the sacrifices we make are more likely to help powerful people than they are to help those who most need the help.

It seems likely to me the increasing anxiety we've been under to "save the world", to set aside ordinary peaceful enjoyment of a normal life "for the greater good", has led to a significant uptick in mental health issues and simultaneously impaired civility.

[fluffy]

I have been thinking about this topic, though. In years past, people were raised with an awareness of their responsibility to the community. Since about the '60s or so (by my estimation, feel free to share your own thoughts) the concept of the self as being more important than the community has been growing. Simply put, people are becoming more selfish. It's all about me-me-me and to heck with the rest. With that trend comes a distinct lack of responsibility - an unwillingness to shoulder any obligation to society, or to do for others. This makes for a pretty toxic culture, in my opinion.

The postwar industrial boom in the fifties led to huge advances in quality of life for the middle class as resources mobilized for the war turned to peacetime consumer markets. If you want to learn about where we went from there I'd say search for a 1970 essay by Milton Friedman titled "The Social Responsibility of Business is to Increase its Profits", six or seven pages that literally changed the world, and follow the breadcrumbs from there.

[normaM]

It would be kind of you all to get me the jacket I am lusting after :)
An Ex had terrible manners, you Can teach an old dog new tricks

[Lady tehMa]

In Lady tehMa’s OP she asks, “ . . . what has happened to "the benefit of the doubt", "civil discourse" and simple "kindness"? Is there any way to get this back?”

And this is meant to be an allegorical yet specific case that’s followed by another question.

So, when you’re having a clumsy ‘senior’s day’ and you make an embarrassing mistake in front of a group and you try to explain and apologize to them, and then you do your best to correct your mistake, and you feel pretty confident that you’ve done what’s required, but one of your caretakers says “not so” and admonishes you for being so clumsy, and not for the first time, and then leaves the last word to someone who’s already tried to build social capital on your mistake, and, well, that’s when you really feel the unkindness of the world and you wish you could just find some way to remove yourself.

Now, should people who step up to fill authoritative positions of power be expected to have and apply some level of awareness and sensitivity training in social settings where seniors are likely to be participating in mixed-crowd discussions and debates?

Also, I'm sorry for the word-salad, still, thanks very much for your kind attention.

And I look forward to reading any replies later on.

Sept

I think the more authority and position one has, the more they are obligated to be empathetic, especially to others that might be within their bailiwick. As per the quote "With great power comes great responsibility" (Spiderman; well, technically I believe the Uncle Ben character within the comic ). They need to be aware of sensitivities and to be gentle when they come across them. But alas, far too often we end up with tyrants.

[nucksRnum1]

I think that there is indeed a lack of kindness. And I think it is a direct reflection of the world that has been given to millenials by boomers. The kindnesses of a good job that could buy you a home and a car. The kindness of having a pension for retirement. The kindness of not having clogged hospitals for medical procedures that boomers don't necessarily need just to get a handicap permit. The kindness of boomers' attitudes towards covid - because of stubbornness and being obtuse about getting shots. An entire demographic will collapse the medical system until there is nothing left. And then the "grandchildren" these people talk about when it comes to taxes they don't like will be left high and dry. So much kindness slathered in greed.

[Rejigger]

^Someone needs a hug.
~

[Rejigger]

In Lady tehMa’s OP she asks, “ . . . what has happened to "the benefit of the doubt", "civil discourse" and simple "kindness"? Is there any way to get this back?”

And this is meant to be an allegorical yet specific case that’s followed by another question.

So, when you’re having a clumsy ‘senior’s day’ and you make an embarrassing mistake in front of a group and you try to explain and apologise to them, and then you do your best to correct your mistake, and you feel pretty confident that you’ve done what’s required, but one of your caretakers says “not so” and admonishes you for being so clumsy, and not for the first time, and then leaves the last word to someone who’s already tried to build social capital on your mistake, and, well, that’s when you really feel the unkindness of the world and you wish you could just find some way to remove yourself.

Now, should people who step up to fill authoritative positions of power be expected to have and apply some level of awareness and sensitivity training in social settings where seniors are likely to be participating in mixed-crowd discussions and debates?

Also, I'm sorry for the word-salad, still, thanks very much for your kind attention.

And I look forward to reading any replies later on.

Sept

I wondered why you had removed the contents of some of you recent posts. I missed the whole thing. Whatever it was, try to shrug it off. Moderators don't see the whole picture, so if you had your hands slapped and you think it was unfair, just know that they probably won't even remember who you are by tomorrow.

Oh lordy, I'll tell ya... The number of idjits on the internet who either intentionally or mistakenly provoke or mislead, double-down when called out, then fluff off into another thread only to do it all over again...?! pfff!

If you're upset about something that happened to you on these boards, it's only because you have a conscience. Not like those I mentioned in the above paragraph^. So chin up, pip pip and remember that nobody here actually cares* that you goofed-up ... power positioned moderators included.

*because we're all focusing on the wording of our own posts, cleverly trying to tell someone to beat a path in such a way as to fly under the mod's radar

PS. I get a chuckle out of you using my nickname in a post only to have it removed by a mod for "making it personal"!
~

[Rejigger]

I wanted to pop back in here to say that there's a certain member who takes a lot of flak on this board - accusations of being a drunk, racist, blah-blah-blah (you know the spiel) - who is going through some health issues right now.

I wish you well. Sincerely.
~