Why we need this vaccine passport mandate (from a vaccinated persons perspective):

[foenix]

What are you writing about and who has the selective memory.....here's what was posted......

Well that answers that question.

LOL!
~

Got me there ........but look like you're in agreement about the vaccinated having less serious problems than the unvaxxed from a Covid infection so I'm glad we had this discussion.

[gad710]

. That's interesting. Why do you say that? Last I checked, there were only 677 people under the age of 80 who have died from Covid in B.C. I wouldn't exactly call that 'dropping like flies'.

Why do you think Florida is doing poorly? In Florida everyone already has access to the vaccine. Compared to places like New York and California they have a very low death rate...?

Oh you mean like this unfortunate stat from the US........


U.S. COVID Deaths Are Rising Again. Experts Call It A 'Pandemic Of The Unvaccinated'

The upward trend in national statistics is being driven almost entirely by outbreaks in places with low vaccination rates, such as the Ozarks, Florida and parts of the Mountain West. Some counties, especially in Missouri and Arkansas, are recording more cases now than they did during the winter.

"Unvaccinated Americans account for virtually all recent COVID-19 hospitalizations and deaths," said Jeff Zients, the White House COVID-19 response coordinator. "Each COVID-19 death is tragic, and those happening now are even more tragic because they are preventable."

https://www.npr.org/2021/07/16/10170029 ... vaccinated

Um you cite an NPR article, so that's pretty lame. It also sounds a lot like what our health officials tells us, same ole fear driven message. Again pitting one against the other.

I know for myself one of the biggest "elephants in the room" is, why are none of our esteemed health care professionals discussing natural immunity? It seems to me personally, that a responsible government would be testing for natural antibodies and allowing for the millions of us that have them. Then working on providing a "therapy (you cant call it a vaccine)" for the rest that are compromised.

Instead, they spend billions upon billions and destroy the fabric of our country pitting one Canadian against the other. Why hide facts like India's success with Ivermectin? Why hide/not report all the information out of Israel? It took months for CBC to publish anything about Israel's current situation, and the jist I got from the article they final posted was lockdowns should have been longer! They have an 85% "therapy" rate for everyone 16 and older in Israel, and over 60% of the covid paitents are double "therapy'd".

Something stinks, they know natural immunity is better than anything, yet they are trying to force an experimental therapy down everyone's throats. Until our government does something I can trust and have belief in, this is all a big money & control grab.

Live in fear if you want too, I choose too not. "Therapy" passports are going to do nothing other than destroy small businesses, and pit us against each other. All of this for a virus with a 99+% survival rate, and don't get me going on "therapying" our children that's just plain wrong, for crying out loud we don't even know what the long term side effects are.

[Rejigger]

.....then you went off on a different tangent about how ineffective the vaccines were against the Delta.....and if you agree with two's statement....

if you catch covid, while being vaccinated, you are less likely to have serious conditions.

Then I guess we are in agreement, the vaccines help the vaccinated from being hospitalized and dying.....is that what you meant by agreeing with two?

Yes, that's ALL the vaccine does - it keeps one out of hospital* - and only for the few months that the vax offers protection.

*except for the elderly and those with co-morbidities, in which case, good luck!

I wasn't off on a tangent. I was showing the facts of how the vaccines lose efficacy in a few short months. Those who received vaccines prior to May of this year are quite possibly relying solely on their own natural immune systems to fight off the virus, and they would be full-on spreading it around to boot (no minimization of viral shed due to having the vaccine). All other vaccinated folk are in some varying degree of a combination vaccine protection and natural immunity due to loss of efficacy.

We cannot hang our hats on this vaccine. Let's stop blaming the unvaxxed for all of our ills.
We may all be considered the equivalent of 'unvaxxed' soon enough.

I wish the government/health experts would start publishing results of TITRE TESTS so that we can stop hating each other already. But they won't do that because they want the self-righteous vaxxed to be at the throats of the unvaxxed.

Meanwhile the (reportedly vaccine resistant) Mu variant is coming.

Please read my post with an open mind so that you can see what the argument is here. In short, I believe this battle is becoming seemingly quite futile very fast.

Caveat: I'm double vaxxed and I'm pro-healthcare (never thought 'pro-healthcare' would ever be a "thing").
~

[foenix]

Oh you mean like this unfortunate stat from the US........


U.S. COVID Deaths Are Rising Again. Experts Call It A 'Pandemic Of The Unvaccinated'




https://www.npr.org/2021/07/16/10170029 ... vaccinated

Um you cite an NPR article, so that's pretty lame. It also sounds a lot like what our health officials tells us, same ole fear driven message. Again pitting one against the other.

I know for myself one of the biggest "elephants in the room" is, why are none of our esteemed health care professionals discussing natural immunity? It seems to me personally, that a responsible government would be testing for natural antibodies and allowing for the millions of us that have them. Then working on providing a "therapy (you cant call it a vaccine)" for the rest that are compromised.

Instead, they spend billions upon billions and destroy the fabric of our country pitting one Canadian against the other. Why hide facts like India's success with Ivermectin? Why hide/not report all the information out of Israel? It took months for CBC to publish anything about Israel's current situation, and the jist I got from the article they final posted was lockdowns should have been longer! They have an 85% "therapy" rate for everyone 16 and older in Israel, and over 60% of the covid paitents are double "therapy'd".

Something stinks, they know natural immunity is better than anything, yet they are trying to force an experimental therapy down everyone's throats. Until our government does something I can trust and have belief in, this is all a big money & control grab.

Live in fear if you want too, I choose too not. "Therapy" passports are going to do nothing other than destroy small businesses, and pit us against each other. All of this for a virus with a 99+% survival rate, and don't get me going on "therapying" our children that's just plain wrong, for crying out loud we don't even know what the long term side effects are.

Doesn't matter if it's NPR article or not, the content will be the same from other sources if you're writing about the increase in hospitalizations and death currently are from the unvaxxed.

I've wrote about this before but here's the problem with natural acquired immunity sans vaccines and no mutations. To achieve herd immunity based on natural acquired immunity, the estimates are that between 60 to 70%of the population needs to be infected with Covid. If the kill ratio of Covid is between 1 to 3% based on when the study was done, thousands of Canadians would have to die before we had a semblance of herd immunity.....here's the math using 65% and 1.5% kill ratio......

37,590,000 X 0.65 = 24,433,500

24,433,500 X .015 = 366,503

So basically to achieve 65% of our population acquiring immunity to the alpha strain of Covid, we would have 366, 503 Canadian dying using the 1.5% kill ratio. Since our current Covid deaths is at 27,229, we would have to have over 10 times the death to even get at 65% herd immunity........see the problem?

[gad710]

.....then you went off on a different tangent about how ineffective the vaccines were against the Delta.....and if you agree with two's statement....



Then I guess we are in agreement, the vaccines help the vaccinated from being hospitalized and dying.....is that what you meant by agreeing with two?

Yes, that's ALL the vaccine does - it keeps one out of hospital* - and only for the few months that the vax offers protection.

*except for the elderly and those with co-morbidities, in which case, good luck!

I wasn't off on a tangent. I was showing the facts of how the vaccines lose efficacy in a few short months. Those who received vaccines prior to May of this year are quite possibly relying solely on their own natural immune systems to fight off the virus, and they would be full-on spreading it around to boot (no minimization of viral shed due to having the vaccine). All other vaccinated folk are in some varying degree of a combination vaccine protection and natural immunity due to loss of efficacy.

We cannot hang our hats on this vaccine. Let's stop blaming the unvaxxed for all of our ills.
We may all be considered the equivalent of 'unvaxxed' soon enough.

I wish the government/health experts would start publishing results of TITRE TESTS so that we can stop hating each other already. But they won't do that because they want the self-righteous vaxxed to be at the throats of the unvaxxed.

Meanwhile the (reportedly vaccine resistant) Mu variant is coming.

Please read my post with an open mind so that you can see what the argument is here. In short, I believe this battle is becoming seemingly quite futile very fast.

Caveat: I'm double vaxxed and I'm pro-healthcare (never thought 'pro-healthcare' would ever be a "thing").
~

Great post. There was a point in time where pro-healthcare wasn't a thing, as we TRUSTED our government. Sadly I think those days are gone.

[foenix]

.....then you went off on a different tangent about how ineffective the vaccines were against the Delta.....and if you agree with two's statement....



Then I guess we are in agreement, the vaccines help the vaccinated from being hospitalized and dying.....is that what you meant by agreeing with two?

Yes, that's ALL the vaccine does - it keeps one out of hospital* - and only for the few months that the vax offers protection.

*except for the elderly and those with co-morbidities, in which case, good luck!

I wasn't off on a tangent. I was showing the facts of how the vaccines lose efficacy in a few short months. Those who received vaccines prior to May of this year are quite possibly relying solely on their own natural immune systems to fight off the virus, and they would be full-on spreading it around to boot (no minimization of viral shed due to having the vaccine). All other vaccinated folk are in some varying degree of a combination vaccine protection and natural immunity due to loss of efficacy.
~

It's obvious the vaccines are helping the vaccinated from winding up in the hospital and it's certainly longer than a few months or we wouldn't see lopsided real world data that says between 80 to 90% of the hospitalizations are from the unvaxxed. If the vaccines weren't effective after a few months then the stats would be closer to 50/50 and they're not.

Also, your getting natural acquired immunity and immunity from vaccines mixed up, they aren't the same.

[Rejigger]

Um you cite an NPR article, so that's pretty lame. It also sounds a lot like what our health officials tells us, same ole fear driven message. Again pitting one against the other.

I know for myself one of the biggest "elephants in the room" is, why are none of our esteemed health care professionals discussing natural immunity? It seems to me personally, that a responsible government would be testing for natural antibodies and allowing for the millions of us that have them. [snip]...

Until our government does something I can trust and have belief in, this is all a big money & control grab. [snip]...

Let's not kid ourselves, the government knows what the titer numbers are. Why would they not know that, right?
I remember seeing reports, long before the vaccine was widely available in NA, of those who had been exposed to covid and showed antibodies in their systems for only a few months post-infection. The government now knows that the same holds true for vaccinated people.

As for your mention of treatments: Ivermectin has become the butt of jokes lately and Regeneron is never discussed. Yet Regeneron is one of the meds that pulled Trump back from the brink of death, along with other undisclosed medications/therapies, of which Ivermectin may have been one of them (who knows?).

I think you're being reasonable when you ask why we're vaccinating everyone (while the virus mutates faster) rather than treating only those who need treatment.

If the government was more transparent with the information, I think fewer people would be suspicious of the government.

[Rejigger]

I wasn't off on a tangent. I was showing the facts of how the vaccines lose efficacy in a few short months. Those who received vaccines prior to May of this year are quite possibly relying solely on their own natural immune systems to fight off the virus, and they would be full-on spreading it around to boot (no minimization of viral shed due to having the vaccine). All other vaccinated folk are in some varying degree of a combination vaccine protection and natural immunity due to loss of efficacy.

It's obvious the vaccines are helping the vaccinated from winding up in the hospital and it's certainly longer than a few months or we wouldn't see lopsided real world data that says between 80 to 90% of the hospitalizations are from the unvaxxed. If the vaccines weren't protecting after a few months then the stats would be closer to 50/50 and they're not.

In fact, last I checked, the stats out of Israel are showing that for hospitalized cases 60% are vaccinated and 40% are unvaxxed. It was 50/50 a couple of weeks ago. Again, though, the BCCDC website explains why percentages should not be used - and I agree, but am responding to your use of percentages.

Also, your getting natural acquired immunity and immunity from vaccines mixed up, they aren't the same.

I stated them as two separate things ("a combination of"), so not sure why you suggest I said otherwise?
~

[gad710]

Um you cite an NPR article, so that's pretty lame. It also sounds a lot like what our health officials tells us, same ole fear driven message. Again pitting one against the other.

I know for myself one of the biggest "elephants in the room" is, why are none of our esteemed health care professionals discussing natural immunity? It seems to me personally, that a responsible government would be testing for natural antibodies and allowing for the millions of us that have them. Then working on providing a "therapy (you cant call it a vaccine)" for the rest that are compromised.

Instead, they spend billions upon billions and destroy the fabric of our country pitting one Canadian against the other. Why hide facts like India's success with Ivermectin? Why hide/not report all the information out of Israel? It took months for CBC to publish anything about Israel's current situation, and the jist I got from the article they final posted was lockdowns should have been longer! They have an 85% "therapy" rate for everyone 16 and older in Israel, and over 60% of the covid paitents are double "therapy'd".

Something stinks, they know natural immunity is better than anything, yet they are trying to force an experimental therapy down everyone's throats. Until our government does something I can trust and have belief in, this is all a big money & control grab.

Live in fear if you want too, I choose too not. "Therapy" passports are going to do nothing other than destroy small businesses, and pit us against each other. All of this for a virus with a 99+% survival rate, and don't get me going on "therapying" our children that's just plain wrong, for crying out loud we don't even know what the long term side effects are.

Doesn't matter if it's NPR article or not, the content will be the same from other sources if you're writing about the increase in hospitalizations and death currently are from the unvaxxed.

I've wrote about this before but here's the problem with natural acquired immunity sans vaccines and no mutations. To achieve herd immunity based on natural acquired immunity, the estimates are that between 60 to 70%of the population needs to be infected with Covid. If the kill ratio of Covid is between 1 to 3% based on when the study was done, thousands of Canadians would have to die before we had a semblance of herd immunity.....here's the math using 65% and 1.5% kill ratio......

37,590,000 X 0.65 = 24,433,500

24,433,500 X .015 = 366,503

So basically to achieve 65% of our population acquiring immunity to the alpha strain of Covid, we would have 366, 503 Canadian dying using the 1.5% kill ratio. Since our current Covid deaths is at 27,229, we would have to have over 10 times the death to even get at 65% herd immunity........see the problem?

I expect nothing more from you, why not toss up the actual study's that show a 1.5% death rate? Load of crap.
heres some current links you can try to refute:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ce=twitter
https://alexberenson.substack.com/p/boost-the-insanity
https://www.thedailybeast.com/ultra-vac ... to-america
https://www.theblaze.com/op-ed/horowitz ... d-vaccines

Plus were not on alpha anymore, so your argument is moot. The facts as I see them is that more people are infected now since the "therapy" then ever. And to top it off, show me one study that proves that therapy keeps you out of hospitals more than your natural immunity. Quit being a talking head. Israels own health department had published facts on medrix, proving natural immunity is better. 1.5% death rate, puhlease.

[gad710]

Um you cite an NPR article, so that's pretty lame. It also sounds a lot like what our health officials tells us, same ole fear driven message. Again pitting one against the other.

I know for myself one of the biggest "elephants in the room" is, why are none of our esteemed health care professionals discussing natural immunity? It seems to me personally, that a responsible government would be testing for natural antibodies and allowing for the millions of us that have them. [snip]...

Until our government does something I can trust and have belief in, this is all a big money & control grab. [snip]...

Let's not kid ourselves, the government knows what the titer numbers are. Why would they not know that, right?
I remember seeing reports, long before the vaccine was widely available in NA, of those who had been exposed to covid and showed antibodies in their systems for only a few months post-infection. The government now knows that the same holds true for vaccinated people.

As for your mention of treatments: Ivermectin has become the butt of jokes lately and Regeneron is never discussed. Yet Regeneron is one of the meds that pulled Trump back from the brink of death, along with other undisclosed medications/therapies, of which Ivermectin may have been one of them (who knows?).

I think you're being reasonable when you ask why we're vaccinating everyone (while the virus mutates faster) rather than treating only those who need treatment.

If the government was more transparent with the information, I think fewer people would be suspicious of the government.

I totally agree with your post, hopefully more Canadians will wake up. Something Stinks.

[two]

Just how we inform ourselves is of paramount importance these days, and truly one of the biggest challenges. First and foremost is determining the credibility of a source, and not just hop on board because they're saying something that fits your mood.

The vaccine debate is an excellent example. People will glom on to some little tidbit of information from an unvetted and unknown source because it supports their preconceived notion that they're the victim of some massive conspiracy, all the while ignoring the evidence that is before their own eyes. An easy conclusion to draw is that because most hospitalized cases by far are unvaccinated people it's safe to conclude that the vaccines are effective in that they reduce the severity of infection. Isn't that important ? Reduce the load on hospitals suffering from staff shortages and reducing the instances of serious health issue and death ? It's not a black and white situation, it's about doing our best to deal with a constantly evolving situation. Sowing distrust in government and our health professionals accomplishes nothing but slowing down progress against the virus.

I am sewing distrust in them(leaders and MSM) in general since they have been disingenuous so often, if you want to have a real debate on that subject I am more then prepared to. It is for that reason so many do distrust but then latch on to misinfo, this is the MSM and leaders fault not mine. This is the real problem of our age, letting facebook, twitter, CBC etc censorship issues will not solve the problems we face.

The authoritarianism in information they are willing to stamp around with only shows malice in my eyes.

To me your statement is utter hypocrisy. "The vaccine debate is an excellent example. People will glom on to some little tidbit of information from an unvetted and unknown source because it supports their preconceived notion that they're the victim of some massive conspiracy, all the while ignoring the evidence that is before their own eyes."

With slight alterations to the verbiage, you are more then willing to sacrifice our freedoms while glazing over facts and being ok with censorship of facts and disingenuous media narratives ?

Yes it is important to stop the spread and reduce loads I agree! There are many ways to do this.. shaming people, ordering the unwilling and creating a hostile environment of division with hubris is not helpful it will cause greater problems. It is these things that our government seems so willing to do that are hurtful.

Here is a fresh new example of ridicules opinions https://www.castanet.net/edition/news-s ... htm#345621

If that is true then I think we should deny problems related to: sporting accidents, alcohol, smoking, babies with parents that had known pre existing condtions, speeders, no seat belts, obesity related ailments, farmers using known harmful chemicals etc etc ... hell get rid of universal medicare the US system is better and could be improved by removing any tax funded medical.. (I believe in universal medicare this is just a point)

.....then you went off on a different tangent about how ineffective the vaccines were against the Delta.....and if you agree with two's statement....

Then I guess we are in agreement, the vaccines help the vaccinated from being hospitalized and dying.....is that what you meant by agreeing with two?

Yes, that's ALL the vaccine does - it keeps one out of hospital* - and only for the few months that the vax offers protection.

*except for the elderly and those with co-morbidities, in which case, good luck!

I wasn't off on a tangent. I was showing the facts of how the vaccines lose efficacy in a few short months. Those who received vaccines prior to May of this year are quite possibly relying solely on their own natural immune systems to fight off the virus, and they would be full-on spreading it around to boot (no minimization of viral shed due to having the vaccine). All other vaccinated folk are in some varying degree of a combination vaccine protection and natural immunity due to loss of efficacy.

We cannot hang our hats on this vaccine. Let's stop blaming the unvaxxed for all of our ills.
We may all be considered the equivalent of 'unvaxxed' soon enough.

I wish the government/health experts would start publishing results of TITRE TESTS so that we can stop hating each other already. But they won't do that because they want the self-righteous vaxxed to be at the throats of the unvaxxed.

Meanwhile the (reportedly vaccine resistant) Mu variant is coming.

Please read my post with an open mind so that you can see what the argument is here. In short, I believe this battle is becoming seemingly quite futile very fast.

Caveat: I'm double vaxxed and I'm pro-healthcare (never thought 'pro-healthcare' would ever be a "thing").
~

I get this same impression they have glossed over any of our arguments and continue to skirt them with arguments that falsely presume our opinions on things we clearly agree with already. Futile is a understatement.. Sadly this type of thinking seems pervasive among many here and is the foundation of broken rhetorical thinking(since some rhetorical thinking is correct and well founded). I do not think we can have a debate in good faith or open mindedness. They simply lack the skills of understanding what is being presented while assuming falsities of their opponents, there is clearly something that was never learned in critical thinking skills that can engage in comprehensive debate and avoid presumptions based on fallacy. They also assume they have victory because "even two agrees" hahaha. Yes I never disputed some of those facts and any disputes I have made are completely ignored or misinterpreted.

When I make the main point of why so many remain unvaccinated I get echoed B$ arguments that hold no water to my statements that usually just skirt the point with some other unrelated point. before (but less now) they would argue safety of loved ones and stopping the spread or relate these to polio vaccinations.. its not relatable these vaccinations do not stop the spread.

To be totally clear my arguments are with mandates, medical freedom and privacy and the clearly illogical need for passports when the vaccinated can spread it enough that it cannot be contained from a low enough transmissibility following the vaccination.
which leads us to conclusions about how much misinformation and disingenuous lopsided reporting comes from our apparent MSM journalists that has been clearly broken for decades and usually serves a purpose outside of the common good (usually profits) where real facts get ignored, swept away, and perverted to a cherry picked narrative.

Look at the 6000 dead from 911, resulting in continuous wars that kills tenfold*2 more in innocent people (low estimate) and a narrative that concluded and repeated every day from the MSM that there are weapons of mass destruction from some evil dude that the US put in place to begin with.

Look at how they the president claims caring for womens rights on the same day a bomb hits a school killing women and children. or the ammount of innocent poeple killed by a drone to kill some suicide bombers. *bleep* is wrong with our population for accepting this trash and glazing over all those facts why demanding the unvaccinated are greedy and need to be forced and coerced with threats ?

There are so many examples of how despicable the reported info is by the MSM that its not hard to believe the fabric of trust is lost.. but rather then have humility and recognize that is a reason people have lost trust, other MSM trusting people are now tyrannically stamping their feet to freedom with some facts that IMO hardly justify their fear and demands because unchanging/predictable stastics have been shown to them 50 times a day with a narrative that instills fear and tells them all the despicable things they should demand.

Does anyone want to know some good reasons why not to get the vaccine, FACTS that will be hard to correct but easy to dismiss because of just how big the problems are and mental laziness, reasons why many will remain unvaccinated? and why mandates will not do anything but further us as a heavily divided and fractured population that will probably never solve our democratic problems?

[foenix]

I expect nothing more from you, why not toss up the actual study's that show a 1.5% death rate? Load of crap.
heres some current links you can try to refute:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ce=twitter
https://alexberenson.substack.com/p/boost-the-insanity
https://www.thedailybeast.com/ultra-vac ... to-america
https://www.theblaze.com/op-ed/horowitz ... d-vaccines

Plus were not on alpha anymore, so your argument is moot. The facts as I see them is that more people are infected now since the "therapy" then ever. And to top it off, show me one study that proves that therapy keeps you out of hospitals more than your natural immunity. Quit being a talking head. Israels own health department had published facts on medrix, proving natural immunity is better. 1.5% death rate, puhlease.

You can do your own research but here's one.......the % numbers vary depending on when and where the study was done.

Infection Fatality Rate (IFR) = Deaths / Cases = 23,430 / 1,694,781 = 1.4% (1.4% of people infected with SARS-CoV-2 have a fatal outcome, while 98.6% recover).

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavir ... eath-rate/

There's other studies that says, the world wide deaths might be grossly under reported.

http://www.healthdata.org/special-analy ... -19-deaths

I just set the conditions for the theoretical herd immunity scenario, it could easily be for the Delta but obviously the scenario would have to have been in the beginning as that scenario is no longer possible with natural acquired immunity leading to herd immunity because we have the vaccines now.

Those links are nothing new about the vaccinated catching Covid along with the unvaccinated......but any explanation on why it's mostly the UNVACCINATED that are dying and landing in the hospital presently?..........gasp....could it possibly because of the vaccines?

[Rejigger]

Those links are nothing new about the vaccinated catching Covid along with the unvaccinated......but any explanation on why it's mostly the UNVACCINATED that are dying and landing in the hospital presently?..........gasp....could it possibly because of the vaccines?

Again, we're in agreement that vaccines have kept people out of the hospital. For a time. Until the vaccines fail - which is what's happening.

The vaccines are failing because they lose efficacy over a short period of time - whether because the vaccine's effectiveness wanes (wears off too quickly) or because the vaccines weren't formulated for variants (Delta and Mu, for example).

Where we can't seem to agree is that vaccines are not a long-term solution. While you're still parroting the government by telling everyone to get vaccinated, others are seeing what's coming down the pike and thinking, 'Holy hell, we have to find another way to combat this.'

Curious, why do you think the number of hospitalized cases have gone up since Jul 3rd*? If the vaccines worked, why did the virus continue to spread? For the answer, see paragraph 2 above.

*see the graphs on page 8 of this thread regarding hospitalizations and sources of spread
~

[Rejigger]

Yes it is important to stop the spread and reduce loads I agree! There are many ways to do this.. shaming people, ordering the unwilling and creating a hostile environment of division with hubris is not helpful it will cause greater problems. It is these things that our government seems so willing to do that are hurtful.

To be totally clear my arguments are with mandates, medical freedom and privacy and the clearly illogical need for passports when the vaccinated can spread it enough that it cannot be contained from a low enough transmissibility following the vaccination.
which leads us to conclusions about how much misinformation and disingenuous lopsided reporting comes from our apparent MSM journalists that has been clearly broken for decades and usually serves a purpose outside of the common good (usually profits) where real facts get ignored, swept away, and perverted to a cherry picked narrative.

To be totally clear, my arguments are ALSO with "mandates, medical freedom and privacy and the clearly illogical need for passports when the vaccinated can spread it enough that it cannot be contained from a low enough transmissibility following the vaccination."

I'd be remiss not to mention the surge in cases amongst children who are too young to vaccinate.

If this virus ever goes away, it will not be from anything that humans are currently doing.
~

[two]

Yes it is important to stop the spread and reduce loads I agree! There are many ways to do this.. shaming people, ordering the unwilling and creating a hostile environment of division with hubris is not helpful it will cause greater problems. It is these things that our government seems so willing to do that are hurtful.

To be totally clear my arguments are with mandates, medical freedom and privacy and the clearly illogical need for passports when the vaccinated can spread it enough that it cannot be contained from a low enough transmissibility following the vaccination.
which leads us to conclusions about how much misinformation and disingenuous lopsided reporting comes from our apparent MSM journalists that has been clearly broken for decades and usually serves a purpose outside of the common good (usually profits) where real facts get ignored, swept away, and perverted to a cherry picked narrative.

To be totally clear, my arguments are ALSO with "mandates, medical freedom and privacy and the clearly illogical need for passports when the vaccinated can spread it enough that it cannot be contained from a low enough transmissibility following the vaccination."

I'd be remiss not to mention the surge in cases amongst children who are too young to vaccinate.

If this virus ever goes away, it will not be from anything that humans are currently doing.
~

There is a solid dose of truth. It is not going away, your probably going to get it sometime in the future vaccinated or not, maybe multiple times over.. Do you want a passport? are those protesting it and mandates jerks or do you think the topic needs more thought?