Why we need this vaccine passport mandate (from a vaccinated persons perspective):

[fluffy]

Do you want a passport? are those protesting it and mandates jerks or do you think the topic needs more thought?

The whole issue is constantly evolving as new variants appear. I will go with what we do know, that the vaccines, while not 100% effective as we have learned, do lower the odds of contracting and/or transmitting the disease, and have been shown to be effective in reducing severe cases, hospitalization, and death.

However, the risk for SARS-CoV-2 breakthrough infection in fully vaccinated people cannot be completely eliminated as long as there is continued community transmission of the virus.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... eople.html

So yes, I am in favor of any measure that reduces the chance of community transmission, including vaccine passports. The idea that because cases are still managing to sneak through our defenses that we should abandon those defenses altogether is totally without merit.

I will not subscribe to the idea that our government agencies are perpetrating some nefarious plot upon us or any of the other tinfoil hat crap currently in over-supply.

[foenix]

Those links are nothing new about the vaccinated catching Covid along with the unvaccinated......but any explanation on why it's mostly the UNVACCINATED that are dying and landing in the hospital presently?..........gasp....could it possibly because of the vaccines?

Again, we're in agreement that vaccines have kept people out of the hospital. For a time. Until the vaccines fail - which is what's happening.

The vaccines are failing because they lose efficacy over a short period of time - whether because the vaccine's effectiveness wanes (wears off too quickly) or because the vaccines weren't formulated for variants (Delta and Mu, for example).

Where we can't seem to agree is that vaccines are not a long-term solution. While you're still parroting the government by telling everyone to get vaccinated, others are seeing what's coming down the pike and thinking, 'Holy hell, we have to find another way to combat this.'

Curious, why do you think the number of hospitalized cases have gone up since Jul 3rd*? If the vaccines worked, why did the virus continue to spread? For the answer, see paragraph 2 above.

*see the graphs on page 8 of this thread regarding hospitalizations and sources of spread
~

I hate to break it to you Rej, those graph does nothing to support your position that the vaccines are failing. There's no data on those graphs that breaks down the infections for those that were vaccinated or not. In fact, the first graph along with boots on the ground reporting supports the position that the vaccines are working to keep those that got them from serious hospitalizations and deaths.

The graph for the increase in hospitalized cases is an easy one to answer as most hospitalized and death since July 3td is mostly from the unvaxxed group so I guess the lesson there is to get your vaccinations if one doesn't want to land up in the hospital and possibly dying.

[fluffy]

When I make the main point of why so many remain unvaccinated I get echoed B$ arguments that hold no water to my statements that usually just skirt the point with some other unrelated point. before (but less now) they would argue safety of loved ones and stopping the spread or relate these to polio vaccinations.. its not relatable these vaccinations do not stop the spread.

No, but they do slow it down, and that's important. As more people get vaccinated and infection rates drop, the few remaining become less of a threat.

[two]

asdf

[grabreck]

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[grabreck]

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[gad710]

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[Rejigger]

I hate to break it to you Rej, those graph does nothing to support your position that the vaccines are failing.

That statement didn't age well at all. Of course the vaccines are failing, hence the need for more vaccines. Third* doses are being administered or are on the way, depending on age/circumstances (*second doses for J&J vaccine).

It was the data out of Israel where I learned that the vaccines were failing. I've been encouraging others to follow what's happening in Israel. Still do, in fact.

~

[OKkayak]

That statement didn't age well at all. Of course the vaccines are failing, hence the need for more vaccines. Third* doses are being administered or are on the way, depending on age/circumstances (*second doses for J&J vaccine).

It was the data out of Israel where I learned that the vaccines were failing. I've been encouraging others to follow what's happening in Israel. Still do, in fact.

~

The vaccines weren't designed for the variants, they were designed for the original strain. Regardless, the vaccines are providing protection for the majority of the population.

But please, do continue, your posts, while completely uninformative, are highly entertaining

[Rejigger]

Yes, I love the argument that "The vaccines don't stop people from contracting and spreading the virus because they were designed for a different variant of this virus." To summarize, the vaccines won't stop this virus. Ever. Have we learned nothing from the flu virus? When do you think they'll develop a vaccine for "this" variant? (which variant? there are so many now) Why haven't they tweaked the vaccine yet? Hmmm?

Next argument: "Everything is the fault of the unvaccinated. ...Oh, say what now? I, too, am considered to be unvaccinated at this point? Vaccine wane????"

Meanwhile kids are spreading the virus. "Better start vaccinating from age zero up. If we can't direct our hatred towards kids, we can still direct it towards the parents of the unvaxxed kids. C'mon Bonnie Henry, just tell us that kids should get the vaccine 'cause I'm about to explode with all this hatred building inside me. Need more people to direct it at."

The vaccinated can also carry and spread the virus. "Hey, why are you glaring at me? That sneeze was from dust. Honest! I don't have the covid. *spoken in the most self-righteous tone* I'm vaccinated!"

Stop the hysteria.

~

[fluffy]

It's more than a little sensational to label the vaccines a "failure", we'd be in a mess without them. As I've said more than once, this is an evolving situation. That the vaccines have been successful in slowing transmission to some degree is fact. That they loose efficacy over time in light of the mutations the virus is producing is also evident, but this is not a failure. The argument against precautions and restrictions is based on twisted facts and outright misinformation. If there is any "failure" to talk about, it would be the failure to address the simple facts that most of the cases requiring hospitalization are among the unvaccinated, and that there is an obvious correlation between case counts and vaccination rates when comparing geographical locations.

[OKkayak]

Yes, I love the argument that "The vaccines don't stop people from contracting and spreading the virus because they were designed for a different variant of this virus." To summarize, the vaccines won't stop this virus. Ever. Have we learned nothing from the flu virus? When do you think they'll develop a vaccine for "this" variant? (which variant? there are so many now) Why haven't they tweaked the vaccine yet? Hmmm?

Next argument: "Everything is the fault of the unvaccinated. ...Oh, say what now? I, too, am considered to be unvaccinated at this point? Vaccine wane????"

Meanwhile kids are spreading the virus. "Better start vaccinating from age zero up. If we can't direct our hatred towards kids, we can still direct it towards the parents of the unvaxxed kids. C'mon Bonnie Henry, just tell us that kids should get the vaccine 'cause I'm about to explode with all this hatred building inside me. Need more people to direct it at."

The vaccinated can also carry and spread the virus. "Hey, why are you glaring at me? That sneeze was from dust. Honest! I don't have the covid. *spoken in the most self-righteous tone* I'm vaccinated!"

Stop the hysteria.

~

Of course you love that argument, ignoring science gives much needed fuel for your nonsense propaganda.

[firsttimecaller]

Yes, I love the argument that "The vaccines don't stop people from contracting and spreading the virus because they were designed for a different variant of this virus." To summarize, the vaccines won't stop this virus. Ever. Have we learned nothing from the flu virus? When do you think they'll develop a vaccine for "this" variant? (which variant? there are so many now) Why haven't they tweaked the vaccine yet? Hmmm?

Next argument: "Everything is the fault of the unvaccinated. ...Oh, say what now? I, too, am considered to be unvaccinated at this point? Vaccine wane????"

Meanwhile kids are spreading the virus. "Better start vaccinating from age zero up. If we can't direct our hatred towards kids, we can still direct it towards the parents of the unvaxxed kids. C'mon Bonnie Henry, just tell us that kids should get the vaccine 'cause I'm about to explode with all this hatred building inside me. Need more people to direct it at."

The vaccinated can also carry and spread the virus. "Hey, why are you glaring at me? That sneeze was from dust. Honest! I don't have the covid. *spoken in the most self-righteous tone* I'm vaccinated!"

Stop the hysteria.

~

Of course you love that argument, ignoring science gives much needed fuel for your nonsense propaganda.

I have read the post you are quoting a few times over and I don't see any part of it that qualifies as "ignoring science".

It seems "ignoring science" has become a catch phrase used by those who don't understand science.

[OKkayak]

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[firsttimecaller]

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