BKR. Vaccine Hesitant

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Silverstarqueen
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Re: Vaccine Hesitant

Post by Silverstarqueen »

Albertans suddenly seem to be overcoming their "vaccine hesitancy"
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/a ... NewsSearch
Silverstarqueen
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Re: Vaccine Hesitant

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so I was looking at one of these stories where a 33 year old (jordan hayes) supposedly died of Covid vaccine. But the story doesn't seem to fit that narrative. Vaccinated first on Feb 23, hypothetically would have had his second dose three weeks later, mar 15, he dies after sudden heart attack and two surgeries. almost four months later. That was his cause of death. No where does it state that his death was due to a vaccine that he got four month previous. no report of problems after the vaccine, then he suddenly dies, from strokes which can happen after heart surgery.
This is why it is difficult to give much credence to these kinds of claims. I just picked one at random, so it's not like I combed a bunch of plausible stories and then came on this one.
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Kelownamade
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Re: Vaccine Hesitant

Post by Kelownamade »

Silverstarqueen wrote: Sep 18th, 2021, 10:28 pm so I was looking at one of these stories where a 33 year old (jordan hayes) supposedly died of Covid vaccine. But the story doesn't seem to fit that narrative. Vaccinated first on Feb 23, hypothetically would have had his second dose three weeks later, mar 15, he dies after sudden heart attack and two surgeries. almost four months later. That was his cause of death. No where does it state that his death was due to a vaccine that he got four month previous. no report of problems after the vaccine, then he suddenly dies, from strokes which can happen after heart surgery.
This is why it is difficult to give much credence to these kinds of claims. I just picked one at random, so it's not like I combed a bunch of plausible stories and then came on this one.
.
Well I can assure you this is not the norm. You "randomly" chose this one?? I find that hard to believe. The science shows this vaccine is dangerous, the damage is being censored, the experts with differing opinions are being censored, random fact checkers are supposedly more credible then experts, everyone is being conhersed into taking it (why?) cases have risen massively only after the vaccine. There are large points showing this is not a health issue. If you spent some time research psychology, you would see the clear cases of people denying reality in order to feel safe. The world is not safe and once you accept that there are very evil people who need to be watched so they don't do what they are doing.
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Poindexter
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Re: Vaccine Hesitant

Post by Poindexter »

Kelownamade wrote: Sep 19th, 2021, 4:10 am There are large points showing this is not a health issue. If you spent some time research psychology, you would see the clear cases of people denying reality in order to feel safe. The world is not safe and once you accept that there are very evil people who need to be watched so they don't do what they are doing.
I have to agree that it has meandered from a physical health issue to a mental health issue. One common theme I find with arguments posed by the vaccine hesitant is the unconscious use of protection in an effort to defend a position that data doesn't support.

"Psychological projection is a defense mechanism in which the ego defends itself against unconscious impulses or qualities (both positive and negative) by denying their existence in themselves and attributing them to others.[1] A bully may project their own feelings of vulnerability onto the target, or a person who is confused may project feelings of confusion and inadequacy onto other people. Projection incorporates blame shifting and can manifest as shame dumping.[2] Projection has been described as an early phase of introjection.[3]"
Remember: Humans are 99% chimp.
Kelownamade
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Re: Vaccine Hesitant

Post by Kelownamade »

Poindexter wrote: Sep 19th, 2021, 6:00 am
Kelownamade wrote: Sep 19th, 2021, 4:10 am There are large points showing this is not a health issue. If you spent some time research psychology, you would see the clear cases of people denying reality in order to feel safe. The world is not safe and once you accept that there are very evil people who need to be watched so they don't do what they are doing.
I have to agree that it has meandered from a physical health issue to a mental health issue. One common theme I find with arguments posed by the vaccine hesitant is the unconscious use of protection in an effort to defend a position that data doesn't support.

"Psychological projection is a defense mechanism in which the ego defends itself against unconscious impulses or qualities (both positive and negative) by denying their existence in themselves and attributing them to others.[1] A bully may project their own feelings of vulnerability onto the target, or a person who is confused may project feelings of confusion and inadequacy onto other people. Projection incorporates blame shifting and can manifest as shame dumping.[2] Projection has been described as an early phase of introjection.[3]"
What? The data shows massive increase in cases post vaccination. What don't you understand about this data? The number of people hurt or killed by the vaccine is very high. Social media and the actual media are refusing to allow people to report their claims. Why? I have found the vaccinated refuse to see the blatant crimes being done to doctors and society. Why are doctors not allowed to prescribe what drugs they see as effective? They spent 10 years becoming qualified to make those decisions. The post on a media page on facebook has 200 000 comments of people reporting their experience with this vaccine causing harm or death. Why is it that when people die after the shot, it's never blamed on the vaccine yet when people with 4 comorbidities that die with covid are automatically healthy and wouldn't have died unless they got covid? If you are not going to be consistent with your observations, it's clearly you are refusing to see the facts in order to make yourself feel better. Doctors just spoke to the FDA about the booster shots and they successfully convinced them that the vaccine is more dangerous than covid and that they would be unethical to approve the boosters. I listen to all experts on both sides. I have no loyalty to anything but the truth. Why wouldn't I want a vaccine that actually fixes the problem? If it worked and was safe, life could go back to normal. Sadly this isn't what is happening. I'm finding the western world is far more naive to what the true nature of politicians are today. The other parts of the world know exactly how tyranny looks and are standing up. Over here many are willing to throw people in camps for not taking an experimental deadly shot.
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Thinktank
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Re: Vaccine Hesitant

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If you have to be persuaded reminded bullied pressured bribed incentivized, lied to, guilt tripped, coerced, socially shamed, censored, threatened, paid, punished and criminalized, to gain your compliance- the thing is no good
rustled
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Re: Vaccine Hesitant

Post by rustled »

Silverstarqueen wrote: Sep 18th, 2021, 9:39 pm Albertans suddenly seem to be overcoming their "vaccine hesitancy"
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/a ... NewsSearch
This shouldn't be surprising. People who have been weighing their risks and benefits are making choices based on what they see as the greatest risk, and more of them now see vaccination as less risky - so they are choosing the shot over what they now see as the greater risk. It seems to me the objective of this post is to mock them for their caution, regardless of the choice they make. Maintaining this sort of divisiveness serves no one, IMO.
...do some internal evaluation; Are you aiming to tell the truth or just "win"? Are you aiming to inform or to promote a narrative? Have you checked your facts or are you just accepting what you are told? Ad Nausica
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Poindexter
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Re: Vaccine Hesitant

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Kelownamade wrote: Sep 19th, 2021, 7:16 am What? The data shows massive increase in cases post vaccination. What don't you understand about this data?
A vital step in understanding the data is understanding how a vaccine works and many clearly don't. The main misconception is that a vaccine is some sort of shield that stops the virus from entering the body, this is false, the vaccinated will catch the virus at the exact same rate as the unvaccinated. Things that stop the transmission are masks, washing hands, quarantining the sick and ultimately eliminating the virus completely through herd immunity.

To understand how a vaccine works it's important to also understand why some people get extremely sick or die while others can catch it and be asymptomatic. The difference is how quickly the individual's immune system recognizes the virus as a foreign invader and begins the attack. In an unvaccinated or immune compromised individual this recognition can take far too long allowing the viral load to expand exponentially, overwhelming the body so that even after recognizing the invader, it is unable to produce enough antibodies and hospitalization is required. The vaccine simply gives the immune system a heads up by informing it what the invader looks like and a head start on the development of the antibodies. This dramatically reduces the impact of the virus on the vaccinated individual and on health care resources since they rarely require the more intensive treatment on the rare occasion they are admitted to a hospital.

Hope this helps because when you continue pointing to the fact vaccinated people are still catching Covid as proof the vaccine doesn't work, you're not only misleading yourself but others who are also looking to have their disinformed, and potentially dire opinions confirmed.
Remember: Humans are 99% chimp.
DoubleB12
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Re: Vaccine Hesitant

Post by DoubleB12 »

Silverstarqueen wrote: Sep 18th, 2021, 9:39 pm Albertans suddenly seem to be overcoming their "vaccine hesitancy"
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/a ... NewsSearch
So just like here in BC, just the thought or now implementation of the vaxport has caused a mass increase in jabs!! Now while there has been many debates on the validity of this measure, it simply goes to show that it really is a way to get people who may have been hesitant, or even against it to give in!!
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Re: Vaccine Hesitant

Post by DoubleB12 »

Silverstarqueen wrote: Sep 18th, 2021, 10:28 pm so I was looking at one of these stories where a 33 year old (jordan hayes) supposedly died of Covid vaccine. But the story doesn't seem to fit that narrative. Vaccinated first on Feb 23, hypothetically would have had his second dose three weeks later, mar 15, he dies after sudden heart attack and two surgeries. almost four months later. That was his cause of death. No where does it state that his death was due to a vaccine that he got four month previous. no report of problems after the vaccine, then he suddenly dies, from strokes which can happen after heart surgery.
This is why it is difficult to give much credence to these kinds of claims. I just picked one at random, so it's not like I combed a bunch of plausible stories and then came on this one.
.
Sorry Queeny, since you request links for others "stories/opinions".....its your turn to "woman-up" and let other's judge the "validity" of your post!! [icon_lol2.gif] :smt045
rustled
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Re: Vaccine Hesitant

Post by rustled »

Poindexter wrote: Sep 19th, 2021, 8:39 am
Kelownamade wrote: Sep 19th, 2021, 7:16 am What? The data shows massive increase in cases post vaccination. What don't you understand about this data?
A vital step in understanding the data is understanding how a vaccine works and many clearly don't. The main misconception is that a vaccine is some sort of shield that stops the virus from entering the body, this is false, the vaccinated will catch the virus at the exact same rate as the unvaccinated.
Where did you get the information I've highlighted in your post, Poindexter? It seems to disagree with what the experts are telling us. For example,
Vaccines continue to reduce a person’s risk of contracting the virus that cause COVID-19, including this variant.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... efits.html
...do some internal evaluation; Are you aiming to tell the truth or just "win"? Are you aiming to inform or to promote a narrative? Have you checked your facts or are you just accepting what you are told? Ad Nausica
Kelownamade
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Re: Vaccine Hesitant

Post by Kelownamade »

Poindexter wrote: Sep 19th, 2021, 8:39 am
Kelownamade wrote: Sep 19th, 2021, 7:16 am What? The data shows massive increase in cases post vaccination. What don't you understand about this data?
A vital step in understanding the data is understanding how a vaccine works and many clearly don't. The main misconception is that a vaccine is some sort of shield that stops the virus from entering the body, this is false, the vaccinated will catch the virus at the exact same rate as the unvaccinated. Things that stop the transmission are masks, washing hands, quarantining the sick and ultimately eliminating the virus completely through herd immunity.

To understand how a vaccine works it's important to also understand why some people get extremely sick or die while others can catch it and be asymptomatic. The difference is how quickly the individual's immune system recognizes the virus as a foreign invader and begins the attack. In an unvaccinated or immune compromised individual this recognition can take far too long allowing the viral load to expand exponentially, overwhelming the body so that even after recognizing the invader, it is unable to produce enough antibodies and hospitalization is required. The vaccine simply gives the immune system a heads up by informing it what the invader looks like and a head start on the development of the antibodies. This dramatically reduces the impact of the virus on the vaccinated individual and on health care resources since they rarely require the more intensive treatment on the rare occasion they are admitted to a hospital.

Hope this helps because when you continue pointing to the fact vaccinated people are still catching Covid as proof the vaccine doesn't work, you're not only misleading yourself but others who are also looking to have their disinformed, and potentially dire opinions confirmed.
I understand the concept of vaccines very well. The CDC changed the definition of a vaccine this year. Why? Well because the true definition of vaccine didn't fit this current form they label vaccine. None of this is relevant. The vaccine being used is doing more damage then good. To mandate this is just purely criminal. Do you know that they claim someone isn't vaccinated until 15 days after being injected. They claim this is because of the time required for the body to create a protection. Well I am concerned that they are not classifying the deaths shortly after vaccination as being caused by the vaccine because they label you unvaccinated. I do not trust any data from these organizations and for good reason. The people dying are alarming and it's not from covid. The protocols being used by hospitals, created by the NIH are purely evil. The NIH has full control of most doctors as if the doctors follow their protocols, they are immune from liability.
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Thinktank
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Re: Vaccine Hesitant

Post by Thinktank »

Kelownamade wrote: Sep 19th, 2021, 9:13 am ... if the doctors follow their protocols, they are immune from liability.
BINGO!

No doctor on earth is going to risk financial ruin for himself by doing the right thing for another stranger.



..
If you have to be persuaded reminded bullied pressured bribed incentivized, lied to, guilt tripped, coerced, socially shamed, censored, threatened, paid, punished and criminalized, to gain your compliance- the thing is no good
harblz
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Re: Vaccine Hesitant

Post by harblz »

Kelownamade wrote: Sep 19th, 2021, 9:13 am Do you know that they claim someone isn't vaccinated until 15 days after being injected.
Can you point to anywhere that this is actually claimed? The claim is that you aren't fully protected until 2 weeks after vaccination, but you are vaccinated (by definition) the second you receive a vaccine.
Kelownamade wrote: Sep 19th, 2021, 9:13 am The protocols being used by hospitals, created by the NIH are purely evil.
Can you give an example of what you believe to be a pure evil protocol?
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Poindexter
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Re: Vaccine Hesitant

Post by Poindexter »

Kelownamade wrote: Sep 19th, 2021, 4:10 am I understand the concept of vaccines very well. The CDC changed the definition of a vaccine this year. Why? Well because the true definition of vaccine didn't fit this current form they label vaccine. None of this is relevant. 
First of all, not sure why you would refer to vaccines as a concept since they have obviously moved well passed the conceptual phase. Another blind spot in your extensive research or another full blown conspiracy theory? Actually, nevermind. :200:

The CDC changed the definition from "provides immunity" to "provides protection" which is more accurate and reflects exactly how I described they work. Perhaps they felt with Covid effecting so many, that people's understanding of vaccines would become more sophisticated and a more accurate definition was long overdue. A change in the definition however doesn't in any way make the understanding of how vaccines work irrelevant though.

You first stated that because the vaccinated are catching covid the vaccine doesn't work. Then you stated that understanding how a vaccine works is irrelevant. That's how an echo chamber works, new information that disproves your previously held beliefs is ushered out because of some absurd self defensive rationalization. Isn't that what you're accusing pro vaccine people of doing?
Remember: Humans are 99% chimp.

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