To the whack jobs entering schools in the name of social protest

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JLives
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Re: To the whack jobs entering schools in the name of social protest

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The vaccine hasn't been politicized. Social media is to blame and regular folk think they have some inside track on experts. I regect that heartily. I have school aged children. Damn right 12 year olds are smart enough to make their own immunization decisions. Smarter than their parents these days. Either way storming into schools is unacceptable. Leave our kids alone.
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rustled
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Re: To the whack jobs entering schools in the name of social protest

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JLives wrote: Sep 25th, 2021, 8:27 am The vaccine hasn't been politicized.
This is akin to Trudeau saying he doesn't see division among Canadians. Covid was politicized from the get-go. The politicization of the vaccine started with the Canadian government's deal with China and the politicians, activists and celebrities saying they wouldn't take "Trump's" vaccine because it couldn't be safe (Operation Warp Speed), and continues now with the vaccine passports.

Claiming it hasn't been politicized is rather pointless.
JLives wrote:Social media is to blame and regular folk think they have some inside track on experts.
People who distrust authorities don't necessarily believe other "experts".

This seems to me to by one of the mistakes people make when they talk about the vaccine hesitant and those objecting to incongruent messaging and faulty policy. Perhaps it's projection bias - because one has chosen to trust the usual authorities, one then assumes those who disagree with them must be placing their trust some other sort of "authority".

While some of the people who don't want their children vaccinated may be listening to misinformation and putting their trust in the wrong people, we'd be foolish to assume that of all the parents who don't want their children vaccinated.
JLives wrote:I regect that heartily. I have school aged children. Damn right 12 year olds are smart enough to make their own immunization decisions. Smarter than their parents these days.
You get to decide your kids are smart enough to make their own immunization decisions.

Other parents may well decide otherwise, and IMO it's hubris for anyone to assume those parents aren't smart enough to make those decisions for or with their 12-year-olds.

Hosting vaccine clinics in schools is a cynical maneuver that is doing an end run around those parents with whom you personally disagree.
JLives wrote:Either way storming into schools is unacceptable.
That's the narrative many people have chosen to support with their public voices while our schools are being used to undermine parents on an issue that is not out of alignment with their personal beliefs.
JLives wrote: Leave our kids alone.

Interesting demand.

It seems to me the message we are hearing from quite a few people is "Leave our kids alone, unless you're doing something I personally agree with, in which case the end justifies the means."
Ideology...gives evil-doing its long-sought justification and gives the evildoer the necessary steadfastness and determination...[it] is the social theory which helps to make his actions seem good instead of bad in his own and others' eyes...
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daria
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Re: To the whack jobs entering schools in the name of social protest

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I wonder if the public health authorities would be so quick to uphold a 12 year old's decision to not take this vaccine, if their parents were making them get it?
Don't take my silence to mean I've agreed with you; I easily could've just lost interest in explaining how wrong you are.
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rustled
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Re: To the whack jobs entering schools in the name of social protest

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daria wrote: Sep 25th, 2021, 9:53 am I wonder if the public health authorities would be so quick to uphold a 12 year old's decision to not take this vaccine, if their parents were making them get it?
Good question, daria. Seems most likely they'd "determine" via "assessment" that a child rejecting the vaccine isn't mature enough to make that choice - just as they did when kids were afraid of getting the jabs that were less politicized.
Ideology...gives evil-doing its long-sought justification and gives the evildoer the necessary steadfastness and determination...[it] is the social theory which helps to make his actions seem good instead of bad in his own and others' eyes...
-Solzhenitsyn
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Re: To the whack jobs entering schools in the name of social protest

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rustled wrote: Sep 25th, 2021, 10:08 am
daria wrote: Sep 25th, 2021, 9:53 am I wonder if the public health authorities would be so quick to uphold a 12 year old's decision to not take this vaccine, if their parents were making them get it?
Good question, daria. Seems most likely they'd "determine" via "assessment" that a child rejecting the vaccine isn't mature enough to make that choice - just as they did when kids were afraid of getting the jabs that were less politicized.
Weird how that works...
Don't take my silence to mean I've agreed with you; I easily could've just lost interest in explaining how wrong you are.
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Re: To the whack jobs entering schools in the name of social protest

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rustled wrote: Sep 25th, 2021, 9:39 am Hosting vaccine clinics in schools is a cynical maneuver that is doing an end run around those parents with whom you personally disagree.

That's the narrative many people have chosen to support with their public voices while our schools are being used to undermine parents on an issue that is not out of alignment with their personal beliefs.

It seems to me the message we are hearing from quite a few people is "Leave our kids alone, unless you're doing something I personally agree with, in which case the end justifies the means."
Interesting comments. Completely void of truth and reality but amusing. First, schools are NOT reaching out to IHA, it’s the other way around. Go see the IHA webpage for locations near you. The clinics are set up by IHA in the friggin parking lots of school properties in rural communities; just like renting the gym there is to others. The clinics are NOT IN THE SCHOOLS and are not there for the students, but there for the community at large. School districts have nothing to do with it PERIOD. Schools are not public spaces, but public funded institutions, so being so delusional about simple matters like these makes it impossible to have intelligent dialogue. Sort of like dealing with drunk customers; belligerent and unreasonable.
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Re: To the whack jobs entering schools in the name of social protest

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daria wrote: Sep 25th, 2021, 9:53 am I wonder if the public health authorities would be so quick to uphold a 12 year old's decision to not take this vaccine, if their parents were making them get it?
Yes they would. It's law. 12 year olds have bodily autonomy on health issues. Period.
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Re: To the whack jobs entering schools in the name of social protest

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Mtn Biker wrote: Sep 25th, 2021, 10:47 am
rustled wrote: Sep 25th, 2021, 9:39 am Hosting vaccine clinics in schools is a cynical maneuver that is doing an end run around those parents with whom you personally disagree.

That's the narrative many people have chosen to support with their public voices while our schools are being used to undermine parents on an issue that is not out of alignment with their personal beliefs.

It seems to me the message we are hearing from quite a few people is "Leave our kids alone, unless you're doing something I personally agree with, in which case the end justifies the means."
Interesting comments. Completely void of truth and reality but amusing. First, schools are NOT reaching out to IHA, it’s the other way around.
Where did you hear schools were reaching out to IHA? Not from me.

That would be incongruent with what I have been saying.
Mtn Biker wrote: Go see the IHA webpage for locations near you.
I've no need to do this.
Mtn Biker wrote: The clinics are set up by IHA in the friggin parking lots of school properties in rural communities; just like renting the gym there is to others. The clinics are NOT IN THE SCHOOLS and are not there for the students, but there for the community at large.
Even if this is accurate, the information you've provided here does not negate the points I was making in this thread. As a side note, though, one has to wonder why protesters would have entered the school buildings if the clinics are set up in the parking lots.
Mtn Biker wrote: School districts have nothing to do with it PERIOD.

We know this isn't true - the clinics would not be hosted on school property if the school districts said "no" to them.
Mtn Biker wrote: Schools are not public spaces, but public funded institutions, so being so delusional about simple matters like these makes it impossible to have intelligent dialogue. Sort of like dealing with drunk customers; belligerent and unreasonable.
I see. Well, thanks for explaining the problem from your personal perspective.

From my perspective, hosting controversial vaccine clinics on school property to help children as young as 12 get vaccinated regardless of their parents' concerns is inappropriate. It's also a way for the government to shift focus away from discussion of whether or not it's appropriate and onto the protesters, as you and others have chosen to do here.
Ideology...gives evil-doing its long-sought justification and gives the evildoer the necessary steadfastness and determination...[it] is the social theory which helps to make his actions seem good instead of bad in his own and others' eyes...
-Solzhenitsyn
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Re: To the whack jobs entering schools in the name of social protest

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rustled wrote: Sep 25th, 2021, 4:57 pm From my perspective, hosting controversial vaccine clinics on school property to help children as young as 12 get vaccinated regardless of their parents' concerns is inappropriate. It's also a way for the government to shift focus away from discussion of whether or not it's appropriate and onto the protesters, as you and others have chosen to do here.
One: you were not there so you have no idea what transpired at any of these clinics.
Two: IHA is a pubic government agency, and so are “public schools” and thus when one agency needs some resources, such as space to support their rural health outreach programs, then they share resources. Pretty basic for most to understand. Please stop reading more into it than there is. That’s it.
Three: This forum isn’t a competition to see who can sway who unless an English major looking to polish their rhetoric. In which case well done, I never seen such clever posting techniques, how you segregate the comments to change context. Smart.
Four: Covid kills including some near and dear, so pardon me if I am disturbed by any thought that this is nothing more than what it is, a disease that kills.
Five: The vaccine helps prevent it in a big way and you cannot dispute that. Sorry statistics and sob stories of the narrow minded who thought similar are hard to overlook.
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Re: To the whack jobs entering schools in the name of social protest

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*removed*
Last edited by ferri on Sep 25th, 2021, 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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rustled
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Re: To the whack jobs entering schools in the name of social protest

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Mtn Biker wrote: Sep 25th, 2021, 5:42 pm
rustled wrote: Sep 25th, 2021, 4:57 pm From my perspective, hosting controversial vaccine clinics on school property to help children as young as 12 get vaccinated regardless of their parents' concerns is inappropriate. It's also a way for the government to shift focus away from discussion of whether or not it's appropriate and onto the protesters, as you and others have chosen to do here.
One: you were not there so you have no idea what transpired at any of these clinics.
"What transpired at any of these clinics" was not the subject of my posts. Not much point responding to my post with an argument against something I didn't say.
Mtn Biker wrote:Two: IHA is a pubic government agency, and so are “public schools” and thus when one agency needs some resources, such as space to support their rural health outreach programs, then they share resources. Pretty basic for most to understand. Please stop reading more into it than there is. That’s it.
I'm quite familiar with how the school districts' sharing agreements work, thanks.
Mtn Biker wrote:Three: This forum isn’t a competition to see who can sway who unless an English major looking to polish their rhetoric. In which case well done, I never seen such clever posting techniques, how you segregate the comments to change context. Smart.
Let's stick to discussing the topic.
Mtn Biker wrote:Four: Covid kills including some near and dear, so pardon me if I am disturbed by any thought that this is nothing more than what it is, a disease that kills.
What you've written here has nothing to do with what I've posted. Perhaps your difficulty with my posts comes from reading into them what is not there. To be clear, questioning the appropriateness of hosting vaccine clinics on school property is not questioning what covid is, or what covid can do.

Perhaps you are writing this in response to something someone else said? If so, best to quote that person in your response.
Mtn Biker wrote:Five: The vaccine helps prevent it in a big way and you cannot dispute that. Sorry statistics and sob stories of the narrow minded who thought similar are hard to overlook.
Again, my posts have not disputed "that" - so again, you seem to be arguing against something someone else may have said?

:topic: Hosting controversial vaccine clinics on school property, where we are told part of the objective is to help children as young as 12 get vaccinated regardless of their parents' concerns, is IMO inappropriate.

It has served as a way for the government to shift focus away from any discussion of whether or not it's appropriate to host vaccine clinics on school property, or to attempt to make it easier for children as young as 12 to get vaccines despite their parents' concerns - by setting that focus instead on the protesters.
Ideology...gives evil-doing its long-sought justification and gives the evildoer the necessary steadfastness and determination...[it] is the social theory which helps to make his actions seem good instead of bad in his own and others' eyes...
-Solzhenitsyn
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Re: To the whack jobs entering schools in the name of social protest

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^Thanks for keeping us on topic. :D
Don't take my silence to mean I've agreed with you; I easily could've just lost interest in explaining how wrong you are.
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Re: To the whack jobs entering schools in the name of social protest

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rustled wrote: Sep 25th, 2021, 7:38 pm
Hosting controversial vaccine clinics on school property, where we are told part of the objective is to help children as young as 12 get vaccinated regardless of their parents' concerns, is IMO inappropriate.

It has served as a way for the government to shift focus away from any discussion of whether or not it's appropriate to host vaccine clinics on school property, or to attempt to make it easier for children as young as 12 to get vaccines despite their parents' concerns - by setting that focus instead on the protesters.
*removed* The only ones stating "controversial vaccine clinics" are the anti-vaxxers; as for the educated they were provided information to make informed decisions and are making their decisions.

As I stated earlier it is difficult to have meaningful dialogue with the anti bunch, because the first order of their business is to push their agenda and refute the facts. Duh.
Last edited by ferri on Sep 27th, 2021, 10:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Don't start making this personal please.
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Re: To the whack jobs entering schools in the name of social protest

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Mtn Biker wrote: Sep 27th, 2021, 10:23 am
*removed* The only ones stating "controversial vaccine clinics" are the anti-vaxxers; as for the educated they were provided information to make informed decisions and are making their decisions.

As I stated earlier it is difficult to have meaningful dialogue with the anti bunch, because the first order of their business is to push their agenda and refute the facts. Duh.
I disagree. A lot of protests are much less about the vaccine itself, but whether or not it should be mandatory, or protesting vaccine passports. Because it really is political when the government decides that everyone must get it, and does everything in its power to destroy the lives of people who refuse. Its not the vaccine I'm concerned with, its government overreach, its where the vaccine passports will lead, and its the removal of freedom of choice over what medical procedures we undertake. People never started protesting until governments decided to start forcing it on people, or restricting people from their everyday activities, or shutting down "non-essential" businesses etc.
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Re: To the whack jobs entering schools in the name of social protest

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jcdenton wrote: Sep 27th, 2021, 1:32 pm I disagree. A lot of protests are much less about the vaccine itself, but whether or not it should be mandatory, or protesting vaccine passports. Because it really is political when the government decides that everyone must get it, and does everything in its power to destroy the lives of people who refuse. Its not the vaccine I'm concerned with, its government overreach, its where the vaccine passports will lead, and its the removal of freedom of choice over what medical procedures we undertake. People never started protesting until governments decided to start forcing it on people, or restricting people from their everyday activities, or shutting down "non-essential" businesses etc.
I disagree. This disease is killing people, no different than drunk driving. And it kills the innocent, just like drunk driving. Meaning you choose not to be protected or tested and then spread the virus and those you infect die. How is that right? How do we protect ourselves from these selfish mindsets? I don't care if you get vaccinated or not. I care if you infect me in a non-essential environment, so yes I support our government in taking a stance. Only businesses shutting down are those who don't know how or want to pivot. That's on them. I was in a number of establishments over the last few days, and frankly it doesn't seem to be hurting business, so maybe your position is one the few minority.

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