Pessimistic about climate

[JLives]

You're thinking of blogs, not real science.

And you're thinking of politics, not "real" science.

There is a plethora of real climate science to be found here: https://www.ipcc.ch/ and here: https://climate.nasa.gov/

And yet when you click on those links, you don't find any. Why is that?

No. When you click on it you don't understand it. There is a difference.

[Mark5]

I 100% agree. There are those who can "follow the science" on evolution and understand the theories, and then there are the gullible fools who buy into science fiction like the man-made climate change myth. These people want to have warm tummies, and therefore allow politics to be their driving force for decision-making, rather than actual science. If they listened to actual science, they'd know that the man-made climate change myth is total bunk. And we'd have no stupid "carbon" taxes, and poor people wouldn't suffer because of such dumb policy. Follow the science - man made climate change is a hoax.

You miss the point. https://www.ipsos.com/en-ca/news-and-po ... oronavirus

"Three-quarters (77%) of Canadians agree that human activities contribute to climate change. On the other hand, as many as one in ten (11%) do not believe that human activities have any meaningful impact on our climate."

The hard core 11% of deniers are already irrelevant in our democracy. The world is moving to transition to a net zero low carbon economy. Canada included.

Man made climate change is real, and we are moving on to deal with it. Electric cars, hydrogen cars maybe, safe nuclear energy etc. etc. will all be pursued as we shift away from fossil fuels.

It is understandable that 77% of Canadians believe in climate change. I rarely watch TV anymore. Both the programming and commercials are unbearable to me. But I do watch the news on once in awhile, I can only take so much of that too. But watching a certain station that is about BC, I won`t name names, is literally shocking to me. The propaganda and indoctrination about climate change is unbelievable. It has to qualify as brainwashing. Tonight they claimed it was a "climate emergency". I guess they must think geologic time is equivalent to human lifespan time. They pound this message home constantly throughout the broadcasts and do this night after night. So Canadians are being totally indoctrinated to think that "the end is nigh". All of this is an attack on our civilization and culture. It is the reason the prices of everything is going through the roof. It is only going to get worse. Things are about to get really ugly in my opinion. The media needs to calm down and stop this political drama they are creating. It is not doing anyone any good.

[hobbyguy]

You miss the point. https://www.ipsos.com/en-ca/news-and-po ... oronavirus

"Three-quarters (77%) of Canadians agree that human activities contribute to climate change. On the other hand, as many as one in ten (11%) do not believe that human activities have any meaningful impact on our climate."

The hard core 11% of deniers are already irrelevant in our democracy. The world is moving to transition to a net zero low carbon economy. Canada included.

Man made climate change is real, and we are moving on to deal with it. Electric cars, hydrogen cars maybe, safe nuclear energy etc. etc. will all be pursued as we shift away from fossil fuels.

It is understandable that 77% of Canadians believe in climate change. I rarely watch TV anymore. Both the programming and commercials are unbearable to me. But I do watch the news on once in awhile, I can only take so much of that too. But watching a certain station that is about BC, I won`t name names, is literally shocking to me. The propaganda and indoctrination about climate change is unbelievable. It has to qualify as brainwashing. Tonight they claimed it was a "climate emergency". I guess they must think geologic time is equivalent to human lifespan time. They pound this message home constantly throughout the broadcasts and do this night after night. So Canadians are being totally indoctrinated to think that "the end is nigh". All of this is an attack on our civilization and culture. It is the reason the prices of everything is going through the roof. It is only going to get worse. Things are about to get really ugly in my opinion. The media needs to calm down and stop this political drama they are creating. It is not doing anyone any good.

That you choose to characterize it as propaganda is a cop out. It is the nature of media to report on the issues of the day.

Climate change action was a top issue in the election. Rightfully so, as in a world that is moving toward climate change action and net zero low carbon, there will be economic changes that if you are not in tune with, odds are you lose. No major political party in Canada was devoid of a plan to address climate change. Who had the best plan on climate change had significant impact on the election.

It is apparent that no future Canadian government will NOT have a plan to address man made climate change.

If in a group of 100 people, all of whom have access to and have examined information on a topic, 89 of them agree that the science is clear on a topic, then is it them (the 89) or is it you that has hold of the wrong end of the stick?

We have reached a point in Canada where ongoing efforts will be made to address man made climate change. We are not alone. Even in Texas ( with an entirely different media mix) 57% agree that climate change is primarily caused by human activity. https://climatecommunication.yale.edu/v ... a/ycom-us/

There will be all manner of changes in the next few decades. Many missteps of unintended consequences to fix as well. But the direction is set, and it will happen. The world is moving to address man made climate change effects. Companies like Ford are moving away from fossil fuel vehicles. The TMX is the last major oil pipeline that will be built in Canada. Coal fired power plants are closing down in most countries. More transit is being built in Canada. Next year Calgary-Edmonton trucking will try out hydrogen. Step by step.

There is no stopping it. It is going to happen. Canada is moving to net zero low carbon. You can get with it or not. "Not" is the big gamble that could bite you in the coming years.

[Babba_not_Gump]

It is understandable that 77% of Canadians believe in climate change. I rarely watch TV anymore. Both the programming and commercials are unbearable to me. But I do watch the news on once in awhile, I can only take so much of that too. But watching a certain station that is about BC, I won`t name names, is literally shocking to me. The propaganda and indoctrination about climate change is unbelievable. It has to qualify as brainwashing. Tonight they claimed it was a "climate emergency". I guess they must think geologic time is equivalent to human lifespan time. They pound this message home constantly throughout the broadcasts and do this night after night. So Canadians are being totally indoctrinated to think that "the end is nigh". All of this is an attack on our civilization and culture. It is the reason the prices of everything is going through the roof. It is only going to get worse. Things are about to get really ugly in my opinion. The media needs to calm down and stop this political drama they are creating. It is not doing anyone any good.

And then the city of Vancouver is hoping to bring in this:
https://globalnews.ca/news/8244771/vanc ... g-program/
Vancouver councillors to vote on new vehicle tax, overnight parking permit program
Why?
Because Vancouver has declared a "Climate Emergency".
And by taxing on-street overnight parking on all Vancouverstreets, it will make every neighbourhood walkable, where people can get to their basic daily needs without a car, we need to fund these improvements,”

Please don't let this come to my city.

[Mark5]

It is understandable that 77% of Canadians believe in climate change. I rarely watch TV anymore. Both the programming and commercials are unbearable to me. But I do watch the news on once in awhile, I can only take so much of that too. But watching a certain station that is about BC, I won`t name names, is literally shocking to me. The propaganda and indoctrination about climate change is unbelievable. It has to qualify as brainwashing. Tonight they claimed it was a "climate emergency". I guess they must think geologic time is equivalent to human lifespan time. They pound this message home constantly throughout the broadcasts and do this night after night. So Canadians are being totally indoctrinated to think that "the end is nigh". All of this is an attack on our civilization and culture. It is the reason the prices of everything is going through the roof. It is only going to get worse. Things are about to get really ugly in my opinion. The media needs to calm down and stop this political drama they are creating. It is not doing anyone any good.

That you choose to characterize it as propaganda is a cop out. It is the nature of media to report on the issues of the day.

Climate change action was a top issue in the election. Rightfully so, as in a world that is moving toward climate change action and net zero low carbon, there will be economic changes that if you are not in tune with, odds are you lose. No major political party in Canada was devoid of a plan to address climate change. Who had the best plan on climate change had significant impact on the election.

It is apparent that no future Canadian government will NOT have a plan to address man made climate change.

If in a group of 100 people, all of whom have access to and have examined information on a topic, 89 of them agree that the science is clear on a topic, then is it them (the 89) or is it you that has hold of the wrong end of the stick?

We have reached a point in Canada where ongoing efforts will be made to address man made climate change. We are not alone. Even in Texas ( with an entirely different media mix) 57% agree that climate change is primarily caused by human activity. https://climatecommunication.yale.edu/v ... a/ycom-us/

There will be all manner of changes in the next few decades. Many missteps of unintended consequences to fix as well. But the direction is set, and it will happen. The world is moving to address man made climate change effects. Companies like Ford are moving away from fossil fuel vehicles. The TMX is the last major oil pipeline that will be built in Canada. Coal fired power plants are closing down in most countries. More transit is being built in Canada. Next year Calgary-Edmonton trucking will try out hydrogen. Step by step.

There is no stopping it. It is going to happen. Canada is moving to net zero low carbon. You can get with it or not. "Not" is the big gamble that could bite you in the coming years.

`
Well I can see you have been totally indoctrinated. The reason everyone here is getting on board is because it is profitable to do so.The old saying"follow the money" applies.The real reason for the climate change push is to wean western civilization off of oil because oil cause warfare and feeds the war machine. The Japanese and the Nazis found this out the hard way in WW2. If you look deeply enough you will find those pushing for the end of fossils fuels are those in the peace movement and other pacifist types. The UN is a great promoter of climate change because of this and they also want to give developing nations a cheap and renewable source of energy. Oil is way to expensive for them and they cannot afford luxury cars etc. So the push is on with humanitarian goals in mind. So what better way to do this than to spread fear and guilt and anxiety amongst the western nations to get them to stop using fossil fuels and create new energy solutions to bring to humanity. Of course China and India and many other countries continue to use and grow the use of fossil fuels. Canada itself is carbon neutral. With our vast land mass and vegetation that breathes in CO2 and turns it into oxygen through photosynthesis, we do not produce enough CO2 to be a problem. In fact, we are creating plant food that increases vegetative growth, including food crops. Just a few years ago Ontario had the biggest wheat crop in its history. If Canada was the only country on earth, our CO2 emissions would not be harmful at all but rather beneficial. So the Trudeau Liberals want us to pay for the sins of the world. They want to make Canadians set an example for the world to follow, at our expense.
Fossil fuels are a gift to humanity from the earth itself. A wondrous form of solar energy, trapped in the ground from the vegetation that had captured the suns power to grow and to feed all the life on earth. If fossil fuels was used carefully and frugally, its could be used for thousands of years, continuing to feed the vegetation that gives this planet life. There are other sources of CO2 too such as volcanoes. This attempt to demonize fossil fuels is wrong. But I must admit that fossil fuel use has been abused terribly. I do not understand how cruise ships, which use a gallon of fuel to go one foot forward is accepted. What a waste. Same with car racing and muscle cars, etc. Ridiculous.
When the Vietnam war ended, those who were in the protest movement did not simply fade away. They now turned their sights on those who were responsible for war. The chemical companies, the oil companies, the arms companies and anyone else who was involved. That is why we saw Jane Fonda and Neil Young flying up to the "tar sands" in Alberta to stop the production of oil. They were big during the Vietnam war. So all and all, the entire climate change movement is a disguise with an ulterior motive. I just wish they would be honest about it. But then, without fear and guilt as a motivator, nothing would happen.These people think they have righteousness on their side and that the ends justify the means. In the meantime, we are all going to pay a very steep price. Our standard of living is going to fall and we will be seeing more poverty and homelessness. The only silver lining I can see about leaving our oil in the ground is that it will be there to feed our war machines if need be, unless foreign nation takes it from us. Fossil fuels are not going to go away no matter how much wishful thinking there is. They are just too precious. We can see that as the prices of it will continue to soar until only the wealthy will have vehicles. I for one would not mind going back to horses. Also, nobody is talking much about carbon capture. A viable alternative. But that would defeat the mandates of the UN to bring energy to the developing world.

[JLives]

Show me climate scientists living high on the hog. It should be easy enough to make a slideshow considering almost all of have them have globally come to the same conclusions with that . And it would have to be organized globally, with private corporations, governments, universities and other sorts of entities because those climate scientists are funded by a variety of sources. And you have to count on noone on any level snitching on this global conspiracy. Where's all the climate scientists in BMWs and gold chains spending that big climate money?

OR

Climate scientists have come to a consensus based on findings of their research that human activities are accelerating climate change.

One of those things is true.

And here's some stats on the funding of these baller climate scientists.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/27/us/p ... check.html

[Mark5]

Show me climate scientists living high on the hog. It should be easy enough to make a slideshow considering almost all of have them have globally come to the same conclusions with that . And it would have to be organized globally, with private corporations, governments, universities and other sorts of entities because those climate scientists are funded by a variety of sources. And you have to count on noone on any level snitching on this global conspiracy. Where's all the climate scientists in BMWs and gold chains spending that big climate money?

OR

Climate scientists have come to a consensus based on findings of their research that human activities are accelerating climate change.

One of those things is true.

And here's some stats on the funding of these baller climate scientists.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/27/us/p ... check.html

The NY times is a joke. Totally run by left wing anti American radical activists. I don`t believe anything they say. The whole climate change push is making a lot of people wealthy. Plus the universities and others get huge grants. Its a big scam and a lot of people are in on it. The idea that the earth is a static and unchanging place is ludicrous. It is hard to believe that people accept it. That the climate will always be exactly the same forever. Or that it has not changed rapidly in the past. The evidence of previous climate change is all around us. Even here I see the results of the glaciers everywhere. This warming trend started 20000 years ago and continues to this day. Tony Heller on you tube has shown graphs that show the real data.Not the contrived false data that these so called climate scientists are spreading. The Vietnam war protestors and their anti American friends have been attacking western civilization continuously. They finally came up with the ultimate attack. Go after the substance that fuels them. Oil. Very clever. You have to give them credit. No bombs or guns needed. Bring western civilization down this way.I personally do not like fossil fuel vehicles. They are complex and leak fluids and are noisy. I would love to see electric vehicles just for those reasons. But lets be honest about it. No more scare tactics and guilt trips. No more conspiracies to trick the people. No more frightening our children and giving them anxiety and no hope for the future. I grew up with air raid sirens being tested and nuclear war drills because of the cold war. Billions were spent on that and now billions are being spent on this new enemy of climate change. Sooner or later another ice age will be upon us and humanity will yearn for the days of a warmer climate.

[fluffy]

I don`t believe anything they say.

Where do you go for reliable news and information ?

[The Green Barbarian]

Climate scientists have come to a consensus based on findings of their research that human activities are accelerating climate change.

No they haven't "come to a consensus". This is 100% balderdash.

[LANDM]

You're thinking of blogs, not real science.

And you're thinking of politics, not "real" science.

There is a plethora of real climate science to be found here: https://www.ipcc.ch/ and here: https://climate.nasa.gov/

And yet when you click on those links, you don't find any. Why is that?

Probably because you clicked on the links and chose not to read anything?

[Mark5]

And you're thinking of politics, not "real" science.



And yet when you click on those links, you don't find any. Why is that?

Probably because you clicked on the links and chose not to read anything?

If carbon dioxide is such a great threat, then remove some of it. Carbon capture is a viable solution. It is already being done. New processes are being investigated to this end that are very workable. Rather than this drastic and radical step to stop using fossil fuels, simply reduce the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere with the various methods available. But this will likely not happen because it is really not about CO2. It is about creating new renewable energy for third world countries. That is why the UN is pushing this. They want to see all of humanity secure renewable and essentially free energy. A lofty and noble goal for sure. Humanity needs energy. Lots of energy. This has been going on since the Industrial revolution where we went from sustenance living to modern society. Fossil fuels released beasts of burden from their daily grind and allowed us to travel the world and even go to the moon. They gave us plastics so we would not need to use animal bladders and whale oil and animal skins, etc. Oil is a miracle substance that has given us so much including the computers we use right now to communicate with each other on this site. To demonize oil is absurd. To use it with reckless abandon is tragic. Moderation is the key to life in all aspects.
The sun is of course, the giver of all life on earth. We should try to capture some of its energy to supply our needs. Same with the wind. Maybe even the rotation of the earth could somehow be used. But right now, we need a lot of energy and I do not think wind and solar are going to cut it. Dr. Patrick Moore says that the solution is nuclear. I agree with that except for what to do with nuclear waste. Hydroelectric is another solution. If we are to have electric vehicles and electric heat and electric appliances etc. then we are going to need a lot of electricity. Already there are protests about the site C dam. We need that energy. It is clean and green.
The dishonesty by the UN and others( many one per centers I guess) involving fossil fuels is disturbing. They lie and exaggerate because they think we are all stupid and won`t catch on. Reminds me of the old adage" what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive". But there are those that do believe their lies and deception as we have painfully seen.
Also all I hear is crickets with the recent discovery of a new massive volcano under the ocean. How much CO2 did that pump into the sea? It created a new undersea mountain. And what about all the deep sea thermal vents? Are we really responsible for the alleged acidification of the oceans? Maybe not.
I am wondering too about the role fossil fuels play in warfare. Militaries run on fossil fuels. In any kind of protracted war was to break out, domestic oil supplies will be critical. The USA military already has vast reserves for such an occurrence. But perhaps using other countries oil first is a good strategic move.

[Jlabute]

Show me climate scientists living high on the hog. It should be easy enough to make a slideshow considering almost all of have them have globally come to the same conclusions with that. And it would have to be organized globally, with private corporations, governments, universities and other sorts of entities because those climate scientists are funded by a variety of sources. And you have to count on no one on any level snitching on this global conspiracy. Where's all the climate scientists in BMWs and gold chains spending that big climate money?

OR

Climate scientists have come to a consensus based on findings of their research that human activities are accelerating climate change.

One of those things is true.

And here's some stats on the funding of these baller climate scientists.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/27/us/p ... check.html

Extremely large and complex chaotic systems can not be understood by voting. Consensus is far from science. No reputable self-respecting scientist would consider consensus meaningful (outside of influencing public opinion) let alone valid, or a step towards understanding. The PC/media environment discourages discussion and promotes fear-mongering. Those who do not produce scary click worthy claims (many of which are not true) are lost in the wind or fear termination. PC enables a consensus cancel culture that promotes evidential exaggeration and perpetual escalation and not science.

Complex computer simulations have come to dominate the field of climate science, at the expense of traditional knowledge sources of theoretical analysis and challenging theory with observations. We are computing too much and thinking too little. This diminishes the opportunity for real breakthroughs in understanding and prediction. All of this is driven by the urgent needs of policy makers who can have agendas.

The latest IPCC AR6 With regards to equilibrium climate sensitivity breaks with the long-standing range of 1.5-4.5C and narrows the ‘likely’ range to 2.5-4.0 C. Many scientists do not agree with the rationale for raising the lower value from 1.5 to 2.5C. Such values have been disputed for decades and still are. So much we don't know. At the same time, a push towards renewables can cause irreversible economic damage.

The war on hydrocarbons has caused more harm to people than climate change.

https://www.cfact.org/2021/10/07/harm-f ... te-change/

[JLives]

Show me climate scientists living high on the hog. It should be easy enough to make a slideshow considering almost all of have them have globally come to the same conclusions with that. And it would have to be organized globally, with private corporations, governments, universities and other sorts of entities because those climate scientists are funded by a variety of sources. And you have to count on no one on any level snitching on this global conspiracy. Where's all the climate scientists in BMWs and gold chains spending that big climate money?

OR

Climate scientists have come to a consensus based on findings of their research that human activities are accelerating climate change.

One of those things is true.

And here's some stats on the funding of these baller climate scientists.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/27/us/p ... check.html

Extremely large and complex chaotic systems can not be understood by voting. Consensus is far from science. No reputable self-respecting scientist would consider consensus meaningful (outside of influencing public opinion) let alone valid, or a step towards understanding. The PC/media environment discourages discussion and promotes fear-mongering. Those who do not produce scary click worthy claims (many of which are not true) are lost in the wind or fear termination. PC enables a consensus cancel culture that promotes evidential exaggeration and perpetual escalation and not science.

Complex computer simulations have come to dominate the field of climate science, at the expense of traditional knowledge sources of theoretical analysis and challenging theory with observations. We are computing too much and thinking too little. This diminishes the opportunity for real breakthroughs in understanding and prediction. All of this is driven by the urgent needs of policy makers who can have agendas.

The latest IPCC AR6 With regards to equilibrium climate sensitivity breaks with the long-standing range of 1.5-4.5C and narrows the ‘likely’ range to 2.5-4.0 C. Many scientists do not agree with the rationale for raising the lower value from 1.5 to 2.5C. Such values have been disputed for decades and still are. So much we don't know. At the same time, a push towards renewables can cause irreversible economic damage.

The war on hydrocarbons has caused more harm to people than climate change.

https://www.cfact.org/2021/10/07/harm-f ... te-change/

I'm not a scientist, I'm perfectly ok accepting a consensus as meaningful. It shows that this vast group of scientists, all from different countries and backgrounds, have came to the same conclusions through their research. Including some who were hired by oil companies and such to disprove it was happening but their research did not come to the oil company's conclusion.

I don't debate climate science itself. Because I'm not qualified to and, unless you are willing to share your credentials, neither are you.

[The Green Barbarian]

I'm not a scientist, I'm perfectly ok accepting a consensus as meaningful.

Especially consensuses that don't actually exist.

[JLives]

Climate scientists have come to a consensus based on findings of their research that human activities are accelerating climate change.

No they haven't "come to a consensus". This is 100% balderdash.

What is 100% balderdash is your repeated attempts at gaslighting. You just saying no to something without backing it up with why means absolutely jack squat.

Consensus confirmed - https://www.forbes.com/sites/uhenergy/2 ... fc90911576

Consensus confirmed - https://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/

Consensus confirmed - https://www.climate.gov/news-features/c ... al-warming