7yo Girl Did Not need to Die

dorf007
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7yo Girl Did Not need to Die

Post by dorf007 »

https://www.castanet.net/news/Canada/34 ... uebec-girl

I am sick to my stomach !!!

What the hell is wrong with people ?

From the story that is reported, this little 7 year old girl was found dead and believed to have been WRAPPED in TAPE !!!

The stepmother is now charged with 2nd degree murder.
*bleep* is wrong here ?
Seriously how in the world could anyone do anything like that to a child ?
If this is proven to be true it is premeditated 1st degree murder.
But as we all know the judicial system is lax (for lack of a better word) on criminals.
With little doubt this ANIMAL will have her charges plead down to involuntary manslaughter and will serve her time in a minimum security prison and be out within 3 years.
Is that what that little girls life is worth, just 3 years ?

Canada MUST bring back CAPITAL PUNISHMENT AND THE DEATH PENALTY !!!
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spooker
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Re: 7yo Girl Did Not need to Die

Post by spooker »

And how would that have helped that young girl? It sounds most likely that the mother was not of sound mind to have subjected the daughter to that type of treatment ... do you think she'd worry about the death penalty?

Killing people who kill people is just a balm for the public's conscience ... it has never accomplished a thing ... no killer has ever confessed that they wouldn't have done it if they knew they would be killed after getting caught ...

Community support and more mental health services would do more to affect a better outcome ...

And the "death penalty" is "capital punishment" ...
“A majority of Americans have concerns about the fairness of the death penalty and whether it serves as a deterrent against serious crime. More than half of U.S. adults (56%) say Black people are more likely than White people to be sentenced to death for committing similar crimes. About six-in-ten (63%) say the death penalty does not deter people from committing serious crimes, and nearly eight-in-ten (78%) say there is some risk that an innocent person will be executed.”
https://deathpenalty.procon.org/questio ... ter-crime/
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When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers. --Socrates
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crookedmember
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Re: 7yo Girl Did Not need to Die

Post by crookedmember »

dorf007 wrote: Oct 20th, 2021, 5:54 pm

Canada MUST bring back CAPITAL PUNISHMENT AND THE DEATH PENALTY !!!

Our neighbors to the south have CAPITAL PUNISHMENT AND THE DEATH PENALTY (BOTH!!!)

They also have 3 times as many murders per capita as us.

Which might indicate a disregard for life by their governments translates into a disregard for life by citizens.

The killing of people by the state isn't a solution to anything.

People who do these awful things suffer from mental illness and are not going to be swayed by laws.
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TylerM4
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Re: 7yo Girl Did Not need to Die

Post by TylerM4 »

Despicable! I hope she rots in hell.

OP it's clear you're not a legal expert. No way in heck this would meet the benchmark for 1st degree murder. Likely it'll end up as a manslaughter charge in the end as part of a plea deal. Tho I agree it's vile and I hope the 2nd degree charge sticks.

Capital punishment is just silly. It's been proven multiple times over as not being any more effective at preventing crime. The only thing it provides is a feeling of satisfaction or revenge for the rest of society. Do we need to be so petty as to kill people for our own self satisfaction?
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Re: 7yo Girl Did Not need to Die

Post by AtlantisKelowna »

Easy to say when you haven't had a loved one taken from you. I hope none of you ever have to experience any of what this does to you and your family. Utterly disgusting that anyone would give more value to the criminal life than the victims. Even worse when they serve less than 10 years and get to enjoy life again. Harsh crimes deserve the harshest punishments, eye for an eye!
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Re: 7yo Girl Did Not need to Die

Post by TylerM4 »

AtlantisKelowna wrote: Oct 22nd, 2021, 12:31 pm Easy to say when you haven't had a loved one taken from you. I hope none of you ever have to experience any of what this does to you and your family. Utterly disgusting that anyone would give more value to the criminal life than the victims. Even worse when they serve less than 10 years and get to enjoy life again. Harsh crimes deserve the harshest punishments, eye for an eye!
Sure. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and feelings. Just so long as we're truthful with ourselves and others such as you were in your post. Capital Punishment doesn't deter crime - it provides satisfaction for those impacted by the crime.
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Re: 7yo Girl Did Not need to Die

Post by AtlantisKelowna »

TylerM4 wrote: Oct 22nd, 2021, 1:22 pm
AtlantisKelowna wrote: Oct 22nd, 2021, 12:31 pm Easy to say when you haven't had a loved one taken from you. I hope none of you ever have to experience any of what this does to you and your family. Utterly disgusting that anyone would give more value to the criminal life than the victims. Even worse when they serve less than 10 years and get to enjoy life again. Harsh crimes deserve the harshest punishments, eye for an eye!
Sure. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and feelings. Just so long as we're truthful with ourselves and others such as you were in your post. Capital Punishment doesn't deter crime - it provides satisfaction for those impacted by the crime.
It would deter the criminal from doing it again. Are you saying those people don't deserve the satisfaction of knowing they won't have the opportunity to do it to someone else? Probably not because again, the criminal's life is more important than the dead victim.

Do you know what doesn't deter crime? Our :cuss: judicial system. The dead have fewer rights than the living, prove me wrong oh wise one
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Re: 7yo Girl Did Not need to Die

Post by TylerM4 »

AtlantisKelowna wrote: Oct 22nd, 2021, 1:32 pm
It would deter the criminal from doing it again. Are you saying those people don't deserve the satisfaction of knowing they won't have the opportunity to do it to someone else? Probably not because again, the criminal's life is more important than the dead victim.
Curious - how many cases have their been in Canada where a person has been charged with 1st degree murder (such that we'd use capital punishment), did their 20 years (or whatever), was released, and then charged with murder a 2nd time? I can't recall a single example. Doesn't seem like there's a need to go further to "prevent them from doing it again".

Nothing wrong with wanting revenge/satisfaction. It's natural and often my 1st reaction when I hear a story like this. Don't need to come up with some other reason to justify it.
AtlantisKelowna wrote: Oct 22nd, 2021, 1:32 pm Do you know what doesn't deter crime? Our :cuss: judicial system. The dead have fewer rights than the living, prove me wrong oh wise one
Insults already. That didn't take long. Bad day?
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Re: 7yo Girl Did Not need to Die

Post by ferri »

:topic: :-X
“Weak people revenge. Strong people forgive. Intelligent people ignore.”
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Re: 7yo Girl Did Not need to Die

Post by AtlantisKelowna »

TylerM4 wrote: Oct 23rd, 2021, 8:11 am Curious - how many cases have their been in Canada where a person has been charged with 1st degree murder (such that we'd use capital punishment), did their 20 years (or whatever), was released, and then charged with murder a 2nd time? I can't recall a single example. Doesn't seem like there's a need to go further to "prevent them from doing it again".
How much does it cost the taxpayers to house a murderer for 20 years? The average is around $150,000 per year if you are a man and over $200,000 for a woman. So do the math when we have over 5000 people serving life sentences in this country. I'm sure there is a much better way to spend those funds than to give these scum bags a second chance.

Too bad the victim's families don't get 100k a year to help cope with life as it crumbles before them each and every day. Can't do that though because we have to pay to keep a criminal safe and maintain their rights!
TylerM4 wrote: Oct 23rd, 2021, 8:11 am Nothing wrong with wanting revenge/satisfaction. It's natural and often my 1st reaction when I hear a story like this. Don't need to come up with some other reason to justify it.
Unfortunately because of like-minded people such as yourself those of us who have had our lives torn apart and being the minority don't have a voice, a bunch of people who haven't lived the scenario gets to decide. Nothing to justify here I guess.
AtlantisKelowna wrote: Oct 22nd, 2021, 1:32 pm Do you know what doesn't deter crime? Our :cuss: judicial system. The dead have fewer rights than the living, prove me wrong oh wise one
TylerM4 wrote: Oct 23rd, 2021, 8:11 am Insults already. That didn't take long. Bad day?
Insult? Well, I can't say I'm surprised that instead of a rebuttal explaining how the dead have more rights than their killers the easy way out was taken. :up:
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Re: 7yo Girl Did Not need to Die

Post by TylerM4 »

I'm curious as to how much you've looked into this topic? It's generally well known that Capital Punishment is NOT cheaper, tho those numbers/information always come from other countries. Do you have something to share that would prove that it would be significantly cheaper in Canada where it hasn't been in the US?

Great study to reference for the State of Maryland for example. $37.2 Million per execution. Simply google "Cost of capital punishment"
https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/news/maryland-cost-study

Lol you don't have a voice. You have the same voice as I do. The playing the victim card is getting shameful here.

Ask without the insult and I'm happy to respond. Until then all you'll get back is being called out on insults. I respect myself more than to simply shrug off abuse. Absolutely no reason why I should (or need to) accept abuse on these forums so I won't.
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Re: 7yo Girl Did Not need to Die

Post by AtlantisKelowna »

TylerM4 wrote: Oct 25th, 2021, 9:43 am I'm curious as to how much you've looked into this topic? It's generally well known that Capital Punishment is NOT cheaper, tho those numbers/information always come from other countries. Do you have something to share that would prove that it would be significantly cheaper in Canada where it hasn't been in the US?

Great study to reference for the State of Maryland for example. $37.2 Million per execution. Simply google "Cost of capital punishment"
https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/news/maryland-cost-study

Lol you don't have a voice. You have the same voice as I do. The playing the victim card is getting shameful here.

Ask without the insult and I'm happy to respond. Until then all you'll get back is being called out on insults. I respect myself more than to simply shrug off abuse. Absolutely no reason why I should (or need to) accept abuse on these forums so I won't.
After losing 3 people to the hands of criminals I have spent years looking into this topic. I understand why it costs so much and it's a joke.

Legal costs are rarely covered by the criminal and in murder cases usually, at least 2 defenders are assigned to a case on the taxpayer's dime.

Pre-Trail costs stack up quickly as experts are required for forensics, mental health history, and perps backstory along with pre-trial detention. Another tax payer funded joke.

Jury, Trial, and then the incarceration costs start to pile up and the taxpayers are still on the hook

Then you get into appeals that seem to never end. Again all on the taxpayer's dime.

Why are these costs not put onto the criminal to pay off? All the money spent on rehabilitating those that do not deserve a second chance while hundreds of thousands of tax-paying, clean record citizens don't know where the next meal is going to come from?

Accusing me of playing a victim card when you don't have first-hand experience and don't understand the weight of how it affects families is the only shameful response in this thread. If you are insulted for being called "the wise one" and then turn the accusation into an abuse claim maybe you should just file a hurt feelings report and stay out of topics you have no valid experience with. Either that or hit the report button.

I will not stand for insensitive people who support the rights of criminals over the victims ever.
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Re: 7yo Girl Did Not need to Die

Post by TylerM4 »

I'm confused.
- Why bring up the cost of incarceration if you already know that capital punishment is more expensive? What was the intent?
- I agree that it sucks for taxpayers to bear the cost. I too wish there was a better way. I don't understand how this applies to the topic of Capital Punishment and whether it should be used in Canada tho. Where are you going with that?


I'm sorry but the fact that you have lost 3 loved ones to criminals doesn't make you any more of an authority on the topic. It feels to me that this is what you're doing when mentioning this, hence why I called it out. I understand the desire for revenge/satisfaction. Everyone feels that way when they've been wronged it's simply the type of revenge/satisfaction that changes. It's no different than wanting to beat up someone who assaulted your loved one or robbing someone who robbed you. Most of us understand that there are better ways. Same applies here.
AtlantisKelowna wrote: Oct 25th, 2021, 1:26 pm I will not stand for insensitive people who support the rights of criminals over the victims ever.
This is just a silly attempt to villainize me and I think you know it. But by all means - show an example of supporting rights of a criminal vs victim if you believe differently.
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Re: 7yo Girl Did Not need to Die

Post by AtlantisKelowna »

TylerM4 wrote: Oct 25th, 2021, 3:44 pm I'm confused.
- Why bring up the cost of incarceration if you already know that capital punishment is more expensive? What was the intent?
- I agree that it sucks for taxpayers to bear the cost. I too wish there was a better way. I don't understand how this applies to the topic of Capital Punishment and whether it should be used in Canada tho. Where are you going with that?
This is what our tax dollars are being wasted on. Is the system giving any justice to the victims?

Do the victims get $150,000 a year to ensure they are well taken care of? No, just a bill from the funeral home and a lifetime of hurt

Why do the guilty get endless resources pumped into saving their *bleep* while victims' families have to pick up the pieces and figure it out on their own?

What about the widow whose breadwinner was taken away? How does she survive?

Im not arguing the expense, just proving we are wasting resources on the scum of society because they get to keep their rights after taking someone else's away. That's a big issue and real change needs to happen when it comes to the rights of a criminal.
TylerM4 wrote: Oct 25th, 2021, 3:44 pm I'm sorry but the fact that you have lost 3 loved ones to criminals doesn't make you any more of an authority on the topic. It feels to me that this is what you're doing when mentioning this, hence why I called it out. I understand the desire for revenge/satisfaction. Everyone feels that way when they've been wronged it's simply the type of revenge/satisfaction that changes. It's no different than wanting to beat up someone who assaulted your loved one or robbing someone who robbed you. Most of us understand that there are better ways. Same applies here.
Having sat there and watched 3 people get another chance at life after killing an innocent person gives me much more weight on the topic. You haven't lived it so you have no clue and I hope you never get the opportunity to understand from my level.
AtlantisKelowna wrote: Oct 25th, 2021, 1:26 pm I will not stand for insensitive people who support the rights of criminals over the victims ever.
TylerM4 wrote: Oct 25th, 2021, 3:44 pm Best to debate with your head instead of your heart. This is just a silly attempt to villainize me and I think you know it. But by all means - show an example of supporting rights of a criminal vs victim if you believe differently.
I'm not villainizing anyone, if you feel that way it is on you. I did not specify you directly and made a general statement in regard to people who support the rights of criminals. If the victims had more rights and justice was being served this conversation would not be happening.

Claiming criminals deserve the same rights as law-abiding citizens is the only example I need.
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Re: 7yo Girl Did Not need to Die

Post by TylerM4 »

I've already agreed with you on this. It's a poor situation that costs a lot of money. The criminals would generally prefer we don't spend the $150k/year on their incarceration. Do you have any suggestions for how to fix such problems?
Claiming criminals deserve the same rights as law-abiding citizens is the only example I need
This is an interesting statement. Most view rights as universal, that's why they're called "human rights". Can you maybe explain how your thought process works with regard to variable rights? Where else would you like to see different rights for different types/classes of people? Personally - I prefer the idea of equal rights for all but am interested in at least considering your approach if you could explain it more.

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