No EI for the unvaccinated

rustled
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Re: No EI for the unvaccinated

Post by rustled »

hobbyguy wrote: Oct 29th, 2021, 11:37 am
dirtybiker wrote: Oct 29th, 2021, 11:10 am

Not sure the line of thought there. Why would EI end up as 'dud'

Employment conditions being changed mid stroke as to not
be beneficial to both parties should not affect an applicants
EI status.

Benefits were paid in. It is the company that changed a policy that was
causation for any employees facing dismissal.
Not the employees quality of their craft.

I see nothing on the employee, all employer.

Give 'em their EI, They more than earned it, it is their money to
access, Oh, I also contribute monies to the program, so, for my money,
I say grant it !

sidenote' absolute zero of any of this affects me in my field.
No one gives two spits about about the show outside our own
ring in the tent. We play to the crowd of our own circus.
As circumstances change, the implied employment contract changes.

When we didn't know about the hazards of asbestos, a set of working rules applied, and were changed. If workers refused to comply, out the door for cause.

When we didn't know about the real hazards of smoking, you could sit at your desk and smoke. A new set of rules came in when we did. Employees who did not comply were dismissed for cause.

In both of those examples, employees had an option they did not choose and therefore did not get EI. That's the way it works.

Conditions have changed again. Health and safety rules change and improve all the time. You either comply or get dismissed for cause. Dismissed for cause = no EI.
Both your scenarios are faulty.

Employees working with asbestos were not told they must accept a relatively recently developed and still controversial medical procedure.

Employers could readily assess which employees in their workplace are handling asbestos in an unsafe manner. They didn't have to blindly assume that the employees who had taken the training were following the new procedures correctly, and that the employees who hadn't taken the training were all "doing it wrong" and putting others in the workplace at risk.

Vaccinated employees can still be doing the equivalent of sitting at their desks smoking - the employer cannot tell by vaccination status which employees are infectious and which are not.

If this was about making the workplace safer, testing would be mandatory - it's the only way to determine who is infectious and who is not. This isn't about compliance to make the workplace safer - it's about compliance.
Ideology...gives evil-doing its long-sought justification and gives the evildoer the necessary steadfastness and determination...[it] is the social theory which helps to make his actions seem good instead of bad in his own and others' eyes...
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crookedmember
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Re: No EI for the unvaccinated

Post by crookedmember »

It would be impossible for employers to constantly test employees for their infectious status. Think of employers with hundreds or thousands of employees. Think of the costs. Think of how quickly labs would be overrun.

So we choose the logical and best option. Keep the vaccinated employees who are very unlikely to carry and transmit the virus.

And fire those who act as incubators/spreaders because they are too lazy/stupid to get vaccinated
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nucksRnum1
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Re: No EI for the unvaccinated

Post by nucksRnum1 »

crookedmember wrote: Oct 29th, 2021, 3:54 pm It would be impossible for employers to constantly test employees for their infectious status. Think of employers with hundreds or thousands of employees. Think of the costs. Think of how quickly labs would be overrun.

So we choose the logical and best option. Keep the vaccinated employees who are very unlikely to carry and transmit the virus.

And fire those who act as incubators/spreaders because they are too lazy/stupid to get vaccinated
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AtlantisKelowna
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Re: No EI for the unvaccinated

Post by AtlantisKelowna »

crookedmember wrote: Oct 29th, 2021, 3:54 pm It would be impossible for employers to constantly test employees for their infectious status. Think of employers with hundreds or thousands of employees. Think of the costs. Think of how quickly labs would be overrun.

So we choose the logical and best option. Keep the vaccinated employees who are very unlikely to carry and transmit the virus.

And fire those who act as incubators/spreaders because they are too lazy/stupid to get vaccinated
Who then will be the next scapegoat when all these workplaces only have vaccinated employees and breakthroughs continue as they have been already? Maybe you can respond with a reasonable answer to the question instead of a lazy/stupid one.
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Re: No EI for the unvaccinated

Post by hobbyguy »

crookedmember wrote: Oct 29th, 2021, 3:54 pm It would be impossible for employers to constantly test employees for their infectious status. Think of employers with hundreds or thousands of employees. Think of the costs. Think of how quickly labs would be overrun.

So we choose the logical and best option. Keep the vaccinated employees who are very unlikely to carry and transmit the virus.

And fire those who act as incubators/spreaders because they are too lazy/stupid to get vaccinated
While I agree that vaccine mandates are he way to go, it is not correct to generalize those who are unvaccinated as lazy or stupid. There are a wide range of things that can lead to vaccine hesitancy. The die hard anti-vaxxers are another matter.
The middle path - everything in moderation, and everything in its time and order.
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Re: No EI for the unvaccinated

Post by hobbyguy »

AtlantisKelowna wrote: Oct 29th, 2021, 4:11 pm
crookedmember wrote: Oct 29th, 2021, 3:54 pm It would be impossible for employers to constantly test employees for their infectious status. Think of employers with hundreds or thousands of employees. Think of the costs. Think of how quickly labs would be overrun.

So we choose the logical and best option. Keep the vaccinated employees who are very unlikely to carry and transmit the virus.

And fire those who act as incubators/spreaders because they are too lazy/stupid to get vaccinated
Who then will be the next scapegoat when all these workplaces only have vaccinated employees and breakthroughs continue as they have been already? Maybe you can respond with a reasonable answer to the question instead of a lazy/stupid one.
It isn't scapegoating. Vaccinated folks are 75% less likely to get infected and are infectious for much shorter periods of time. Plus vaccinated folks are far, far less likely to get seriously ill or die.

So for employers it is about health and safety, plus risk management. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/ ... ing-covid/

"In the U.S., data from 16 states and jurisdictions, representing about 30 per cent of the population, show that, in August, unvaccinated people were at 6.1 times greater risk of testing positive for COVID-19 and 11.3 times greater risk of dying from it than fully vaccinated people, according to the CDC."
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Re: No EI for the unvaccinated

Post by AtlantisKelowna »

hobbyguy wrote: Oct 29th, 2021, 4:20 pm
AtlantisKelowna wrote: Oct 29th, 2021, 4:11 pm

Who then will be the next scapegoat when all these workplaces only have vaccinated employees and breakthroughs continue as they have been already? Maybe you can respond with a reasonable answer to the question instead of a lazy/stupid one.
It isn't scapegoating. Vaccinated folks are 75% less likely to get infected and are infectious for much shorter periods of time. Plus vaccinated folks are far, far less likely to get seriously ill or die.

So for employers it is about health and safety, plus risk management. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/ ... ing-covid/

"In the U.S., data from 16 states and jurisdictions, representing about 30 per cent of the population, show that, in August, unvaccinated people were at 6.1 times greater risk of testing positive for COVID-19 and 11.3 times greater risk of dying from it than fully vaccinated people, according to the CDC."
I understand that vaccinated people are less likely to get severe symptoms but the rest is speculation as the studies all varies so widely that putting a set percentage is still not possible. Yes, I would believe it is still better chances than unvaccinated people but is still completely possible.

So, please tell me, who will the finger be pointed at once all unvaccinated people have been removed and breakthroughs are still occurring in the workplace?
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Re: No EI for the unvaccinated

Post by nucksRnum1 »

AtlantisKelowna wrote: Oct 29th, 2021, 4:41 pm
hobbyguy wrote: Oct 29th, 2021, 4:20 pm

It isn't scapegoating. Vaccinated folks are 75% less likely to get infected and are infectious for much shorter periods of time. Plus vaccinated folks are far, far less likely to get seriously ill or die.

So for employers it is about health and safety, plus risk management. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/ ... ing-covid/

"In the U.S., data from 16 states and jurisdictions, representing about 30 per cent of the population, show that, in August, unvaccinated people were at 6.1 times greater risk of testing positive for COVID-19 and 11.3 times greater risk of dying from it than fully vaccinated people, according to the CDC."
I understand that vaccinated people are less likely to get severe symptoms but the rest is speculation as the studies all varies so widely that putting a set percentage is still not possible. Yes, I would believe it is still better chances than unvaccinated people but is still completely possible.

So, please tell me, who will the finger be pointed at once all unvaccinated people have been removed and breakthroughs are still occurring in the workplace?
My prediction is Dogs and Cats. We already neuter them so why not anti covod them?
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Re: No EI for the unvaccinated

Post by hobbyguy »

AtlantisKelowna wrote: Oct 29th, 2021, 4:41 pm
hobbyguy wrote: Oct 29th, 2021, 4:20 pm

It isn't scapegoating. Vaccinated folks are 75% less likely to get infected and are infectious for much shorter periods of time. Plus vaccinated folks are far, far less likely to get seriously ill or die.

So for employers it is about health and safety, plus risk management. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/ ... ing-covid/

"In the U.S., data from 16 states and jurisdictions, representing about 30 per cent of the population, show that, in August, unvaccinated people were at 6.1 times greater risk of testing positive for COVID-19 and 11.3 times greater risk of dying from it than fully vaccinated people, according to the CDC."
I understand that vaccinated people are less likely to get severe symptoms but the rest is speculation as the studies all varies so widely that putting a set percentage is still not possible. Yes, I would believe it is still better chances than unvaccinated people but is still completely possible.

So, please tell me, who will the finger be pointed at once all unvaccinated people have been removed and breakthroughs are still occurring in the workplace?
There will be no finger pointing from a rational perspective. Those of us who view things rationally are not pointing a finger at all, just following best practices for risk management. Looking for someone to blame is not part of rational thought in context.

However, the unvaccinated folks need to realize that they are annoying a lot of people by plugging up our hospitals and making it difficult for others to get care for other conditions. That will generate some finger pointing because people get very emotional when they can not get proper medical care.
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Necro
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Re: No EI for the unvaccinated

Post by Necro »

We should rename earth clown world.

It must be the only place in the galaxy where a "vaccination" doesn't protect you from the intended disease while authoritarian pinheads clap at the thought of stripping charter rights over a virus with an average rate of survival exceeding 90%

Denying people EI is unconscionable.
Did you know 1 of 3 Biden voters are as dumb as the other 2? #LetsGoBrandon!
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Re: No EI for the unvaccinated

Post by bb49 »

Necro wrote: Oct 29th, 2021, 9:43 pm
Denying people EI is unconscionable.
:up:
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fluffy
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Re: No EI for the unvaccinated

Post by fluffy »

Necro wrote: Oct 29th, 2021, 9:43 pmIt must be the only place in the galaxy where a "vaccination" doesn't protect you from the intended disease while authoritarian pinheads clap at the thought of stripping charter rights over a virus with an average rate of survival exceeding 90%
But it offers a lot of protection, a heck of a lot more than going without it, and it also protects those around you but let's just ignore that, okay? Survival rate isn't nearly as important to consider than death rate, or those who may suffer long-standing heralth issues, but let's just ignore that too, after all they're all old and fat, right ?

As far as I'm concerned, refusing the vaccination on the grounds of the "my rights" argument is selfish and irresponsible, and paying out EI in those cases is just subsidizing stupid.
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Re: No EI for the unvaccinated

Post by Sparki55 »

fluffy wrote: Oct 30th, 2021, 5:53 am As far as I'm concerned, refusing the vaccination on the grounds of the "my rights" argument is selfish and irresponsible, and paying out EI in those cases is just subsidizing stupid.
If one person dies from the vaccine being essentially forced on them to continue employment then that means whoever agrees with the mandate is ok with human sacrifice to save others.

Human sacrifice is never the correct answer.
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fluffy
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Re: No EI for the unvaccinated

Post by fluffy »

Sparki55 wrote: Oct 30th, 2021, 8:05 amIf one person dies from the vaccine being essentially forced on them to continue employment then that means whoever agrees with the mandate is ok with human sacrifice to save others.

Human sacrifice is never the correct answer.
You're arguing against yourself here. By refusing the vaccine you are indeed saying that your rights trump the health and safety of others. It's a matter of degrees, while the odds of dying from a Covid infection are low in relation to total cases, the odds of dying from the vaccine are minuscule in comparison. The good of the many outweighs the good of the few.
TRADITION: (n.) Peer pressure from dead people.
rustled
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Re: No EI for the unvaccinated

Post by rustled »

Sparki55 wrote: Oct 30th, 2021, 8:05 am
fluffy wrote: Oct 30th, 2021, 5:53 am As far as I'm concerned, refusing the vaccination on the grounds of the "my rights" argument is selfish and irresponsible, and paying out EI in those cases is just subsidizing stupid.
If one person dies from the vaccine being essentially forced on them to continue employment then that means whoever agrees with the mandate is ok with human sacrifice to save others.

Human sacrifice is never the correct answer.
Yup. We're obviously not as evolved as the progressives would like to believe. Still ok with sacrificing some "for the good of the many", and all... I wonder what the odds were of a banished "witch" surviving in the puritan North American wilderness? This mob mentality borne of fear and ignorance has persisted throughout history.
Ideology...gives evil-doing its long-sought justification and gives the evildoer the necessary steadfastness and determination...[it] is the social theory which helps to make his actions seem good instead of bad in his own and others' eyes...
-Solzhenitsyn

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