Pessimistic about climate

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The Green Barbarian
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Re: Pessimistic about climate

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LOL - Oil giants deny "spreading disinformation" on Apocalyptic Fairy Tales...
Oil giants deny spreading disinformation on climate change (lol lol lol)

WASHINGTON (AP) — Top executives of ExxonMobil and other oil giants denied spreading disinformation about climate change as they sparred Thursday with congressional Democrats over allegations that the industry concealed evidence about the dangers of global warming.

Testifying at a landmark House hearing, ExxonMobil CEO Darren Woods said the company “has long acknowledged the reality and risks of climate change, and it has devoted significant resources to addressing those risks.″

The oil giant’s public statements on climate “are and have always been truthful, fact-based ... and consistent” with mainstream climate science, Woods said.

Democrats immediately challenged the statements by Woods and other oil executives, accusing them of engaging in a decades-long, industry-wide campaign to spread disinformation about the contribution of fossil fuels to global warming.

“They are obviously lying like the tobacco executives were,'' said Rep. Carolyn Maloney, D-N.Y., chairwoman of the House Oversight Committee.

She was referring to a 1994 hearing with tobacco executives who famously testified that they didn’t believe nicotine was addictive. The reference was one of several to the tobacco hearing as Democrats sought to pin down oil executives on whether they believe in climate change and that burning fossil fuels such as oil contributes to global warming.

Maloney said at the end of the nearly seven-hour hearing that she will issue subpoenas for documents requested by the committee but not furnished by the oil companies.

Republicans accused Democrats of grandstanding over an issue popular with their base as President Joe Biden’s climate agenda teeters in Congress.

Kentucky Rep. James Comer, the top Republican on the oversight panel, called the hearing a “distraction from the crises that the Biden administration’s policies have caused," including gasoline prices that have risen by $1 per gallon since January.

“The purpose of this hearing is clear: to deliver partisan theater for primetime news,″ Comer said.

The hearing comes after months of public efforts by Democrats to obtain documents and other information on the oil industry’s role in stopping climate action over multiple decades. The fossil fuel industry has had scientific evidence about the dangers of climate change since at least 1977, yet spread denial and doubt about the harm its products cause— undermining science and preventing meaningful action on climate change, Maloney and other Democrats said.
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/topstor ... d=msedgntp
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Re: Pessimistic about climate

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https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion ... ft-behind/

"Accelerating international climate action, investors awakening to climate risks and rapid technological change are combining in ways that will shift trade patterns and upend markets. Canada has a choice: Lead, follow or be left behind.

A future with significantly lower global demand for coal, oil and gasoline-powered vehicles is now inevitable, regardless of current price volatility. More than 60 countries and counting have committed to reach net zero greenhouse gas emissions by mid-century. These countries represent over 70 per cent of global GDP, over 70 per cent of global oil demand and over 55 per cent of natural gas demand.

Even if countries fail to hit net zero targets, their efforts will still have profound impacts on global markets."

Those who choose o cherry pick contrarian "studies" and junk science to justify sticking their heads in the sand should be aware that there is no upside to that position. Like it or not, take the reflexive contrarian position or not, countries and people that do not recognize where the world is going economically will wind up in the same round file as the Luddites.

This is where the world is going, so all the contrarian argumentativeness in the world ain't gonna do nuttin'.

Eventually the notion of "carbon tariffs" - which even O'Toole has touted in a weird context - could be a possibility.

So its either "get with the program" or face severe economic consequences - both as a country and for the individual within that country.
The middle path - everything in moderation, and everything in its time and order.
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Re: Pessimistic about climate

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hobbyguy wrote: Oct 30th, 2021, 9:58 am

This is where the world is going, so all the contrarian argumentativeness in the world ain't gonna do nuttin'.

Eventually the notion of "carbon tariffs" - which even O'Toole has touted in a weird context - could be a possibility.

So its either "get with the program" or face severe economic consequences - both as a country and for the individual within that country.
Thank you Hobbyguy for drawing our attention to the spread of enviro-fascism, very enlightening indeed. Essentially, join with us in pushing this fairy tale or your will be exterminated. No different than the Nazis and their final solution. I hope that just like World War 2, the free world wakes up to this threat, and defeats it before it spreads too far and too many people are killed by this horrible ideology. Keep up the great work reporting on this, and thanks for joining the good fight against these enviro-scum!

Speaking of incredibly stupid decisions being made in the name of magic and apocalyptic fairy tales, we are in the process of changing out our old natural gas furnace for a new natural gas furnace, which comes with all the new technology that our old one doesn't, so it should hopefully reduce our costs.

When speaking to the sales guy/installer from the furnace company, when he heard that we were going with a new natural gas furnace, he just said "oh, good, you're not one of those people", and I said "What?" And then he told me that he's been going around Kelowna for the past two years, ripping out perfectly good natural gas furnaces from peoples' houses, and installing electric furnaces at their request. These gullible idiots are then asked to sign waivers because they don't understand the massive differential in the cost to heat their homes and so the furnace companies want them to acknowledge their responsibility and that they have been warned that they are now in for a giant world of hurt financially from such a dumb decision.

So here we have families deliberately increasing their personal annual expenditures by potentially thousands of dollars a year, all in the name of a fairy tale, just so that they can experience a "warm tummy" that they are "doing something" about a "problem" that doesn't exist. It just boggles the mind. What possible difference could your natural gas furnace vs electric be doing to help anybody, even if man-made climate change wasn't a giant hoax? Why would you willingly do something so freaking stupid and financially hamstring yourself for no possible good reason. This guy couldn't understand it himself. No one can.

But it's no wonder governments think that they can take away rights and freedoms, all in the name of something that doesn't exist, because the sheep are already trained and ready for slaughter.
"The western far Left is habitually the most stupid, naive people you can imagine. They come up with these really goofy constructs and it's all about feeling good about yourself."
From the river to the sea, Israel must be psychopath Hamas free.
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Re: Pessimistic about climate

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Five more arrested in Vancouver for pushing the enviro-fascism agenda. You have to wonder reading this - are these people just useful idiots being used by the man-made climate change fanatics, or are they truly evil like their handlers? It does bear thinking about.
Five more climate activists arrested in Vancouver on final day of 'October Rebellion'

Five more climate activists were arrested Friday as they wrapped up a two-week mass civil disobedience campaign in Vancouver to demand government take more action to address the climate crisis.

The action comes as delegates from around the world meet Sunday at the UN Climate Change Conference (COP 26) in Glasgow, where members of the group Extinction Rebellion are planning high impact “deliberate disruption, according to the BBC.

Three men and two women were arrested after refusing to leave the intersection at Burrard and Pacific and blocking traffic for several hours, said Vancouver police spokesman Sgt. Steve Addison on Saturday.

Extinction Rebellion, the climate activist group that has been staging the series of protests, says three of its members locked themselves to a block structure early Friday evening. The block was covered in chicken wire and blue tarps, painted to represent Earth.

The group alleges police were “rough” with the protesters when removing them from the intersection.

Addison said three protesters had locked themselves together using some sort of device, but they freed themselves after the Vancouver Fire Rescue Services arrived to cut them out.
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/f ... d=msedgntp
"The western far Left is habitually the most stupid, naive people you can imagine. They come up with these really goofy constructs and it's all about feeling good about yourself."
From the river to the sea, Israel must be psychopath Hamas free.
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Re: Pessimistic about climate

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The Green Barbarian wrote: Oct 30th, 2021, 3:15 pm
hobbyguy wrote: Oct 30th, 2021, 9:58 am

This is where the world is going, so all the contrarian argumentativeness in the world ain't gonna do nuttin'.

Eventually the notion of "carbon tariffs" - which even O'Toole has touted in a weird context - could be a possibility.

So its either "get with the program" or face severe economic consequences - both as a country and for the individual within that country.
Thank you Hobbyguy for drawing our attention to the spread of enviro-fascism, very enlightening indeed. Essentially, join with us in pushing this fairy tale or your will be exterminated. No different than the Nazis and their final solution. I hope that just like World War 2, the free world wakes up to this threat, and defeats it before it spreads too far and too many people are killed by this horrible ideology. Keep up the great work reporting on this, and thanks for joining the good fight against these enviro-scum!

Speaking of incredibly stupid decisions being made in the name of magic and apocalyptic fairy tales, we are in the process of changing out our old natural gas furnace for a new natural gas furnace, which comes with all the new technology that our old one doesn't, so it should hopefully reduce our costs.

When speaking to the sales guy/installer from the furnace company, when he heard that we were going with a new natural gas furnace, he just said "oh, good, you're not one of those people", and I said "What?" And then he told me that he's been going around Kelowna for the past two years, ripping out perfectly good natural gas furnaces from peoples' houses, and installing electric furnaces at their request. These gullible idiots are then asked to sign waivers because they don't understand the massive differential in the cost to heat their homes and so the furnace companies want them to acknowledge their responsibility and that they have been warned that they are now in for a giant world of hurt financially from such a dumb decision.

So here we have families deliberately increasing their personal annual expenditures by potentially thousands of dollars a year, all in the name of a fairy tale, just so that they can experience a "warm tummy" that they are "doing something" about a "problem" that doesn't exist. It just boggles the mind. What possible difference could your natural gas furnace vs electric be doing to help anybody, even if man-made climate change wasn't a giant hoax? Why would you willingly do something so freaking stupid and financially hamstring yourself for no possible good reason. This guy couldn't understand it himself. No one can.

But it's no wonder governments think that they can take away rights and freedoms, all in the name of something that doesn't exist, because the sheep are already trained and ready for slaughter.
None of what you say matters. The changes are a comin'. You either get with program, or get left behind.

I do, however, agree with you about natural gas furnaces. We have the NG infrastructure and it is much lower cost than electricity - which we do not have enough to replace natural gas. Down the road natural gas will go up in price with carbon taxes, but some of that may be offset by adding a mix of hydrogen, which would lower the GHGs somewhat and be competitive with natural gas. Plus any of us who have been through a prolonged winter electricity outage will appreciate the value of a high efficiency gas fireplace and cooktop.
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Re: Pessimistic about climate

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hobbyguy wrote: Oct 30th, 2021, 4:54 pm
None of what you say matters. The changes are a comin'. You either get with program, or get left behind.
This weirdly sounds like what the National Socialists told the Jews on the eve of Kristallnacht. And though there were a lot of Germans who disagreed with how the Jews were treated, they had to "get with the program", or suffer the same fate as their Jewish brethren. When I see statements like this, such binary foolishness and stupidity in action, all in the name of a fairy tale, it just reminds me so much of the manufactured hate that the Jews were subjected to in Europe and other parts of the world.

Just unthinking, blind horrible group-think, all in the name of a lie. And just like the National Socialists, the man-made climate change fascists aren't going to stop until hundreds of millions are dead. It's as plain as day.
Down the road natural gas will go up in price with carbon taxes, but some of that may be offset by adding a mix of hydrogen, which would lower the GHGs somewhat and be competitive with natural gas.
So it's obvious to anyone with a brain, that carbon taxes on natural gas is just plain stupid. Natural gas causes zero environmental damage. Even if you think "GHG's" are a thing, (they aren't) then you have to support natural gas. To rip out your natural gas furnace and willingly accept thousands of dollars in extra expense, all in the name of some Harry Potter-esque fantasy is just lunacy. No one should be ripping out their natural gas furnaces. Quite the opposite, they should be swapping out their electric furnaces for natural gas, and being paid a big subsidy to do it. Get as much heat off of our grid as possible, as it can't sustain what we have now, especially with the same gullible fools going out and buying electric cars.

I was talking to a friend in Victoria and he is livid - their taxes keep going up and yet their infrastructure is suffering as no road work is being done - all the extra funds from taxes are being funneled in to "electrifying" the entire government auto fleet. Such a massive waste of money, such a stupid waste of resources, once again, all in the name of fighting this "Voldemort" fantasy land. It's just sickening to see such huge amounts of capital totally wasted by brain-dead governments on fairy tales. Just such garbage.
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Re: Pessimistic about climate

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No, natural gas does cause environmental harms - just not as much as oil and quite a bit less than coal.

It becomes a matter of pragmatism. Electric heat is unaffordable for many folks, and we don't have enough electricity. In transition, yup, move away from natural gas for new builds where it can be done in conjunction with other building improvements to reduce the energy need. But you ain't gonna suddenly switch out.

The issue is especially problematic in colder parts of the country. Fine if you live in Vancouver or Victoria you can get away with air source heat pump technology. But once you get to -10C and below - nope, you have to have a back up source.

The whole natural gas thing is context driven. What you can do in California around heating is a whole bunch different if you live in Edmonton.
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Re: Pessimistic about climate

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hobbyguy wrote: Oct 31st, 2021, 3:10 pm No, natural gas does cause environmental harms - just not as much as oil and quite a bit less than coal.
No, it doesn't cause any environmental harm. It's a clean-burning fuel that has zero particulates. So it is the most amazing and cheap fuel source we could ever want, and it's clean-burning with zero environmental impact. It's awesome!
"The western far Left is habitually the most stupid, naive people you can imagine. They come up with these really goofy constructs and it's all about feeling good about yourself."
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Re: Pessimistic about climate

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foenix wrote: Oct 28th, 2021, 8:36 am
Jlabute wrote: Oct 27th, 2021, 10:28 am
Numerous new peer reviewed articles state decreased cloud albedo is the root cause of recent warming, not CO2.
https://notrickszone.com/2021/10/18/200 ... emissions/
Wait, so the authors are saying that for the last decade or two the earth as a whole have had less cloud cover than before? I didn't see that in your link about if that, if I missed it, perhaps you can point that out to me because that seems intuitively wrong as global temperatures increase, shouldn't we experience more clouds from the increase in the evaporation rate due to higher temperatures?
Not sure why a slightly warmer earth would have more clouds. This is an assumption by some and it is not obvious in a complex, chaotic system. If true cloud cover would perfectly regulate temperature. There are many factors that control planet temperature, and cloud cover. Varying cloud cover a tiny amount would be all that is needed to change average global temperature. It could be done by ocean currents, or cosmic rays, or all the above. The sun when active shields the earth from charged cosmic rays. During periods of low solar activity, minimums or grand minimums, the earth gets more cosmic rays. Periods of grand minimums have been significantly cooler. Such charged particles either directly seed the formation of clouds, or indirectly through the formation of aerosols. I would suggest the science is more complex than what john cook suggests. Cosmic rays are currently intensifying as we approach a grand minimum. We will see what happens. Right now we believe climate causes clouds, instead of clouds causing climate which can be true.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 113235.htm

https://notrickszone.com/2017/03/23/rus ... o-climate/

You can build your own cosmic ray cloud chamber.




Snowball earth would had been caused in a similar way.
http://polaris.nipr.ac.jp/~ryuho/pub0/K ... lEarth.pdf
Last edited by Jlabute on Oct 31st, 2021, 9:12 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Pessimistic about climate

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hobbyguy wrote: Oct 30th, 2021, 9:58 am So its either "get with the program" or face severe economic consequences - both as a country and for the individual within that country.
Yet at the same time, China and Russia are not showing up at COP26 and many countries including India show a lack of commitment to financial suicide. There is no evidence CO2 levels do anything other than provide India with their best crops ever for this last year. The near future will prove these non-scientific model scams worthless.
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Re: Pessimistic about climate

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It's been going on fifty years now that science has been warning us that we were doing it wrong. Now I notice that the discussion is changing from reversing the effects of climate change to how can we live with it.
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Re: Pessimistic about climate

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fluffy wrote: Nov 1st, 2021, 7:30 am It's been going on fifty years now that science has been warning us that we were doing it wrong. Now I notice that the discussion is changing from reversing the effects of climate change to how can we live with it.
India had their largest crop in the last year. Hurricanes are not more frequent and intense, Tornados are not more frequent or intense. More people die from cold than hot. People start fires, not climate. Polar bear population is growing, Coral reef hits a 30 year high, sea levels have been gently rising for thousands of years... we have time to prepare for this if we have to.

Science has done no such thing as warning us. Science would be offended for hearing you say that. Activists have warned us, socialists have warned us. Some recent science articles tell us CO2 has nothing to do with warming. Models are warning us but models are not science. Models are based on many assumptions all of which can be wrong. We do not get real data from models. We've also been getting 100 years of climate lies and false claims and predictions.

Even without man, sea levels can still swing hundreds of feet and global temperatures can swing dozen of degrees. Some of this would be near impossible to live with, and nothing can be done to change it. Although, not in our lifetimes.
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Re: Pessimistic about climate

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This is exactly what I'm talking about, our desire to explain things away as natural, normal, nothing to worry about. The excuses given all show a short-term, near sighted perspective. The changes we are bringing about started with the industrial revolution two hundred years ago. Even if we act with purpose starting right now, things will still keep getting worse for decades.
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Re: Pessimistic about climate

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fluffy wrote: Nov 1st, 2021, 8:14 am This is exactly what I'm talking about, our desire to explain things away as natural, normal, nothing to worry about.
Versus the desire to create fear and panic over something that can't be detected or discerned from natural variability. There is too little accurate data over too little a period of time to really know anything about climate.
fluffy wrote: Nov 1st, 2021, 8:14 am The excuses given all show a short-term, near sighted perspective.
Versus inadequate models that show the disasters we want to see 100 years in the future, such as impossible scenario RCP8.5. No model can predict the future, present, or past. You are relying on poor models which work as good as a strawberry licorice whip sticking out of Biden's butt to communicate with aliens.
fluffy wrote: Nov 1st, 2021, 8:14 am The changes we are bringing about started with the industrial revolution two hundred years ago. Even if we act with purpose starting right now, things will still keep getting worse for decades.
What changes? What is getting worse? Act with purpose to do what? You believe so called 'changes' are obvious and outside the realm of natural variability? Change is always occurring and 7000 years ago Greenland hardly had any ice and global sea level was 10 to 15 feet higher while CO2 was the lowest it has ever been. Just natural climate change and no amount of money can stop it.
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Re: Pessimistic about climate

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fluffy wrote: Nov 1st, 2021, 8:14 am things will still keep getting worse for decades.
as they haven't gotten worse why would they "keep getting worse"? This apocalyptic nonsense is just for the horribly gullible. In 1970 500,000 people perished in a cyclone in Bangladesh. How much "worse" is it going to get?? Answer - it isn't.
"The western far Left is habitually the most stupid, naive people you can imagine. They come up with these really goofy constructs and it's all about feeling good about yourself."
From the river to the sea, Israel must be psychopath Hamas free.

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