No EI for the unvaccinated

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erinmore3775
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Re: No EI for the unvaccinated

Post by erinmore3775 »

The issue of an employee vaccination requirement for employment has finally come to a head in the Interior. Within the next few days 1,018 healthcare workers in the Interior Health region who remain unvaccinated and are now on unpaid leave, may be terminated. A provincial mandate has required proof of vaccination for workers in a number of health-related fields. Since they are being terminated under a Public Health Order, they will not be eligible for Employment Insurance benefits. However, it does appear that they will be eligible for some form of severance pay. Their union has indicated that while it encourages vaccinations for its members it will ensure that the contractual rights of any dismissed or suspended member are respected.

This begs the question what about the non-government employer, can they institute an employee vaccination policy. The simple answer is yes, but certain conditions must be in place. The following article outlines those steps and conditions.

https://www.ksw.bc.ca/covid-workplace-e ... ccination/

While an employer’s obligation is to ensure the health, safety and welfare of its workers and customers, it must be balanced with the employee’s right to privacy. No medical records should be required. The BC Vaccination Card and/or the Federal Government of Canada Vaccination Certificate and proof of identity are all that should be required. This is the same ID that is required to enter a restaurant, sporting event, etc.

While vaccinations do not prevent the spread of disease, they do substantially lessen its effects and the burden on the health care system.

https://experience.arcgis.com/experienc ... da29297ded

One only needs to examine the statistics displayed on the BC COVID Dashboard to understand that if the spread of the disease can be reduced within the 20 to 50 age group the pressure on our hospitals will also be reduced. Currently, surgeries and day procedures are being curtailed in Interior hospitals because of the high numbers of COVID patients in those hospitals.

Vaccinations will continue to reduce those pressures. However, those that choose not to be vaccinated have a responsibility to the rest of society. Wear a mask and curtail your social activities. Respect the rights of the rest of the population, which has chosen to be vaccinated and follow COVID protocols. If you are terminated from your employment, seek legal advice to ensure that you receive your proper severance, and be sure to celebrate your democratic right under the Charter to make that decision. It might also be a good idea to purchase a poppy to commemorate those who died to protect your right to choose.
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AtlantisKelowna
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Re: No EI for the unvaccinated

Post by AtlantisKelowna »

hobbyguy wrote: Oct 29th, 2021, 7:30 pm
AtlantisKelowna wrote: Oct 29th, 2021, 4:41 pm

I understand that vaccinated people are less likely to get severe symptoms but the rest is speculation as the studies all varies so widely that putting a set percentage is still not possible. Yes, I would believe it is still better chances than unvaccinated people but is still completely possible.

So, please tell me, who will the finger be pointed at once all unvaccinated people have been removed and breakthroughs are still occurring in the workplace?
There will be no finger pointing from a rational perspective. Those of us who view things rationally are not pointing a finger at all, just following best practices for risk management. Looking for someone to blame is not part of rational thought in context.

However, the unvaccinated folks need to realize that they are annoying a lot of people by plugging up our hospitals and making it difficult for others to get care for other conditions. That will generate some finger pointing because people get very emotional when they can not get proper medical care.
So you view things rationally from one side of your mouth and not the other, I see! You do realize our hospitals have been plugged up for years right? Covid is just an excuse many are buying.
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crookedmember
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Re: No EI for the unvaccinated

Post by crookedmember »

AtlantisKelowna wrote: Nov 1st, 2021, 3:34 pm

So you view things rationally from one side of your mouth and not the other, I see! You do realize our hospitals have been plugged up for years right? Covid is just an excuse many are buying.
Hospitals have been plugged up for years with people who need surgery.

Now they're plugged up with people who could have avoided being there had they gotten vaccinated.
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Sparki55
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Re: No EI for the unvaccinated

Post by Sparki55 »

crookedmember wrote: Nov 1st, 2021, 3:59 pm Hospitals have been plugged up for years with people who need surgery.

Now they're plugged up with people who could have avoided being there had they gotten vaccinated.
How many of those people who plugged up the hospitals were from preventable issues?

How many were in for type 2 diabetes, smoking, overweight, daredevil accidents, overdoses, etc?

Guess we need a two their system in Canada. A system for genetic issues and a system for self-caused issues.
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crookedmember
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Re: No EI for the unvaccinated

Post by crookedmember »

The most troubling part if this issue is it's 95% political.

Those refusing vaccinations are mainly PPC and far-right CPC supporters.

These people don't make wise decisions based on facts, they make stubborn and stupid decisions based on memes.

That's why if they actually are denied EI, I'm ok with that.
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Beerhunter341
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Re: No EI for the unvaccinated

Post by Beerhunter341 »

crookedmember wrote: Nov 1st, 2021, 4:04 pm The most troubling part if this issue is it's 95% political.

Those refusing vaccinations are mainly PPC and far-right CPC supporters.

These people don't make wise decisions based on facts, they make stubborn and stupid decisions based on memes.

That's why if they actually are denied EI, I'm ok with that.
Here we go again with "these people". This is a discriminatory comment but I'm sure you are ok with that.
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Re: No EI for the unvaccinated

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*removed*
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Kroynon
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Re: No EI for the unvaccinated

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crookedmember
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Re: No EI for the unvaccinated

Post by crookedmember »

If a person makes medical decisions based on politics, that IS stupid. There is no way to defend such nonsense.

And clearly government is giving us these mandates and possible EI restrictions to nudge those folks into a smarter direction.

The reason is simple. 85% of the 140 people in ICU in BC are unvaccinated, and that situation is untenable.

People are dying because these geniuses are clogging our hospitals and eating our health care funds.

All because facebook has convinced them the vaccine makes them magnetic and plants 5G chips in their tiny brains.

There may be a few people who genuinely believe the vaccine is dangerous, but 95% of this is political.
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nucksRnum1
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Re: No EI for the unvaccinated

Post by nucksRnum1 »

crookedmember wrote: Nov 1st, 2021, 7:10 pm If a person makes medical decisions based on politics, that IS stupid. There is no way to defend such nonsense.

And clearly government is giving us these mandates and possible EI restrictions to nudge those folks into a smarter direction.

The reason is simple. 85% of the 140 people in ICU in BC are unvaccinated, and that situation is untenable.

People are dying because these geniuses are clogging our hospitals and eating our health care funds.

All because facebook has convinced them the vaccine makes them magnetic and plants 5G chips in their tiny brains.

There may be a few people who genuinely believe the vaccine is dangerous, but 95% of this is political.
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fluffy
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Re: No EI for the unvaccinated

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crookedmember wrote: Nov 1st, 2021, 7:10 pm The reason is simple. 85% of the 140 people in ICU in BC are unvaccinated, and that situation is untenable.
Exactly, and it's not complicated math by any means.
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rustled
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Re: No EI for the unvaccinated

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I think more people are starting to see the denial of EI as politically-based coercion.

Most employers would have a difficult time proving their unvaccinated employees are more likely to come to work infected and infect others, which would logically and reasonably be a requirement for them to show that their employees' vaccination status does affect workplace safety and can therefore be made a job requirement. Without this, there's no "just cause" termination for refusing the vaccine.
Ideology...gives evil-doing its long-sought justification and gives the evildoer the necessary steadfastness and determination...[it] is the social theory which helps to make his actions seem good instead of bad in his own and others' eyes...
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crookedmember
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Re: No EI for the unvaccinated

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Where do views like the above originate?

“The bottom line: We’re going to protect vaccinated workers from unvaccinated co-workers,” Biden said. “We’re going to reduce the spread of COVID-19 by increasing the share of the workforce that is vaccinated in businesses all across America.”

[Tucker] Carlson argued that Biden’s proposal was about controlling Americans — not about public health — and questioned why the vaccinated needed to be protected.

“Virtually every sentence of the speech reinforced a single point again and again. And it was this: Your fellow Americans are dangerous to you,” Carlson said in the segment, clips of which have received around 1 million views on Facebook and Instagram. “They could kill you. And that includes your family, it includes your friends, it includes the people you sit next to at work. All of these people are threats to you and only the Biden administration can save you.”

“Think about that for a moment,” Carlson continued. “Does it make sense? If the vaccine works — and they assure us adamantly that it does work and they punish us if we question how well it works — then how can the unvaccinated possibly pose a threat to the vaccinated? How? What exactly is the risk exactly to the vaccinated from the unvaccinated? Joe Biden didn’t tell us the answer. He didn’t tell us because he doesn’t know. No one knows. There is no answer.”
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AtlantisKelowna
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Re: No EI for the unvaccinated

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crookedmember
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Re: No EI for the unvaccinated

Post by crookedmember »

Since our friends on the right are unwilling to accept the fact that unvaccinated people are more likely to spread the virus to the vaccinated, lets look at it another way.

What if 20% of a workforce are unvaccinated. (In some parts of BC, AB and SK, that could be 50%.) What if one unvaccinated employee contracts the virus, brings it to the workplace, and it spreads like wildfire through the other unvaccinated employees?

Who pays the sick leave when 20% of the workforce is out? Who pays when the employer is fined or sued for not keeping those unvaccinated workers safe?

This is why these workplace/EI decisions should be made on the advice of doctors and scientists who understand viruses and how they spread. Not by anti-vaxxers and Trudeau-haters who get their information from facebook and Mr. Carlson and oftentimes struggle with the difference between "your" and "you're."
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