Pessimistic about climate

[fluffy]

Look, I'd love to hang around and talk to you guys, but I think my time would be better spent clipping my toenails.

[foenix]

It's been going on fifty years now that science has been warning us that we were doing it wrong. Now I notice that the discussion is changing from reversing the effects of climate change to how can we live with it.

India had their largest crop in the last year. Hurricanes are not more frequent and intense, Tornados are not more frequent or intense. More people die from cold than hot. People start fires, not climate. Polar bear population is growing, Coral reef hits a 30 year high, sea levels have been gently rising for thousands of years... we have time to prepare for this if we have to.

Science has done no such thing as warning us. Science would be offended for hearing you say that. Activists have warned us, socialists have warned us. Some recent science articles tell us CO2 has nothing to do with warming. Models are warning us but models are not science. Models are based on many assumptions all of which can be wrong. We do not get real data from models. We've also been getting 100 years of climate lies and false claims and predictions.

Even without man, sea levels can still swing hundreds of feet and global temperatures can swing dozen of degrees. Some of this would be near impossible to live with, and nothing can be done to change it. Although, not in our lifetimes.

That's not true, the only accurate means of determining those metrics only goes back 800,000 years and in that time, sea levels haven't swung hundreds of feet and global temperatures haven't swung dozens of degrees. For the last 800K years the CO2 in our atmosphere have averaged 260 ppm but since the Industrial Revolution, that level has steadily risen to so far 419 ppm .....with the corresponding record breakingyearly global temperatures. I'm wondering where that mini ice age is that was predicted by Milankovitch?

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[Jlabute]

That's not true, the only accurate means of determining those metrics only goes back 800,000 years and in that time, sea levels haven't swung hundreds of feet and global temperatures haven't swung dozens of degrees. For the last 800K years the CO2 in our atmosphere have averaged 260 ppm but since the Industrial Revolution, that level has steadily risen to so far 419 ppm .....with the corresponding record breaking yearly global temperatures. I'm wondering where that mini ice age is that was predicted by Milankovitch?

It is true and I have no clue what you are talking about. A lot has happened in 800,000 years. At an average CO2 level of '260 ppm' (+/- 20ppm) between ice ages and interglacials ...

In the last 18,000 years, earth sea level has risen by 420 feet (130m). Why? We came out of an ice age. 420 feet is in the hundreds. Just in case you're not sure, 18 thousand is less than 800 thousand.

sealevel.jpg

Just to show there have been something like 8 ice ages in the last 800,000 years, so sea level has swung up and down, as have temperatures. The question is.... why? What causes this roughly 100,000 year cycle do you think? That's why we need science. Nothing is instantaneous either. The solar cycles are decreasing in intensity, cosmic rays increasing, UV increasing... who is to say what will happen, but the next solar cycle we will see as predicted, conditions similar to the maunder minimum. What those conditions will be is yet to be seen. Nothing is out of the ordinary.

glacials.png

[The Green Barbarian]

Look, I'd love to hang around and talk to you guys, but I think my time would be better spent clipping my toenails.

we all would rather be clipping our toenails than paying idiotic carbon taxes.

[foenix]

Just to show there have been something like 8 ice ages in the last 800,000 years, so sea level has swung up and down, as have temperatures. The question is.... why? What causes this roughly 100,000 year cycle do you think? That's why we need science. Nothing is instantaneous either. The solar cycles are decreasing in intensity, cosmic rays increasing, UV increasing... who is to say what will happen, but the next solar cycle we will see as predicted, conditions similar to the maunder minimum. What those conditions will be is yet to be seen. Nothing is out of the ordinary.

glacials.png

Except we're talking about temperature changes between 4 to 7 degrees over 5000 years or more......but in the last 100 years, it's risen 0.7 degrees which is 10 times the average ice-age-recovery-warming? Why is that? What does you're "modeling" say about that? What's the impetus?

https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/featu ... /page3.php

Plus according to some of the modeling, shouldn't we be going into an ice age? We're not? Why is that?

https://skepticalscience.com/heading-in ... ediate.htm

[foenix]

Look, I'd love to hang around and talk to you guys, but I think my time would be better spent clipping my toenails.

we all would rather be clipping our toenails than paying idiotic carbon taxes.

What's one more tax? If it's not the carbon tax, it'll be some other tax, get over it and clip you're toenails.

[The Green Barbarian]

What's one more tax? If it's not the carbon tax, it'll be some other tax, get over it and clip you're toenails.

Except that this is a tax on fairy tales. Tax other stuff, not fairy tales.

[foenix]

What's one more tax? If it's not the carbon tax, it'll be some other tax, get over it and clip you're toenails.

Except that this is a tax on fairy tales. Tax other stuff, not fairy tales.

Only the right thinks that as they seem to have a hard time admitting to reality like who won as the PM or that there were election fraud everywhere in the US and that Trump is the legit President....it's the same deal with man made climate change. Most Canadians don't believe man made climate change is a fairly tale tho and seem to have no problem paying the carbon tax.

[Pappywinkle]

Only the right thinks that as they seem to have a hard time admitting to reality like who won as the PM or that there were election fraud everywhere in the US and that Trump is the legit President....it's the same deal with man made climate change. Most Canadians don't believe man made climate change is a fairly tale tho and seem to have no problem paying the carbon tax.

It really shouldn't be surprising that some far right Canadians are climate change deniers. The same types believe all sorts of ridiculous far right nonsense, like election fraud, that Trump wasn't an embarrassment, and the most hilarious of all - that the CPC didn't get their butts kicked 3 times in a row.

Thankfully, Canadians again elected a government that understands things like science and math, so the fringe beliefs of a few far right crazies about climate change being a fairy tale aren't really relevant at all.

[The Green Barbarian]

Most Canadians don't believe man made climate change is a fairly tale tho and seem to have no problem paying the carbon tax.

That's my point - gullible fools in Canada have been lied to - so much so that they are pulling out environmentally friendly natural gas furnaces and putting in electric at huge cost to themselves, all in the name of a fairy tale. It's a total myth and complete hoax.

[fluffy]

Thankfully, Canadians again elected a government that understands things like science and math, so the fringe beliefs of a few far right crazies about climate change being a fairy tale aren't really relevant at all.

Exactly. The single most important issue for the majority of voters in the last election was climate change. The amount of noise that deniers make is way out of proportion with their actual numbers. But it's not enough that the deniers will never make the important decisions, the real problem sits with politicians who lack the political will to go up against corporate polluters in any meaningful way.

[gertlush]

Or our leaders are shallow opportunists who lack the will, or intellect, to do anything other than pander and say whatever it takes to get elected

[Jlabute]

It really shouldn't be surprising that some far right Canadians are climate change deniers. The same types believe all sorts of ridiculous far right nonsense, like election fraud, that Trump wasn't an embarrassment, and the most hilarious of all - that the CPC didn't get their butts kicked 3 times in a row.

Thankfully, Canadians again elected a government that understands things like science and math, so the fringe beliefs of a few far right crazies about climate change being a fairy tale aren't really relevant at all.

It isn’t surprising that far left Canadians like climate Barbie believe in catastrophic climate change even though it is scientifically unsupported. The same people who own bicycle props and ride them in high heels. You are speaking on behalf of those who think budgets balance themselves and $6 trillion dollars equals zero, and leftists are artists, clowns, and bouncers, not mathematicians.
Apparently Biden is such a global embarrassment, Virginia democrats voted republican today.

[foenix]

It isn’t surprising that far left Canadians like climate Barbie believe in catastrophic climate change even though it is scientifically unsupported.

I have to say tho, climate Barbie side is far more supported scientifically then the eyes wide shut man made climate denier side.

[fluffy]

COP26 is a circus with a purpose: Putting climate change in the spotlight so no country can ignore it

"All the pomp and circumstance will leave organizers and participants open to accusations of allowing the hard work of multilateral negotiations that are supposed to be at the heart of the event to be overshadowed, and of hypocrisy given the carbon footprint of all the flights to get there.

But the hope has to be that the fear of looking ridiculous, if officials emerge from all this with negotiating stalemates and weak platitudes, will also compel participants from the nearly 200 countries involved in the climate negotiations at the centre of all the chaos to up their climate ambition, and work closely together on shared solutions. The same goes for representatives of heavily polluting industries engaging in the unofficial events surrounding the negotiations.

That might not happen if all concerned were able to go about their business more quietly. Countless previous international meetings have produced underwhelming results. And underwhelming would be disastrous for the credibility of all concerned, as evidenced by the UN’s Environment Programme reporting this week that even if all countries’ current emissions-reduction goals were met, we would still be on pace for global warming of at least 2.7 degrees C by the end of the century – well above the threshold at which the planet would be terribly and irreversibly altered."

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/ ... ge-in-the/

Canada is emerging as a "climate change bad boy" as information shows Canada's Oil & Gas sector, the largest and quickest growing source of emissions in the country, has little intention of meeting emission reduction targets and is, in fact, on course to increase production (and emissions) to the tune of 30% by 2030. Trudeau is coming off like just another Harper, more than willing to throw our enironmental future under the bus in return for short term gain.

It will be interesting to see if the COP26 conference now underway will produce any significant changes in government policy, or if we will just continue to leave hen house management in the hands of the foxes.