Pessimistic about climate

[Jlabute]

It's been going on fifty years now that science has been warning us that we were doing it wrong. Now I notice that the discussion is changing from reversing the effects of climate change to how can we live with it.

India had their largest crop in the last year. Hurricanes are not more frequent and intense, Tornados are not more frequent or intense. More people die from cold than hot. People start fires, not climate. Polar bear population is growing, Coral reef hits a 30 year high, sea levels have been gently rising for thousands of years... we have time to prepare for this if we have to.

Science has done no such thing as warning us. Science would be offended for hearing you say that. Activists have warned us, socialists have warned us. Some recent science articles tell us CO2 has nothing to do with warming. Models are warning us but models are not science. Models are based on many assumptions all of which can be wrong. We do not get real data from models. We've also been getting 100 years of climate lies and false claims and predictions.

Even without man, sea levels can still swing hundreds of feet and global temperatures can swing dozen of degrees. Some of this would be near impossible to live with, and nothing can be done to change it. Although, not in our lifetimes.

[fluffy]

This is exactly what I'm talking about, our desire to explain things away as natural, normal, nothing to worry about. The excuses given all show a short-term, near sighted perspective. The changes we are bringing about started with the industrial revolution two hundred years ago. Even if we act with purpose starting right now, things will still keep getting worse for decades.

[Jlabute]

This is exactly what I'm talking about, our desire to explain things away as natural, normal, nothing to worry about.

Versus the desire to create fear and panic over something that can't be detected or discerned from natural variability. There is too little accurate data over too little a period of time to really know anything about climate.

The excuses given all show a short-term, near sighted perspective.

Versus inadequate models that show the disasters we want to see 100 years in the future, such as impossible scenario RCP8.5. No model can predict the future, present, or past. You are relying on poor models which work as good as a strawberry licorice whip sticking out of Biden's butt to communicate with aliens.

The changes we are bringing about started with the industrial revolution two hundred years ago. Even if we act with purpose starting right now, things will still keep getting worse for decades.

What changes? What is getting worse? Act with purpose to do what? You believe so called 'changes' are obvious and outside the realm of natural variability? Change is always occurring and 7000 years ago Greenland hardly had any ice and global sea level was 10 to 15 feet higher while CO2 was the lowest it has ever been. Just natural climate change and no amount of money can stop it.

[The Green Barbarian]

things will still keep getting worse for decades.

as they haven't gotten worse why would they "keep getting worse"? This apocalyptic nonsense is just for the horribly gullible. In 1970 500,000 people perished in a cyclone in Bangladesh. How much "worse" is it going to get?? Answer - it isn't.

[fluffy]

Look, I'd love to hang around and talk to you guys, but I think my time would be better spent clipping my toenails.

[foenix]

It's been going on fifty years now that science has been warning us that we were doing it wrong. Now I notice that the discussion is changing from reversing the effects of climate change to how can we live with it.

India had their largest crop in the last year. Hurricanes are not more frequent and intense, Tornados are not more frequent or intense. More people die from cold than hot. People start fires, not climate. Polar bear population is growing, Coral reef hits a 30 year high, sea levels have been gently rising for thousands of years... we have time to prepare for this if we have to.

Science has done no such thing as warning us. Science would be offended for hearing you say that. Activists have warned us, socialists have warned us. Some recent science articles tell us CO2 has nothing to do with warming. Models are warning us but models are not science. Models are based on many assumptions all of which can be wrong. We do not get real data from models. We've also been getting 100 years of climate lies and false claims and predictions.

Even without man, sea levels can still swing hundreds of feet and global temperatures can swing dozen of degrees. Some of this would be near impossible to live with, and nothing can be done to change it. Although, not in our lifetimes.

That's not true, the only accurate means of determining those metrics only goes back 800,000 years and in that time, sea levels haven't swung hundreds of feet and global temperatures haven't swung dozens of degrees. For the last 800K years the CO2 in our atmosphere have averaged 260 ppm but since the Industrial Revolution, that level has steadily risen to so far 419 ppm .....with the corresponding record breakingyearly global temperatures. I'm wondering where that mini ice age is that was predicted by Milankovitch?

a.jpg

[Jlabute]

That's not true, the only accurate means of determining those metrics only goes back 800,000 years and in that time, sea levels haven't swung hundreds of feet and global temperatures haven't swung dozens of degrees. For the last 800K years the CO2 in our atmosphere have averaged 260 ppm but since the Industrial Revolution, that level has steadily risen to so far 419 ppm .....with the corresponding record breaking yearly global temperatures. I'm wondering where that mini ice age is that was predicted by Milankovitch?

It is true and I have no clue what you are talking about. A lot has happened in 800,000 years. At an average CO2 level of '260 ppm' (+/- 20ppm) between ice ages and interglacials ...

In the last 18,000 years, earth sea level has risen by 420 feet (130m). Why? We came out of an ice age. 420 feet is in the hundreds. Just in case you're not sure, 18 thousand is less than 800 thousand.

sealevel.jpg

Just to show there have been something like 8 ice ages in the last 800,000 years, so sea level has swung up and down, as have temperatures. The question is.... why? What causes this roughly 100,000 year cycle do you think? That's why we need science. Nothing is instantaneous either. The solar cycles are decreasing in intensity, cosmic rays increasing, UV increasing... who is to say what will happen, but the next solar cycle we will see as predicted, conditions similar to the maunder minimum. What those conditions will be is yet to be seen. Nothing is out of the ordinary.

glacials.png

[The Green Barbarian]

Look, I'd love to hang around and talk to you guys, but I think my time would be better spent clipping my toenails.

we all would rather be clipping our toenails than paying idiotic carbon taxes.

[foenix]

Just to show there have been something like 8 ice ages in the last 800,000 years, so sea level has swung up and down, as have temperatures. The question is.... why? What causes this roughly 100,000 year cycle do you think? That's why we need science. Nothing is instantaneous either. The solar cycles are decreasing in intensity, cosmic rays increasing, UV increasing... who is to say what will happen, but the next solar cycle we will see as predicted, conditions similar to the maunder minimum. What those conditions will be is yet to be seen. Nothing is out of the ordinary.

glacials.png

Except we're talking about temperature changes between 4 to 7 degrees over 5000 years or more......but in the last 100 years, it's risen 0.7 degrees which is 10 times the average ice-age-recovery-warming? Why is that? What does you're "modeling" say about that? What's the impetus?

https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/featu ... /page3.php

Plus according to some of the modeling, shouldn't we be going into an ice age? We're not? Why is that?

https://skepticalscience.com/heading-in ... ediate.htm

[foenix]

Look, I'd love to hang around and talk to you guys, but I think my time would be better spent clipping my toenails.

we all would rather be clipping our toenails than paying idiotic carbon taxes.

What's one more tax? If it's not the carbon tax, it'll be some other tax, get over it and clip you're toenails.

[The Green Barbarian]

What's one more tax? If it's not the carbon tax, it'll be some other tax, get over it and clip you're toenails.

Except that this is a tax on fairy tales. Tax other stuff, not fairy tales.

[foenix]

What's one more tax? If it's not the carbon tax, it'll be some other tax, get over it and clip you're toenails.

Except that this is a tax on fairy tales. Tax other stuff, not fairy tales.

Only the right thinks that as they seem to have a hard time admitting to reality like who won as the PM or that there were election fraud everywhere in the US and that Trump is the legit President....it's the same deal with man made climate change. Most Canadians don't believe man made climate change is a fairly tale tho and seem to have no problem paying the carbon tax.

[Pappywinkle]

Only the right thinks that as they seem to have a hard time admitting to reality like who won as the PM or that there were election fraud everywhere in the US and that Trump is the legit President....it's the same deal with man made climate change. Most Canadians don't believe man made climate change is a fairly tale tho and seem to have no problem paying the carbon tax.

It really shouldn't be surprising that some far right Canadians are climate change deniers. The same types believe all sorts of ridiculous far right nonsense, like election fraud, that Trump wasn't an embarrassment, and the most hilarious of all - that the CPC didn't get their butts kicked 3 times in a row.

Thankfully, Canadians again elected a government that understands things like science and math, so the fringe beliefs of a few far right crazies about climate change being a fairy tale aren't really relevant at all.

[The Green Barbarian]

Most Canadians don't believe man made climate change is a fairly tale tho and seem to have no problem paying the carbon tax.

That's my point - gullible fools in Canada have been lied to - so much so that they are pulling out environmentally friendly natural gas furnaces and putting in electric at huge cost to themselves, all in the name of a fairy tale. It's a total myth and complete hoax.

[fluffy]

Thankfully, Canadians again elected a government that understands things like science and math, so the fringe beliefs of a few far right crazies about climate change being a fairy tale aren't really relevant at all.

Exactly. The single most important issue for the majority of voters in the last election was climate change. The amount of noise that deniers make is way out of proportion with their actual numbers. But it's not enough that the deniers will never make the important decisions, the real problem sits with politicians who lack the political will to go up against corporate polluters in any meaningful way.