Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

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https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion ... the-wrong/

"Poilievre’s reappointment as Tory finance critic sends all the wrong messages"

SNIP

"During his three years as finance critic under former leader Andrew Scheer, Mr. Poilievre had established himself as a hardline proponent of hawkish monetary and fiscal policies. Some of the views he expressed on social media were clearly outside the mainstream. He sometimes flirted with conspiracy theories about the Bank and Canada being in cahoots with Justin Trudeau’s Liberals, raising questions about the central bank’s motives.

If Mr. O’Toole hoped that removing Mr. Poilievre from the most prominent position in the Tory shadow cabinet might lead the Carleton MP to tone down his rhetoric, he was dead wrong. Mr. Poilievre continued to use his Twitter feed to trash Bank of Canada Governor Tiff Macklem, upstaging his successor as finance critic, Ed Fast. His interventions in Mr. Fast’s file reeked of grandstanding and often distorted the facts.

On Tuesday, Mr. O’Toole rewarded Mr. Poilievre’s insubordination by reinstating him as Tory finance critic. The move spoke volumes about Mr. O’Toole’s priorities as he seeks to preserve his job. The moderate Mr. O’Toole who surfaced during the federal election campaign has reverted into his pre-campaign guise, pandering to the loudest voices on the right to save his leadership."

O'Toole was darned if did, darned if he didn't.

Skippy P. has made a living spewing nonsense criticisms of everyone and everything - and the diehard tinfoil hat CPC base loves him for it. Not because anything Skippy says is fact based or makes sense, but because he annoys anyone he can that isn't hard right. It is the "sport of trolling" that hard right CPC aficionados love to play from their bar stools.

The problem is that once again O'Toole has wussed out and flip flopped. Nothing O'Toole ever says or does seems to withstand the slightest adversity.

And yup, as a Liberal I'd love to see Skippy running the CPC. Easy peasy win in the next election. But as a Canadian I know that a stronger and more rational CPC would be good for Canada - and Skippy ain't part of that equation. Skippy is part of the CPC faction problem - he even ran his own campaign on a platform much different than O'Toole's - undermining O'Toole's efforts.

O'toole should realize that this isn't going to make things better - only worse. But too late, at least until the next flip flop.
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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

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hobbyguy wrote: Nov 10th, 2021, 8:16 pm https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion ... the-wrong/

"Poilievre’s reappointment as Tory finance critic sends all the wrong messages"
Nope. It sends all the right messages. As we are faced with having adolescent scum running our government right now, having Pierre on board fighting against tyranny and general stupidity we have come to expect from the Liberals is something all Canadians should treasure. Thank you for your service Pierre!!!
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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

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hobbyguy wrote: Nov 10th, 2021, 8:16 pm https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion ... the-wrong/

"Poilievre’s reappointment as Tory finance critic sends all the wrong messages"

SNIP

"During his three years as finance critic under former leader Andrew Scheer, Mr. Poilievre had established himself as a hardline proponent of hawkish monetary and fiscal policies. Some of the views he expressed on social media were clearly outside the mainstream. He sometimes flirted with conspiracy theories about the Bank and Canada being in cahoots with Justin Trudeau’s Liberals, raising questions about the central bank’s motives.
Yup. When right wing conspiracy theorists like Pollievre get appointed it sends the message the CPC embraces far right conspiracies. And that’s absolutely the wrong message unless you’re catering to the extreme right who would probably like such a ridiculous message.
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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

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hobbyguy wrote: Nov 10th, 2021, 8:16 pm https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion ... the-wrong/

"Poilievre’s reappointment as Tory finance critic sends all the wrong messages"



"Alexa, show me a weak, cowardly leader desperately trying to save his own job, rather than his foundering party."

"That was easy."


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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

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crookedmember wrote: Nov 11th, 2021, 8:50 am

"Alexa, show me a weak, cowardly leader desperately trying to save his own job, rather than his foundering party."

"That was easy."
Is there someone standing behind Erin? Because unlike his opponents, he isn't weak, cowardly or desperate, and is doing a fantastic job. Keep up the great work Erin! :up:
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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

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The current divisions around the "Vaccine Caucus" and some of the shadow cabinet appointments continue to muddy the waters for Mr O'Toole and the CPC. Moderate, small "c" conservatives, like myself, have lost faith with Mr O'Toole and the recent election, which was theirs to loose and they did, affirms this fact.

"Voters didn’t trust O’Toole with a winning mandate in the October election, partly because they were confused about his chameleon shifts from hard-right leadership candidate to middle-ground new leader to full-on moderate hopeful campaigning for the prime minister’s job.

He can’t afford to muddy about on the final push to end the pandemic by tolerating anti-vaccination sympathizers and supporters inside a Conservative team that MUST lead the country by MP example."

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/don-mar ... -1.5658615

It is time for Mr O'Toole to use his homegrown military leadership skills to take a solid position. Constant flip flops are not the way to go! Expel the anti-vaxxers from caucus, define a clear environmental policy, and outline fiscal budget expectations before the new Parliament sits. If you cannot do that, GO ERIN GO and allow someone else with true leadership skill take your place.
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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

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erinmore3775 wrote: Nov 11th, 2021, 9:22 am The current divisions around the "Vaccine Caucus" and some of the shadow cabinet appointments continue to muddy the waters for Mr O'Toole and the CPC. Moderate, small "c" conservatives, like myself, have lost faith with Mr O'Toole and the recent election, which was theirs to loose and they did, affirms this fact.

"Voters didn’t trust O’Toole with a winning mandate in the October election, partly because they were confused about his chameleon shifts from hard-right leadership candidate to middle-ground new leader to full-on moderate hopeful campaigning for the prime minister’s job.

He can’t afford to muddy about on the final push to end the pandemic by tolerating anti-vaccination sympathizers and supporters inside a Conservative team that MUST lead the country by MP example."

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/don-mar ... -1.5658615

It is time for Mr O'Toole to use his homegrown military leadership skills to take a solid position. Constant flip flops are not the way to go! Expel the anti-vaxxers from caucus, define a clear environmental policy, and outline fiscal budget expectations before the new Parliament sits. If you cannot do that, GO ERIN GO and allow someone else with true leadership skill take your place.
O'Toole is not that guy. Clarity is not his thing, he would rather try for all sides of every issue. Here is O'Toole smiling with "Mr. Ivermectin": https://pressprogress.ca/conservative-m ... -covid-19/

It will be interesting to see how many CPC MPs show up in person when parliament opens. It was very nice of Trudeau to give O'Toole and the dumb dumbs enough time to get out of this hole, but the dumb dumbs kept digging and O'Toole chose not to take away their shovels.

Given that this issue is very much stacked against the CPC in public opinion, this can only exacerbate the splits within the CPC.
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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

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A "leader" who can't competently control his own party isn't going to be competent at the helm of a country.

O'Toole and Scheer were both elected by special interests for their malleability.

They're not leaders. One was too stupid to pass the insurance agent's test, and the other looks and acts like Elmer Fudd.
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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

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crookedmember wrote: Nov 12th, 2021, 7:35 am A "leader" who can't competently control his own party isn't going to be competent at the helm of a country.

O'Toole and Scheer were both elected by special interests for their malleability.

They're not leaders. One was too stupid to pass the insurance agent's test, and the other looks and acts like Elmer Fudd.
Can't say as I view either one of them as stupid. Don't view either as real leaders though. Not everybody has that correct mix of skills and talents to be a high level leader.

Even then, those skills and talents have be the right mix in context of the times. Winston Churchill was the "right person" for a period of time in context, but not so much for the peace time that followed.

Another time, another place and context, and either of them could look a lot better.

The current period of time is pretty tough to navigate. I don't think anyone was prepared for the amplification of the worst in us that social media has amplified and cultivated. The mentality of things that are currently happening in world is very difficult to navigate when so many have "siloed" their thinking, information input, and become intolerant because of that. Social media seems to reward the outrageous and shallow, while denigrating the tolerant compromises that required to keep a society functioning are its optimum.

I do think O'Toole is trying, but doesn't seem to have the right mix for the job - but perhaps he can surprise. The next 3-6 months with tell the tale.

The mix of factions within the CPC may be irreconcilable precisely because of the situation where folks have become so stuck in their silos.

The Liberals have pressure relief outlets in the NDP and another in the Bloc and so are less factional. That situation applies to both the Bloc and the NDP as well. All three can "bleed" absolutists and extremists to other parties. That may be why the leadership situations in those parties seems more stable - although part of that equation is that the constituents of those parties are more willing to find workable compromises.

Where we are seeing instability and infighting is within the CPC and the within the Green party. In both situations they have not had the luxury of a little bit of healthy bleeding to other parties - and have the most uncompromising constituencies. The various absolutist factions within the CPC have always been a bit of an unholy alliance, and I find it difficult to see a way forward to a compromise between them. The anti-choice bunch do not compromise. The gun nut bunch do not compromise. The anti-vaxxers are impossible. The climate change deniers are locked in. The neo-liberal economics business bunch - well they will take on anything that feeds their wallets.

The rise of the PPC, and the emergence of the Mavericks may indeed give the CPC the kinds of outlets they need. But are they willing to give up on "winning" as the goal and build a new vision?
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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

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hobbyguy wrote: Nov 12th, 2021, 8:59 am

Can't say as I view either one of them as stupid.

But they have been defeated three times now by someone our misguided and deluded friends on the right routinely claim is stupid.

While not stupid in the traditional sense, they do lack Trudeau's analytical campaign skills and his unflappable temperament.

When their campaigns fell off the cliff, both resorted to name calling and making it personal

That's how kids, not adults, behave.

If Scheer and O'Toole are the best that party has to offer, they are in deep ****.
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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

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crookedmember wrote: Nov 12th, 2021, 9:47 am
But they have been defeated three times now by someone our misguided and deluded friends on the right routinely claim is stupid.
I don't know who is "right" but I don't think Jagmeet is stupid. He's a nice guy who cries too often when doing speeches, but he seems pretty bright.

But so does Erin. He's a great leader doing a really good job.
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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

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crookedmember wrote: Nov 12th, 2021, 9:47 am
hobbyguy wrote: Nov 12th, 2021, 8:59 am

Can't say as I view either one of them as stupid.

But they have been defeated three times now by someone our misguided and deluded friends on the right routinely claim is stupid.

While not stupid in the traditional sense, they do lack Trudeau's analytical campaign skills and his unflappable temperament.

When their campaigns fell off the cliff, both resorted to name calling and making it personal

That's how kids, not adults, behave.

If Scheer and O'Toole are the best that party has to offer, they are in deep ****.
It is neither O'Toole's nor Scheer's fault that the CPC did not win a plurality of ridings. Party leaders are partly a reflection of what the base wants. In O'Toole's case, that was unclear, and that lack of clarity is at the root of the problem. "True blue" Scheer was never going to win but was clear in following what the base wants (and did very slightly better).

Winning a plurality of the ridings ought not be the raison d'etre for any political party. Yes, there will always be pols for whom that is the only worthwhile goal, but purpose of representative democracy is to represent. If the only goal is "winning" what is the point beyond the enhancement of the personal fortunes/egos of pols?

Arguably, both the Bloc and the NDP do well because they express a different vision for the future. Not one that can win over enough constituencies nationally to win a plurality of ridings, but one that represents a significant constituency world view. Also arguably, collectively the Bloc and NDP effectively prevent any other party from running amok with a plurality "win". Within that, the Bloc and the NDP seem to be adept at empowering those visions through effective constructive criticism and influencing the compromises of national government. The three parties currently in a position to really empower their constituencies are the Bloc, the NDP and the Liberals. That situation is likely to persist for the foreseeable future as the likelihood of majority governments appears slim. I really don't think Canadians want to see majority governments anymore.

The CPC needs to wrap their collective heads around that. Opposition for the sake of opposition, "the resistance", is cooking their goose and NOT empowering their constituencies - the latter being the most important part. Everyday Canadians generally don't care about the noisy nonsense of political theater that has permeated the official opposition - and in fact are turned off by it. Everyday Canadians just want government that focuses on competency and making their lives better.

How O'Toole - or anyone - can accomplish that turn for the CPC is going to be interesting for political junkies like me, but until the CPC can figure how to empower constituencies that want to improve our governance, they are dead ducks and unable to properly serve their constituency.

The landscape of the CPC is pretty complex and full of paradoxes. I look at Sohi and Gondek winning the mayor races in Calgary and Edmonton and see a wide gulf between what they express, and what the CPC expresses - yet the CPC does well in both cities. But will that last? If I think about Iveson to Sohi, and Nemshi to Gondek, the direction doesn't match what the CPC are expressing. So which is the future? The federal or city representation?
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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

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erinmore3775 wrote: Nov 9th, 2021, 8:28 am https://cfjctoday.com/2021/11/09/otoole ... -included/

The embattled CPC leader, Mr O'Toole, has announced his Opposition shadow cabinet. Significant omissions are Lewis and Gladu . . .

My guess is O'Toole needs Lewis and Gladu to continue to share core CPC messages with Facebook groups.

But looking at O'Toole's shadow cabinet of 49 (to shadow 39 REAL ministers!) it doesn't look like there's a lot of talent or intelligence there.

In fact, the only difference I can see between O'Toole's cabinet and an IKEA cabinet is the IKEA cabinet isn't full of loose screws.
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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

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crookedmember wrote: Nov 14th, 2021, 12:14 pm
But looking at O'Toole's shadow cabinet of 49 (to shadow 39 REAL ministers!) it doesn't look like there's a lot of talent or intelligence there.
.
On the contrary, given it's the Conservatives, there's a lot of intelligence there, so much more than the idiotic children they are opposing. The CPC are definitely far more intelligent than any of the other parties, and are doing a fantastic job. Keep up the great work - you guys are our only real hope against the tyranny and evil scum of the Liberals and NDP. :up:
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Re: Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

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crookedmember wrote: Nov 14th, 2021, 12:14 pm
But looking at O'Toole's shadow cabinet of 49 (to shadow 39 REAL ministers!) it doesn't look like there's a lot of talent or intelligence there.
.
This is so true. And even with it being conservatives, it still turned out to be surprisingly disappointing. The CPC truly are the craziest and most divided party, and represent all of the most un-Canadian values. But with the conservatives so busy fighting amongst themselves over various right wing conspiracies the other parties can govern without the blabbering children from the CPC. As long as the CPC is busy imploding, I say fantastic. Keep up the great work destroying the regressive and un-Canadian evil scum CPC!

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