Pessimistic about climate

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Re: Pessimistic about climate

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Sabrina Maddeaux: Climate change programs are rife with corruption — the clowns are running the circus

As the UN Climate Change Conference (COP26) nears an end, it may be more important to talk about what wasn’t discussed at the summit than what was. Predictably, trendy culprits of the day like oil, private jets and cars were the subject of highly-publicized speeches and promises, with buzzy terms like “sustainability” and “net-zero” tossed about like confetti on a new bride.

With Western leaders’ approval ratings slumping to record lows, they’re eager to change the political conversation. The lingering pandemic, inflation, and general government incompetence are downers –– but a brighter, cleaner, greener future is something they’re happy to get behind. And so, suddenly, every prime minister and president is the Oprah of climate promises: “You get a net-zero pledge! You get a net-zero pledge! Everybody gets a net-zero pledge!”

The problem is you can’t meaningfully tackle climate change without confronting some very ugly realities, namely, corruption. It’s a word conspicuously missing from COP26, despite climate corruption being one of the biggest hurdles to real progress on everything from deforestation to carbon emissions.

You can throw all the money in the world at green initiatives, but if that money goes missing into the coffers of kleptocrats and their friends, we’ve actually made the problem worse. If green programs lack basic standards of transparency and accountability, and are thus easily corrupted, then they’re little more than PR campaigns that present a dangerously misleading veneer of progress.

SNIP

In Bangladesh, an estimated 35 per cent of climate project funds are embezzled. In Slovakia, the government sold carbon credits at half price to a shell company connected to one of its coalition parties. In Indonesia, political leaders have a long history of benefiting from generous subsidies provided to the forestry sector, bribery in the natural resources sector, and poor monitoring of well-connected companies’ environmental obligations. Nigeria’s national oil company couldn’t account for almost $20 billion in revenue in 2012 and 2013 alone as its rivers fill with black sludge and its people suffer from respiratory illnesses.

SNIP

Ignoring the role corruption plays in climate change doesn’t just undermine our global efforts, it actively works against them. In too many cases, taxpayer dollars are funnelled to kleptocrats at the expense of the very environment and vulnerable communities they’re meant to protect.
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/sa ... d=msedgntp
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Re: Pessimistic about climate

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Well all I can say is that the youngsters today need to pray that this is a short-cycle natural trend.

If left up to us village idiots, we'll just make it worse by trying to fix it.

As for these COP fests (aka let's blow the expense accounts), total waste of time. The worlds 3 biggest economies either don't show up or just pay it lip service.
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Re: Pessimistic about climate

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bidwell2 wrote: Nov 13th, 2021, 8:25 pm Well all I can say is that the youngsters today need to pray that this is a short-cycle natural trend.
Not sure what you mean - what is "this"? Why is "this" (what we are experiencing for climate right now) any different than any other period in history?
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Re: Pessimistic about climate

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foenix wrote: Nov 12th, 2021, 9:36 am
Could have fooled me...........

2020 Tied for Warmest Year on Record, NASA Analysis Shows
Earth’s global average surface temperature in 2020 tied with 2016 as the warmest year on record, according to an analysis by NASA.

Continuing the planet’s long-term warming trend, the year’s globally averaged temperature was 1.84 degrees Fahrenheit (1.02 degrees Celsius) warmer than the baseline 1951-1980 mean, according to scientists at NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS) in New York. 2020 edged out 2016 by a very small amount, within the margin of error of the analysis, making the years effectively tied for the warmest year on record.

“The last seven years have been the warmest seven years on record, typifying the ongoing and dramatic warming trend,” said GISS Director Gavin Schmidt. “Whether one year is a record or not is not really that important – the important things are long-term trends. With these trends, and as the human impact on the climate increases, we have to expect that records will continue to be broken.”
temp-2020_comparison-plot.jpg.jpeg

https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/2020 ... ysis-shows

Try this interactive graph..........

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2015 ... the-world/

Yes, but NASA is full of scientists with years of education, decades of experience, and Ph.Ds and stuff.

If you want the real scoop on climate, you have to watch some goofs on youtube.
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Re: Pessimistic about climate

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foenix wrote: Nov 12th, 2021, 9:36 am
Could have fooled me...........

2020 Tied for Warmest Year on Record, NASA Analysis Shows
Earth’s global average surface temperature in 2020 tied with 2016 as the warmest year on record, according to an analysis by NASA.

Continuing the planet’s long-term warming trend, the year’s globally averaged temperature was 1.84 degrees Fahrenheit (1.02 degrees Celsius) warmer than the baseline 1951-1980 mean, according to scientists at NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS) in New York. 2020 edged out 2016 by a very small amount, within the margin of error of the analysis, making the years effectively tied for the warmest year on record.

“The last seven years have been the warmest seven years on record, typifying the ongoing and dramatic warming trend,” said GISS Director Gavin Schmidt. “Whether one year is a record or not is not really that important – the important things are long-term trends. With these trends, and as the human impact on the climate increases, we have to expect that records will continue to be broken.”
temp-2020_comparison-plot.jpg.jpeg

https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/2020 ... ysis-shows

Try this interactive graph..........

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2015 ... the-world/
Nice Cherrypicking!

There are 5 scientifically valid global thermometers, and 4 of them say that 2016 was warmer, but you pick the one thermometer that has 2020 tied. You need to go back to science class.
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Re: Pessimistic about climate

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crookedmember wrote: Nov 14th, 2021, 10:28 am

Yes, but NASA is full of scientists with years of education, decades of experience, and Ph.Ds and stuff.

Yeah, and they're supposed to be studying how to advance humans in to space. That was why NASA was founded. NASA was never to be co-opted like this to "study" apocalyptic fairy tales. Every day they waste on this stupid man-made climate change hoax is another day that mankind doesn't advance as a species, but just stays in this stasis, not advancing, just sitting here, wringing our hands about something that doesn't even exist.
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Re: Pessimistic about climate

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foenix wrote: Nov 12th, 2021, 9:36 am
Of course, during a worldwide Pandemic which took out millions of jobs along with millions of lives, the priorities would reflect that.....did I not say that already? Once we get out of this crisis, I'm sure most of the world will try and put our efforts into trying to figure out the environmental crisis that's surely coming down the road.

Most historic periods that we have some reliable records for changed 5 to 7 degrees in thousands of years but since the Industrial Revolution the temperature climb has gone up 10X faster? Now why is that? What environmental factor has changed in the last 800,000 years to have the global temperature shoot up ten times faster than in the past.....please explain?

As for this....what do you mean? Have you not been around?
Temperature has been flat for the last 6 years.
Could have fooled me...

2020 Tied for Warmest Year on Record, NASA Analysis Shows
Earth’s global average surface temperature in 2020 tied with 2016 as the warmest year on record, according to an analysis by NASA.

Continuing the planet’s long-term warming trend, the year’s globally averaged temperature was 1.84 degrees Fahrenheit (1.02 degrees Celsius) warmer than the baseline 1951-1980 mean, according to scientists at NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS) in New York. 2020 edged out 2016 by a very small amount, within the margin of error of the analysis, making the years effectively tied for the warmest year on record.

“The last seven years have been the warmest seven years on record, typifying the ongoing and dramatic warming trend,” said GISS Director Gavin Schmidt. “Whether one year is a record or not is not really that important – the important things are long-term trends. With these trends, and as the human impact on the climate increases, we have to expect that records will continue to be broken.”
There will be no figuring out any crisis if our economy fails. Global temperature has risen dramatically in the past, but it is not as though we have plenty of accurate data.

Here are two temperature charts using UAH6 and HADCRUT4 data sets. Both show the last 7 years were flat and slightly decreasing. You'd probably be able to see this in GISS if the X-axis were not so compressed and the Y-axis not so expanded. Even if the last 7 years are tied for warmest year, that means temperature is not rising.

image-8.png
image-9.png

Not to mention, Greenland where people like to say ice melt is accelerating, this isn't the case, unless one considers negative acceleration. Over the last decade, the rate of melt has slowed dramatically rather than accelerated. Greenland has had much less ice during times of Vikings. The Earth has spent most of it's existence without ice caps too. This is not an unusual thing and peoples migrate due to ice gain and loss. Could very well mean sea level rise is not accelerating either.
Greenland-total-ice-1.png
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Re: Pessimistic about climate

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Re: Pessimistic about climate

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Jlabute wrote: Nov 15th, 2021, 6:08 pm

There will be no figuring out any crisis if our economy fails. Global temperature has risen dramatically in the past, but it is not as though we have plenty of accurate data.

Here are two temperature charts using UAH6 and HADCRUT4 data sets. Both show the last 7 years were flat and slightly decreasing. You'd probably be able to see this in GISS if the X-axis were not so compressed and the Y-axis not so expanded. Even if the last 7 years are tied for warmest year, that means temperature is not rising.


image-8.png


image-9.png
i guess it all depends on the cherry picked data......
The myth of no warming since 1998 was based on the satellite record estimates of the temperature of the atmosphere. However, as discussed in the video below by Peter Sinclair, even that argument is no longer accurate. The satellites show warming since 1998 too.

There's also a tendency for some people just to concentrate on atmospheric or surface air temperatures when there are other, more useful, indicators that can give us a better idea how rapidly the world is warming. More than 90% of global warming heat goes into warming the oceans, while less than 3% goes into increasing the atmospheric and surface air temperature. Records show that the Earth has been warming at a steady rate before and since 1998 and there is no sign of it slowing any time soon (Figure 1).
fig 1.jpg
Even if we focus exclusively on global surface temperatures, Cowtan & Way (2013) shows that when we account for temperatures across the entire globe (including the Arctic, which is the part of the planet warming fastest), the global surface warming trend for 1997–2015 is approximately 0.14°C per decade.
https://skepticalscience.com/global-war ... n-1998.htm
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Re: Pessimistic about climate

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Jlabute wrote: Nov 15th, 2021, 6:08 pm
Not to mention, Greenland where people like to say ice melt is accelerating, this isn't the case, unless one considers negative acceleration. Over the last decade, the rate of melt has slowed dramatically rather than accelerated. Greenland has had much less ice during times of Vikings. The Earth has spent most of it's existence without ice caps too. This is not an unusual thing and peoples migrate due to ice gain and loss. Could very well mean sea level rise is not accelerating either.

Greenland-total-ice-1.png
Again, more cherry picking, looking at only the small subset of data to fit one's narrative.....but we all know Greenland is hemorrhaging ice mass.

Warming Greenland ice sheet passes point of no return
Even if the climate cools, study finds, glaciers will continue to shrink

Nearly 40 years of satellite data from Greenland shows that glaciers on the island have shrunk so much that even if global warming were to stop today, the ice sheet would continue shrinking.

The finding, published today, Aug. 13, in the journal Nature Communications Earth and Environment, means that Greenland's glaciers have passed a tipping point of sorts, where the snowfall that replenishes the ice sheet each year cannot keep up with the ice that is flowing into the ocean from glaciers............

The researchers found that, throughout the 1980s and 90s, snow gained through accumulation and ice melted or calved from glaciers were mostly in balance, keeping the ice sheet intact. Through those decades, the researchers found, the ice sheets generally lost about 450 gigatons (about 450 billion tons) of ice each year from flowing outlet glaciers, which was replaced with snowfall.

"We are measuring the pulse of the ice sheet -- how much ice glaciers drain at the edges of the ice sheet -- which increases in the summer. And what we see is that it was relatively steady until a big increase in ice discharging to the ocean during a short five- to six-year period," King said.

The researchers' analysis found that the baseline of that pulse -- the amount of ice being lost each year -- started increasing steadily around 2000, so that the glaciers were losing about 500 gigatons each year. Snowfall did not increase at the same time, and over the last decade, the rate of ice loss from glaciers has stayed about the same -- meaning the ice sheet has been losing ice more rapidly than it's being replenished.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 123550.htm
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Re: Pessimistic about climate

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Glacier wrote: Nov 14th, 2021, 3:35 pm
Nice Cherrypicking!

There are 5 scientifically valid global thermometers, and 4 of them say that 2016 was warmer, but you pick the one thermometer that has 2020 tied. You need to go back to science class.

globaltemps.png
From one cherry picker to another, hey? [icon_lol2.gif]
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Re: Pessimistic about climate

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foenix wrote: Nov 16th, 2021, 5:14 am From one cherry picker to another, hey? [icon_lol2.gif]
It's not cherry picking to show all datasets in one graph.
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Re: Pessimistic about climate

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Glacier wrote: Nov 16th, 2021, 5:18 am
foenix wrote: Nov 16th, 2021, 5:14 am From one cherry picker to another, hey? [icon_lol2.gif]
It's not cherry picking to show all datasets in one graph.
It was a general comment.... :biggrin:
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Re: Pessimistic about climate

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Rex kills it here and is totally right. Enough with these fear-mongering climate conferences, where the global elite get to assemble every year, including our own complete idiot of a PM and a giant entourage of Canadian idiots like Elizabeth May and former Climate Einstein Catherine McKenna. Enough already. It's just disgusting, and horribly stupid to watch this go down every year:
Rex Murphy: We need a goal of net-zero climate conferences by 2030

Lorrie Goldstein — sage columnist and editor emeritus of the Toronto Sun — is among the first to call for an end to the gigantic, carbon-spewing gatherings of tech tycoons, decaying aristocrats, current and former heads of state, louche Hollywood prattlers and green fanatics, known as the Conference of the Parties, which, for 26 consecutive years, have tormented the sanity of the world. With immensely refreshing directness, the lede sentence of his latest column says what needs to be said: “It’s time to put the United Nations’ annual global gabfest on climate change out of its misery and ours.”

Now that he has rung this particular bell, it is up to the rest of us in his tribe, his fellow-laptop tribunes, to take us his call.

The Conference of the Parties is a dangerous and potentially fatal weight upon the world’s patience. Any gathering that brings Prince Charles, Bill Gates, Barack Obama, Joe Biden, Justin Trudeau, Leonardo DiCaprio, Bill McKibben, Catherine McKenna and Elizabeth May into the same venue and pretends not only to listen to what they say, but makes an equal show of pretending to know what they are talking about, presents a devastating trial on the nerves of the entire population of the world.

There have been 26 of them so far throughout the world, putting immense strain on the local infrastructure, crowding air lanes with fleets of private jets, stuffing the luxury hotels, displacing citizens from their residences and generally imposing great strains on the tolerance and tranquilly of the local populations.

Though Goldstein has not explicitly called on the world to start a movement — some vast global resistance to these extravagant, ostentatious, prideful climate festivals — it is nevertheless up to us to take his cue. He has sounded the alarm. We lesser fry in the turbid waters of column construction must take up the cause and burn our laptops with urgent calls to put an end, once and for all, to these events, before the world explodes in boredom and weariness at these useless, swollen displays from the world’s most annoying environmentalist peacocks.

“Down with COP!” must be our rallying cry. We are done with your crazy speeches, your constant wailing about the end of the world, your slobbering over Greta Thunberg (even though she stayed outside this time). We are tired of Al Gore hauling himself out of whatever crypt he’s been occupying, of the posing dilettantes of Hollywood and those tedious climate “experts” with their tree-ring fetishes and insuperably dull PowerPoint presentations on the inevitable Armageddon if Bermuda doesn’t build windmills or Rhode Island doesn’t close down its coal plants.

SNIP

Millions may expire from pure ennui and overwhelming tedium. So let the cry go out: “Net-zero COP by 2030!”

All that remains is to thank the gentlemanly Lorrie Goldstein for his leadership and his iron resolve to protect the world from these horrific — I cannot better his term — “gabfests.”
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Re: Pessimistic about climate

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Joe Oliver: How much green pain will Canadians tolerate?

COP26, supposedly humanity’s “last best chance,” struggled to yield even faint hope of keeping temperatures from rising 2 C, let alone 1.5 C. Even so, egged on by catastrophists and the mainstream media, Canadian politicians are adopting increasingly damaging climate policies. Should we be surprised that Canada’s delegation to COP26 was the world’s largest? Surprised, not so much. Appalled, definitely.

So far, our politicians still seem to be supported by a public they have bombarded with dire warnings about an existential climate emergency, while dishonestly downplaying the costs of mitigation and ignoring the reality that Canada is too small a global emitter, at 1.53 per cent of the world total, to achieve anything measurable. Moreover, at least one of their hugely expensive initiatives is actually environmentally counter-productive: the missed opportunity to export oil and gas to Asia to substitute for higher-emitting coal.

Prime Minister Trudeau and many premiers will not have the intellectual honesty to concede their policies are ineffectual and will reduce our standard of living and endanger our security and national unity. Candour would produce a political backlash that would undermine public support for green initiatives and imperil their own political survival. So instead we are treated to shameless misrepresentation and mindless self-harm.

Quebec Premier François Legault recently announced he will block further exploitation and development of fossil fuels in the province, which at COP26 joined the Denmark- and Costa Rica-led BOGA (Beyond Oil and Gas Alliance). According to the Montreal Economic Institute, the opportunity cost of abandoning Quebec’s hydrocarbon resources would be over 9,000 jobs, $93 billion in wealth and $15 billion in funding to the government. Meanwhile, the province is importing some 300,000 barrels of oil per day and spending $5 billion annually for Alberta and U.S. energy. Oil and gas make up over 80 per cent of its trade deficit.
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/topstor ... d=msedgntp

Should we be surprised that Canada’s delegation to COP26 was the world’s largest?

If this is true, our idiot government should be hanging their heads in shame. What a shameful waste of taxpayer funds, on something so mind-numbingly stupid. A thorough waste of our national resources. Wasting $600 million on an election no one wanted to accomplish nothing, and now this shameful waste. Our current government just plain sucks.
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