Lake Country Church: Not gay accepting?

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TheLiteralKingofEngland
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Re: Lake Country Church: Not gay accepting?

Post by TheLiteralKingofEngland »

Sparki55 wrote: Nov 18th, 2021, 12:09 pm
TheLiteralKingofEngland wrote: Nov 18th, 2021, 11:51 am Being gay isn’t a lifestyle and as noted numerous times, the woman specifically asked the church if it was accepting of homosexuality. So in fact, she did not want to join a group disapproving of her right to exist as a gay person. She never sought to enforce her belief systems on a church either. I don’t know why these facts are being ignored in favour of suggesting it’s acceptable for a church to flat-out lie.
Why don't you apply for a role in a movie that is requesting race "y" and you are race "x". No matter what you do you will not get the role. That's not discriminatory and completely legal. So why join a church that doesn't want gay people? Clearly their mission is to follow the bible.
She was told the church was accepting of gay people. I don’t know why this fact is so difficult to comprehend. I mean, it's right at the top of the article:
She asked if the church was LGBTQ+ affirming and she says he told her "you will be loved here."
Your analogy would only make sense if the movie producers requested race X, a person were hired for the role, then the producers were to say “ehhh, we actually lied, we don’t want your kind here.”

You do realize there are actually churches that accept homosexuality and don't send their members hate literature, right? My brother belongs to one church like this. A gay person wanting to attend a Christian church isn't attempting to change the church's belief system. The woman is even saying, if they want to be discriminatory dicks then fine, but be upfront about it and don't lie.
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Sparki55
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Re: Lake Country Church: Not gay accepting?

Post by Sparki55 »

TheLiteralKingofEngland wrote: Nov 18th, 2021, 12:11 pm She was told the church was accepting of gay people. I don’t know why this fact is so difficult to comprehend. I mean, it's right at the top of the article
Was she not allowed to join the church? Could the church believe she is being loved by them preaching their interpretation of god to her and sending her handouts to "find the lord" or whatever?

She's free to leave and try another church, this is such a non-issue.
TheLiteralKingofEngland
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Re: Lake Country Church: Not gay accepting?

Post by TheLiteralKingofEngland »

Sparki55 wrote: Nov 18th, 2021, 1:45 pm
TheLiteralKingofEngland wrote: Nov 18th, 2021, 12:11 pm She was told the church was accepting of gay people. I don’t know why this fact is so difficult to comprehend. I mean, it's right at the top of the article
Was she not allowed to join the church? Could the church believe she is being loved by them preaching their interpretation of god to her and sending her handouts to "find the lord" or whatever?

She's free to leave and try another church, this is such a non-issue.
We clearly don’t agree but I admit I’m very perplexed why you appear to be making excuses for blatant lying. It’s kind of like a club declaring that all races are welcome then the next day changing course and saying blacks aren’t allowed.

Have you ever attended a trivia night or something and told everyone’s welcome then told white guys aren’t allowed moving forward? Probably not because it’s a bizarre decision based on deception but for some odd reason people find such decisions acceptable if a church is involved.

Handouts to “find the lord” are a far cry from conversion therapy btw.

Hey, I’m having a bbq tomorrow and everyone is invited. But when people arrive I’ll say no Natives. I didn’t lie, I’m just a Christian who,personally finds certain lifestyles abhorrent. Those people are free to find another bbq.
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Sparki55
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Re: Lake Country Church: Not gay accepting?

Post by Sparki55 »

TheLiteralKingofEngland wrote: Nov 18th, 2021, 2:19 pm We clearly don’t agree but I admit I’m very perplexed why you appear to be making excuses for blatant lying. It’s kind of like a club declaring that all races are welcome then the next day changing course and saying blacks aren’t allowed.
You think it's lying. I think it's a misunderstanding.

She is welcome. She can continue to attend this church. They aren't banning her. They accept who she is right now. Next is the conversion to their beliefs which goes against her choice of who to love. I'm extending here, but I imagine this church would allow her to continue to attend but will also continue to try and stop what they see as sinning.

Accepting gays and saying "you will be loved here" does not mean they are tolerant of what they deem a sin. The truth is she is welcome to attend. You think this also means they fully accept her being gay.
TheLiteralKingofEngland
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Re: Lake Country Church: Not gay accepting?

Post by TheLiteralKingofEngland »

Sparki55 wrote: Nov 18th, 2021, 3:00 pm They accept who she is right now. Next is the conversion to their beliefs which goes against her choice of who to love.
Except being gay isn't a choice which I thought was already established and agreed here, but again with the word 'choice....'
Sparki55 wrote: Nov 18th, 2021, 3:00 pm Accepting gays and saying "you will be loved here" does not mean they are tolerant of what they deem a sin. The truth is she is welcome to attend. You think this also means they fully accept her being gay.
What kind of rational person would think "we love you" has a hidden meaning involving the correspondence of hate literature?
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Sparki55
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Re: Lake Country Church: Not gay accepting?

Post by Sparki55 »

TheLiteralKingofEngland wrote: Nov 18th, 2021, 3:17 pm Except being gay isn't a choice which I thought was already established and agreed here, but again with the word 'choice....'
Being gay isn't a choice according to our laws and societal consensus.

The earth is also round.

People are free to form groups where they discuss and practice that the earth isn't round and being gay is a sin.

You think the church should bend to your/ her preference and I'm saying she should try another church.
TheLiteralKingofEngland
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Re: Lake Country Church: Not gay accepting?

Post by TheLiteralKingofEngland »

Sparki55 wrote: Nov 18th, 2021, 3:28 pm You think the church should bend to your/ her preference and I'm saying she should try another church.
I think you missed my point entirely....

I've said churches shouldn't lie to people's faces, sucker in minority groups, and then try to change them with conversion therapy and hate literature.

I've also said that at no point did this person try to get the church to "bend to her preference" as you're calling it. As repeated over and over, she asked if she'd be affirmed was told 'she'd be loved.' That's not attempting to change practices, it's asking a question and then being hoodwinked by a lie...But you somehow see it as a "misunderstanding" and that somehow this lady was in the wrong for trying to get church members to bend the knee to her sexual orientation.
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Sparki55
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Re: Lake Country Church: Not gay accepting?

Post by Sparki55 »

TheLiteralKingofEngland wrote: Nov 18th, 2021, 3:33 pm I think you missed my point entirely....

I've said churches shouldn't lie to people's faces, sucker in minority groups, and then try to change them with conversion therapy and hate literature.
I hear your point. You think the church mislead her by saying she would be welcome to attend and then handed her a bunch of information on how being gay is a sin.

I am saying you are mistaken in your assumption. The church only told her she was welcome to attend, that she would be loved. They let her attend and likely in their opinion being loved involves helping people follow the word of their god and explain what is a sin.

They didn't lie to her face. They said she would be accepted and loved. She was accepted and then was given information on what is considered a sin by the church. They didn't all of a sudden decide when she showed up that she wasn't allowed in anymore and proceed to slam the door in her face.
barianqueen
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Re: Lake Country Church: Not gay accepting?

Post by barianqueen »

In what kind of twisted world does You Will Be Loved translate to:

We vehemently disagree with your existence as a homosexual woman and want you to undergo reparation therapy to change your sexual proclivities.

Are members of varying races, occupations, and genders being told to undero reparation therapy or only teh gays?
AtlantisKelowna
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Re: Lake Country Church: Not gay accepting?

Post by AtlantisKelowna »

AtlantisKelowna post wrote: If you do not believe that's fine if you do that's fine as well. Who are you to dictate people's religious choices or beliefs?
youjustcomplain wrote: Nov 18th, 2021, 9:03 am As long as a church is getting government support through tax breaks, all tax payers have every right to criticize what goes on in those institutions. Not with individuals beliefs, but the actual acts that take place. If churches want more impunity to public scrutiny, then they need to stop accepting tax breaks.
In this case when a congregation member took it upon themselves to send information to this lady how is it the church's responsibility? The church isn't responsible for what people do unless they are employed by them and in this case, the person was not.

Corporations, non-profits and charities all benefit from tax breaks much like churches and many of them share questionable practices, engage in fraudulent activity and have executive boards making ridiculous 6 figure salaries. I feel as though these are much bigger issues than a religion following its beliefs and being shamed for doing so.

The best part about religion is that you can choose to be religious or not, it is not mandatory but if you choose to follow one, then expect to share the beliefs and not have them changed to suit your needs. Pretty simple concept.
AtlantisKelowna post wrote: I could make a similar argument in regard to the LGBTQ community demanding you conform to their belief or be ostracized as there are many instances of this happening. Just because you choose to live a certain way does not mean others need to agree with you. Focus on your own life, worry about your own problems and use what time you have to enjoy life. Simple
youjustcomplain wrote: Nov 18th, 2021, 9:03 am Sorry, can you elaborate? what beliefs do the LGBTQ community share?
Keep in mind, the LGBTQ community consists of everyone who identifies as being LGBTQ. There is no pope. No reference text such as a bible telling them what to believe. No weekly gatherings with a leader. They aren't a flock. They don't share a common belief system.
What they do have is a common problem; Unacceptance in society as a whole, and that is typically more clear/obvious in right wing, conservative, religious regions.
Let me ask you this if I was to attend an LGBTQ event and decided to share my own belief of sexual orientation, would I be welcomed? Chances are I would be run out of the place by an angry mob for not sharing their beliefs.

Some may not agree with that lifestyle and that's perfectly fine. Just because someone doesn't agree with your sexual preference does not mean they don't accept you as a person. People, who base their judgement of a person on this matter rather than their character are generally :cuss: people anyway so why care what they think?

Your sexual orientation is a personal matter and doesn't need to be flaunted all over the place. Keep private matters to you and your circle because no matter what opinion is forced upon society some will agree, some won't and some don't really give a :cuss: If you can't handle opposing views then don't put yourself out there and then play victim if some disagree.

At the end of the day, the rest of society doesn't really matter. Surround yourself with those you love and stop worrying about what everyone else thinks.
Sparki55
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Re: Lake Country Church: Not gay accepting?

Post by Sparki55 »

barianqueen wrote: Nov 18th, 2021, 3:52 pm In what kind of twisted world does You Will Be Loved translate to:

We vehemently disagree with your existence as a homosexual woman and want you to undergo reparation therapy to change your sexual proclivities.

Are members of varying races, occupations, and genders being told to undero reparation therapy or only teh gays?
Thought experiment time!

Lake Country Vegan Club

There is a meat-eater looking to join a vegan club in Kelowna. He finds a vegan club that says "meat-eaters welcome". When he reaches out they say he will be accepted into the club. When he shows up a fellow vegan hands him a pamphlet with animals being sent to a slaughterhouse and a bunch of information on why eating meat is a terrible thing to do. They vehemently disagree with his existence as a meat-eater and want him to undergo training to change his diet. Then the meat-eater contacts the news and complains he was not accepted into the group, they tried to convert him!

He agreed that animals should be treated better and wanted to be part of a group that fights for it, but didn't want to follow their beliefs exactly. He feels excluded and that the club shouldn't attack his personal diet choice.
TheLiteralKingofEngland
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Re: Lake Country Church: Not gay accepting?

Post by TheLiteralKingofEngland »

Sparki55 wrote: Nov 18th, 2021, 4:37 pm He feels excluded and that the club shouldn't attack his personal diet choice.
If people who apparently don't think homosexuality is a choice could stop using the word 'choice' in analogies it'd be appreciated.

Eating meat vs being a vegetarian actually IS a choice and therefore is a laughably terrible analogy to a homosexual being told to undergo therapy that has verifiably led to suicides.

This downplaying of homosexuals being discriminated against is very sad but typical of Kelowna. I can guarantee that if a white heterosexual person were lied to by a church people would be up in arms. But it was a gay person, so who cares.
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Sparki55
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Re: Lake Country Church: Not gay accepting?

Post by Sparki55 »

TheLiteralKingofEngland wrote: Nov 18th, 2021, 4:44 pm If people who apparently don't think homosexuality is a choice could stop using the word 'choice' in analogies it'd be appreciated.
For the 4th time: being gay isn't a choice.

This doesn't mean the church needs to agree with the above.

Why bother to join an ignorant place that isn't going to accept you for who you are. Move on, plenty of other groups to be apart of.
TheLiteralKingofEngland
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Re: Lake Country Church: Not gay accepting?

Post by TheLiteralKingofEngland »

Sparki55 wrote: Nov 18th, 2021, 4:53 pm
TheLiteralKingofEngland wrote: Nov 18th, 2021, 4:44 pm If people who apparently don't think homosexuality is a choice could stop using the word 'choice' in analogies it'd be appreciated.
For the 4th time: being gay isn't a choice.

This doesn't mean the church needs to agree with the above.

Why bother to join an ignorant place that isn't going to accept you for who you are. Move on, plenty of other groups to be apart of.
Then why keep typing analogies where a choice is clearly involved? How exactly is choosing to be a vegan vs a meat-eater comparable to homosexuality? It just doesn't make any sense....

And has been stated for pages she DID NOT want to join an ignorant place. That was the whole point of her question before joining.....It's like people are reading a completely different story or something.
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Sparki55
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Re: Lake Country Church: Not gay accepting?

Post by Sparki55 »

TheLiteralKingofEngland wrote: Nov 18th, 2021, 4:56 pm And has been stated for pages she DID NOT want to join an ignorant place. That was the whole point of her question before joining.....It's like people are reading a completely different story or something.
All they promised to do was accept her. She didn't like that material was given to her to follow a religious belief, a religion she DECIDED to join herself.

She thought it would be a good fit, it wasn't, move on.

Remember when the LGBTQ group shamed JK Rowling? She sided with a researcher in regards to transgender, yet many of her books portray gay characters.

So you're either 100% with the LGBTQ community or not.

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