Reform/Progressive Conservative crack forms

[hobbyguy]

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politic ... r-of-tory/

"Not entirely ousted: Senator critical of O’Toole remains member of Tory Senate caucus"

Denise Batters remains a member of the Senate Conservative caucus, even though Erin O’Toole ousted the Saskatchewan senator from the national Conservative caucus earlier this week for challenging his leadership of the party.

On Thursday, Karine Leroux, a spokesperson for Don Plett, the leader of the opposition in the Senate, confirmed that Ms. Batters is a current member of the Senate Conservative caucus. Ms. Leroux said she could not elaborate, because doing so would “encroach on caucus confidentiality.”


Uh oh. Looks like the Conservative senate is lukewarm on wee Erin.

Not that it matters to Denise Batters, she will plow ahead anyway as O'Toole can't touch her. I may not align with Denise Batters ideologically, but you have to admire her willingness to stand up to Fidel O'Toole.

[Catri]

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politic ... r-of-tory/

"Not entirely ousted: Senator critical of O’Toole remains member of Tory Senate caucus"

Denise Batters remains a member of the Senate Conservative caucus, even though Erin O’Toole ousted the Saskatchewan senator from the national Conservative caucus earlier this week for challenging his leadership of the party.

On Thursday, Karine Leroux, a spokesperson for Don Plett, the leader of the opposition in the Senate, confirmed that Ms. Batters is a current member of the Senate Conservative caucus. Ms. Leroux said she could not elaborate, because doing so would “encroach on caucus confidentiality.”


Uh oh. Looks like the Conservative senate is lukewarm on wee Erin.

Not that it matters to Denise Batters, she will plow ahead anyway as O'Toole can't touch her. I may not align with Denise Batters ideologically, but you have to admire her willingness to stand up to Fidel O'Toole.

Not surprising, the entire Tory senate caucus was appointed by Harper.

[Catri]

This should help widen the crack and force the loonie People who want to mess with people's private lives to get up and vote and show their support for this archaic practice. Or not. I just wonder how our local Okanagan Tracy will vote.

https://www.castanet.net/news/Canada/35 ... on-therapy

It will be interesting to see how the MPs that voted against the last bill, ostensibly for it's imperfect wording, vote on this bill. Will MPs like Tracy Gray find another lame-o excuse to cover their homophobia or will they fly their bigot flags high this time, given that their constituents re-elected them in spite of, or because of it? Or, and honestly I hope this is the way it goes, she and her friends vote to outlaw the barbaric cultural practice that is conversion therapy and there will be nothing to mock...but I'm not optimistic.

[hobbyguy]

This should help widen the crack and force the loonie People who want to mess with people's private lives to get up and vote and show their support for this archaic practice. Or not. I just wonder how our local Okanagan Tracy will vote.

https://www.castanet.net/news/Canada/35 ... on-therapy

It will be interesting to see how the MPs that voted against the last bill, ostensibly for it's imperfect wording, vote on this bill. Will MPs like Tracy Gray find another lame-o excuse to cover their homophobia or will they fly their bigot flags high this time, given that their constituents re-elected them in spite of, or because of it? Or, and honestly I hope this is the way it goes, she and her friends vote to outlaw the barbaric cultural practice that is conversion therapy and there will be nothing to mock...but I'm not optimistic.

In terms of our local do nothing MP, it will likely depend on whether or not Fidel O'Toole allows a "vote of conscience". IF O'Toole says he wants a vote for it, then I would expect our local do nothing to knuckle under and vote the way Fidel wants her to. Maybe not Gladu, Stubbs, Wagantall and that group as they have nothing to lose - they already have their gold plated pensions locked in, and don't give a darn, but our local do nothing? Yup, whichever way the wind blows through whatever is left of O'Toole's hair.

O'Toole has to be vewwy vewwy careful though. If he pushes Wagantall or Stubbs too far, I have the sense they will put on a performance that will make JWR look like a friendly purring little kitten. Especially with Batters to back them up.

[The Green Barbarian]

It will be interesting to see how the MPs that voted against the last bill, ostensibly for it's imperfect wording, vote on this bill. Will MPs like Tracy Gray find another lame-o excuse to cover their homophobia

Tracy Gray isn't a Liberal, so why would she have to worry about homophobia? You really need to get more informed on which parties are the true homophobes. The CPC is doing a fantastic job fighting the homophobic Liberals. Great job Tracy!!

[hobbyguy]

It will be interesting to see how the MPs that voted against the last bill, ostensibly for it's imperfect wording, vote on this bill. Will MPs like Tracy Gray find another lame-o excuse to cover their homophobia

Tracy Gray isn't a Liberal, so why would she have to worry about homophobia? You really need to get more informed on which parties are the true homophobes. The CPC is doing a fantastic job fighting the homophobic Liberals. Great job Tracy!!

As usual, the CPC answer is "but the other guys", deny, wiggle squirm.

Face it. Tracy Gray does nothing, accomplishes nothing, except gather the time to qualify for a gold plated pension. She voted against women's rights, seniors rights, and LGBTQ rights. If you ain't a wealthy WASP, Tracy seems to think you don't qualify as a human being.

That is one of the many problems with the CPC blue outhouse.

The CPC have such a collection of nonsensical positions and outlooks that the party can not present anything cohesive, logical and useful for Canadians to vote for. In many cases the CPC positions are incompatible with each other. You can't be for "human rights" and then attack the rights of women, seniors, and LGBTQ folks. You can't be for fiscal responsibility and be anti-tax warriors. You can't be for public safety and advocate for wide open gun laws. And so on.

The fact that the "other guys" don't get it right 100% of the time is never enough. Folks recognize back stabbing nonsense when they see it, and most don't like it. Focus on that attacking the other guy, and you come across as just being trolls. And this a problem for the CPC - it is constant, every time the weakling O'Toole opens his mouth, or Scheer, or ______ fill in the blanks, instead of laying out and advocating for a better way of doing something or approaching something, all the CPC does is attack the other guys.

Within the CPC are seeds of viable options, expressed by people like Michael Chong, but it gets lost in the cacophony of nonsense and discord of nut positions. So the end result is that 6 in 10 Canadians see the as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... d_nuts.jpg. At the moment, that certainly seems a correct assessment.

O'Toole ain't the guy to fix that. And whether the CPC writ large realizes it or not, there is no set of of positions they have presented consensus on. That may be inherent with the unholy alliance of advocacies that the CPC assembled, as many of them are narrowly focused on OCD advocacy of unpopular (and oftimes unacceptable) fringe positions.

O'Toole is a "I just wanna win" guy with no core vision (which is why he flip flops all the time). That is not going to build a consensus of positions within the CPC. It seems that every time O'Toole opens his mouth, he is caught between what the majority of everyday Canadians want, and one OCD advocacy fringe group within the CPC or another. O'Toole hasn't done the work to build consensus within the CPC, and has erred mightily in trying impose different positions than what the grassroots voted for. Now O'Toole, in desperation, is attempting thuggery. Ain't gonna work. It will fracture the party even more.

[bob vernon]

It will be interesting to see how the MPs that voted against the last bill, ostensibly for it's imperfect wording, vote on this bill. Will MPs like Tracy Gray find another lame-o excuse to cover their homophobia

Tracy Gray isn't a Liberal, so why would she have to worry about homophobia? You really need to get more informed on which parties are the true homophobes. The CPC is doing a fantastic job fighting the homophobic Liberals. Great job Tracy!!

Let's see who votes for and against this bill. We'll see which party has the most members who want to continue the barbaric practice of laying on of hands to drive out the demon of homosexuality. Normally, most Canadians don't notice how individual MPs vote on an issue, but on a socially divisive issue like conversion therapy (and it isn't therapy, it edges into torture in some fundamentalist cults) the roll call will get a lot of interest.

[Pappywinkle]

It will be interesting to see how the MPs that voted against the last bill, ostensibly for it's imperfect wording, vote on this bill. Will MPs like Tracy Gray find another lame-o excuse to cover their homophobia

Tracy Gray is absolutely a homophobe, just like many other evil and disgusting conservatives in favour of conversion therapy torture. The CPC truly is the party of homophobes and are doing a horrible job hiding their disgusting and regressive views - especially dumb conservatives who consider Gray’s homophobic voting in favour of conversion therapy torture as doing a great job.

It will be interesting to see which faction of the crumbling CPC the homophobe Tracy Gray will join when the CPC inevitably collapses.

[The Green Barbarian]

*removed*

[Catri]

It will be interesting to see how the MPs that voted against the last bill, ostensibly for it's imperfect wording, vote on this bill. Will MPs like Tracy Gray find another lame-o excuse to cover their homophobia

Tracy Gray isn't a Liberal, so why would she have to worry about homophobia? You really need to get more informed on which parties are the true homophobes. The CPC is doing a fantastic job fighting the homophobic Liberals. Great job Tracy!!

The Tories are rubber and Liberals are glue...rah rah CPC. Whatever.

There are some Conservatives who aren't as blinded by partisanship, that actually care what their MPs and their leader do and say, that's why this thread exists. It is genuinely interesting to watch the Harperites, the progressives and the blindly faithful CPC fanboys go through this process. That last group is particularly fascinating as that's who refuses to see Tracy Gray's so-con bigotry, but also supports the duplicitous O'Toole, in spite of his Liberal-lite policy positions. It makes me wonder if there's any conservative ideology there at all and whether they would end up throwing their support behind the erstwhile reformers or the old red Tories if and when that alliance finally breaks.

[PoplarSoul]

Tracy Gray isn't a Liberal, so why would she have to worry about homophobia? You really need to get more informed on which parties are the true homophobes. The CPC is doing a fantastic job fighting the homophobic Liberals. Great job Tracy!!

The Tories are rubber and Liberals are glue...rah rah CPC. Whatever.

There are some Conservatives who aren't as blinded by partisanship, that actually care what their MPs and their leader do and say, that's why this thread exists. It is genuinely interesting to watch the Harperites, the progressives and the blindly faithful CPC fanboys go through this process. That last group is particularly fascinating as that's who refuses to see Tracy Gray's so-con bigotry, but also supports the duplicitous O'Toole, in spite of his Liberal-lite policy positions. It makes me wonder if there's any conservative ideology there at all and whether they would end up throwing their support behind the erstwhile reformers or the old red Tories if and when that alliance finally breaks.

Well said.

[erinmore3775]

The true test of Mr O'Toole's leadership will occur during the next 48 hours of Parliament. If he has the true metal to be Prime Minister will be shown as his Opposition members take their places in Parliament. Federal and Ontario provincial mandates require that all those who participate in Otawa's public Parliament must be vaccinated.

https://health.gov.on.ca/en/pro/program ... nation.pdf

https://www.canada.ca/en/government/pub ... ments.html

Approximately 5 in 100,000 people medically qualify for a mandated vaccine exemption. Therefore 5 to 8 elected members of CPC Opposition possibly claiming a medical vaccine exemption would be suspect. It would also severely reduce the credibility of the Opposition if this number of Opposition seek legitimate exemptions. The simple solution, hybrid Parliament. However, Mr O'Toole has opposed this solution. Without this solution, Parliament stalls over procedural issues not related to government bills regulating our economy, social and fiscal policy, and COVID related issues.

Mr O'Toole has a choice, pander to a small minority of CPC supporters or recognize the greater needs of Canada and get on with the business of offering Canadians a dynamic and effective Opposition. Whatever his decision it is time for ERIN to GO! GO! GO!

[hobbyguy]

It is easy to fixate on the leader of a party, in part because who the party chooses for leader is a reflection of the party ethos.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politic ... se-theres/

"Usually, when there is a move afoot to eject a leader, their replacement is either leading the insurrection or waiting to see if it succeeds. Brian Mulroney manoeuvring to unseat Progressive Conservative leader Joe Clark in the 1980s; Paul Martin forcing Jean Chrétien out as Liberal prime minister two decades ago; Michael Ignatieff ready to replace Stéphane Dion as Liberal leader in 2008.

But no one is available to replace Mr. O’Toole. Finance critic Pierre Poilievre might or might not run if there is a leadership race, but he turned down an opportunity to run in 2020 because of family commitments. Those commitments remain. In any case, he is not behind the effort to bring down Mr. O’Toole.

Senior figures from the Stephen Harper years – former cabinet ministers John Baird and James Moore; former interim leader Rona Ambrose – don’t appear to want the job."

SNIP

"Not only is there no obvious person available to replace Mr. O’Toole, there is no obvious idea, either, no stream of political thought that Mr. O’Toole rejects but that could take the party to victory."

SNIP

"Mr. O’Toole is criticized for being weak and inauthentic – a political chameleon who changes his spots to suit his audience, a leader who can neither convince his caucus and party to follow him nor suppress the inevitable dissent. This criticism is fair."


Yup, a "leader" who rejects what his party had democratically decided on as policy is bound to be weak and inauthentic. You can't have a very public leadership campaign of "true blue" and then campaign as "Trudeau-lite" and be authentic - or trustworthy. Nor can you pretend to have a robust GHG reduction plan when your party votes to reject the idea that climate change is real.

Mr. Ibbitson seems to hold out the hope that Mr. O'Toole can grow as a leader, but that train has left the station. The voters have Mr. O'Toole's identity firmly established as a "political chameleon" - and that means untrustworthy. The party membership was never very happy with Mr. O'Toole - his approval ratings in Alberta trailed even Mr. Trudeau for a while and were well behind Mr. Singh.

The CPC may indeed be stuck with Mr. O'Toole for a while. (Just as the Liberals were stuck with the likes of Dion and Ignatieff). Hopefully someone, or some group within the CPC can begin the process of building a new party consensus for the challenges of this century - and then from that process a new, authentic, believable and trustworthy leader will emerge.

[erinmore3775]

For those who watched the CPAC Coverage of the election of the House of Commons Speaker. What was noticeable was the eight empty seats ( there could have been more but view was limited by camera angles) in the area occupied by the CPC Opposition members. It would appear that some CPC members could not enter the House for some reason or other.

Mr O'Toole during his welcoming message demonstrated leadership and a dedication to representing all Canadians. He was loudly supported by his members. Time will tell if that support lasts more than a day. Hopefully, the CPC can remain unified enough to provide a substantial and credible criticism.

Mr. Blanchet did insist that all members on the Parliament be fully vaccinated. This will be an interesting session since the battle lines seem to have been drawn. The Speech from themThrone tomorrow,
.

[The Green Barbarian]

Hello Reg,

Parliament has (finally) returned. It’s been months since elected Members have sat in the people’s House. And in that time, we’ve seen no shortage of crises and important work get ignored by the Trudeau Liberals.

From day one of my leadership, I committed to you, and all Canadians, that our team will be relentlessly focused on the job at hand – holding the Liberals accountable, getting our economy back on track, and healing the division in this country caused by the politics of Justin Trudeau.

Anything short of that focus is simply not acceptable to me.

We have a strong team of dedicated members of the Conservative caucus ready to take the fight to the Liberals on the issues that matter, and each one of us know our focus and attention needs to be on the everyday things that affect you and your family.

With the economy struggling, housing becoming more unaffordable, inflation at an 18 year high, supply chain disruptions, and a widespread natural disaster in British Columbia, I’m not going to be asking you for a donation today.

While the work we do as a party comes at significant financial cost, and as the year comes to a close after an expensive and unnecessary election called by Trudeau, you will hear from our team about what you can do to help us – today though, I just wanted to update you on the work our Conservative team is actually doing rather than the headlines you might read, pushed by those that would rather disrupt that work than let us focus on the work ahead.

What will you hear from us? You’ll hear Pierre Poilievre hold the Liberals accountable on the growing inflation leaving less money on your paycheque. You’ll hear Michelle Rempel outline the attacks on our natural resource jobs from an ideological Justin Trudeau. You’ll hear John Brassard staying busy just trying to keep up with the latest ethical failing from the Trudeau Liberals. And Raquel Dancho and Rob Moore will take charge on the growing crime problem under this government’s watch.

Plus so many other strong, passionate Conservative members holding the Liberals accountable whether it’s on censorship, national unity or the “Ottawa knows best approach” to everything they do.

And me? I’m not ever going to let Justin Trudeau off the hook for his disastrous economic management.

If he thinks he didn’t enjoy Question Period before, just wait until he has to face off against our team again.

That’s the important work we’re going to be doing. And while the Liberals and their friends will do everything they can to distract us from that, my message to them is simple – you won’t.

There is too much at stake. There are too many things going wrong in this country. Our entire Conservative team is focused on ensuring the Liberals no longer get a free ride.

The Liberals have divided this country. Conservatives will unite it.

Justin Trudeau has failed our economy. I will secure it again.

On behalf of our entire Conservative caucus, thank you for everything you do for our movement.

Sincerely,
Erin O’Toole
Leader of Canada’s Conservatives

What a great leader, doing such a fantastic job. Keep up the great work Erin!