Going Green

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GordonH
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Re: Going Green

Post by GordonH »

OKkayak wrote: Nov 21st, 2021, 5:51 pm Every form of energy production has some sort of negative effect on the environment. We need to focus on reduction of energy dependency and consumption until we can find a truly sustainable energy source.
As more and EV are purchased and plugged into the grid, it will be challenging to reduce energy consumption.
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OKkayak
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Re: Going Green

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GordonH wrote: Nov 21st, 2021, 6:01 pm
As more and EV are purchased and plugged into the grid, it will be challenging to reduce energy consumption.
Not necessarily, we just need to rethink our way of life. Build cities within cities - meaning building amenities/work/entertainment closer to home and get out of this mindset that everyone has to have a 3000sq/ft single dwelling home. Don't drive as much in personal vehicles, instead walk, bike and build/take public transportation. Obviously, its a lot easier said than done, and its a lot easier to do in larger cities but medium sized cities, like Kelowna really needs to start looking at this going forward.

Its not a new concept, its actually an old concept and in all honesty, the overall quality of life greatly improves.
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GordonH
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Re: Going Green

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OKkayak wrote: Nov 21st, 2021, 6:11 pm
GordonH wrote: Nov 21st, 2021, 6:01 pm
As more and EV are purchased and plugged into the grid, it will be challenging to reduce energy consumption.
Not necessarily, we just need to rethink our way of life. Build cities within cities - meaning building amenities/work/entertainment closer to home and get out of this mindset that everyone has to have a 3000sq/ft single dwelling home. Don't drive as much in personal vehicles, instead walk, bike and build/take public transportation. Obviously, its a lot easier said than done, and its a lot easier to do in larger cities but medium sized cities, like Kelowna really needs to start looking at this going forward.

Its not a new concept, its actually an old concept and in all honesty, the overall quality of life greatly improves.
Your right it’s not new concept, unfortunately vast majority of our cities have welcomed urban sprawl.
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OKkayak
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Re: Going Green

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GordonH wrote: Nov 21st, 2021, 6:27 pm
Your right it’s not new concept, unfortunately vast majority of our cities have welcomed urban sprawl.
And thats my point, we need to focus on reducing - reduce the the sprawl and yes, god forbid build up and not out.

Its not just our energy sources that are unsustainable, its our way of life.
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GordonH
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Re: Going Green

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OKkayak wrote: Nov 21st, 2021, 6:29 pm
GordonH wrote: Nov 21st, 2021, 6:27 pm
Your right it’s not new concept, unfortunately vast majority of our cities have welcomed urban sprawl.
And thats my point, we need to focus on reducing - reduce the the sprawl and yes, god forbid build up and not out.
Good luck with that... just watch morning news traffic sediment.
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Re: Going Green

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Boosted632 wrote: Nov 21st, 2021, 11:14 am
GordonH wrote: Nov 21st, 2021, 9:54 am

Nuclear power plants is in my opinion the best option.
Other than that pesky nuclear waste that hangs around for thousands of years
you need to research and learn about todays tech. and leave what the bleeding hearts of the PC, woke mob's try to promote.
Nuclear power is by far the most environmentally friendly source of energy on the planet.
And this idea of wind source energy, I guess we can contact the owners of the winds mills in AB and BC and ask how they are doing for us here. I'll get the area code for China, as they own the ones you spot here.
Emotion and confusion will keep us from resolving and moving forward on this issue.
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Re: Going Green

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OKkayak wrote: Nov 21st, 2021, 6:29 pm
GordonH wrote: Nov 21st, 2021, 6:27 pm
Your right it’s not new concept, unfortunately vast majority of our cities have welcomed urban sprawl.
And thats my point, we need to focus on reducing - reduce the the sprawl and yes, god forbid build up and not out.

Its not just our energy sources that are unsustainable, its our way of life.
There is no question that energy efficiency is part of the equation. Profligate use of energy is another part, and that is something that can be reduced, but is not at the core of the issue.

Wasted energy is part of the net solution, and if done right, BEVs and FCEVs can play a part in that. Our electrical grid system is under utilized about 60% of the time, and seriously underused about 30% of the time.

The economics of of electricity generation are tricky, and BEVs plus FCEVs can play a big part in improving those economics. The very existence of time of use pricing for electricity shows the potential. If, for example, you build a nuxlear power plant system, you need to account for peak demand. That means that the system has to be able to generate enough electricity to cover off the energy need spike of the daily routine (evenings) plus seasonal demand shifts (more in the cold depths of winter, more in the heat of summer), and plus the further demand spikes from weather events like heat domes and polar vortexes. It is no good building a system that blacks out when everyone is running their A/C full tilt in the midst of heat dome.

With BEVs, you could set it up so that home charging systems, as part of the code, must have "off peak timers" (i.e. they won't work between 4 pm and midnight). That would smooth the demand into periods of time - mostly overnight - where the system is underutilized. The same sort of thing could be done with hydrogen production for FCEVs. Hook the power plant up to a hydrogen generation system (electrolysis) generating hydrogen during off peak hours, and feather production up and down to balance potential output of the power plant with grid demand cycles - however, that would mean that the hydrogen production facility would at best break even - and that means it would have to be a government facility.

The problem with wind and solar type intermittent sources is that they can NOT scale or match output to the natural demand cycles. That means they essentially act as leeches on the system, NOT providing electricity when you need it (much of the time) and dumping surplus into the system when you do not need it. That destroys the economics of hydroelectric facilities, safe nuclear plants, natural gas plants et al. that DO have the capability of adjusting to peaks and valleys in demand by sucking up market share while NOT delivering what is actually needed. This is what happened in Australia, and as the bulk producers (coal, natural gas, hydroelectric) started getting driven out of business - blackouts ensued and prices have skyrocketed to triple what we pay or more. The worst part of that scenario is that only the top end of society, those that can both afford a single family home and a fancy solar plus battery system can deal with it. Renters, low income folks, condo dwellers, etc. get screwed over - so those who cam least afford it get stuck with huge cost increases while the wealthier dodge the high costs entirely.

It is unrealistic to thing that total energy consumption is going to change, it will simply get shifted around. Heat, light and getting to and from work are not things we can do without - and only the smugly wealthy can afford the combination of factors needed for reduction - and they won't because they don't need to. Yup, a wealthy person can afford to swap out windows for low e glass, add solar panels, a fancy Tesla battery to go with the two Teslas in the driveway. But what of the pensioner living in a poorly insulated 1960s home? Renters? Single parents? Condo dwellers? They all need 24/7 affordable energy - as do most of their employers...
The middle path - everything in moderation, and everything in its time and order.
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Re: Going Green

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^^^ I am leaning towards FC myself as a technology of choice. If a typical medium sized city has 50,000 homes and everyone has an EV, there would be 50,000 chargers plus all the additional chargers at airports, malls, hotels, apartment blocks and various businesses, etc. The total number could be 100,000 chargers. Such an explosion of hardware looks like a problem in the making to me. While if everyone has a 'less efficient' FC vehicle, you'd only be gradually replacing gas stations with Hydrogen stations, and hydrogen has many uses.

So if the world is doomed in the next year, we should at least expect the free market to select a particular technology to save us all. Yes I am facetious, lol.

There are some exciting FC vehicles coming for 2022. Of course, nothing I would afford at this time, lol. It appears as though FC vehicles are still a driving force with the promise of a longer-lasting better catalyst on the horizon.
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Re: Going Green

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In terms of transportation, we will likely see a mix of technologies plus transit improvements as the end result.

Mass transit can also help with housing affordability, so that's a key option.

I do think slowing things down a bit would help a lot. By hat I mean trains instead of planes, but viable trains, like they have in France. Unfortunately that's just not feasible in most of Canada - the distances are too great/challenging for the population.
The middle path - everything in moderation, and everything in its time and order.
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OKkayak
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Re: Going Green

Post by OKkayak »

GordonH wrote: Nov 21st, 2021, 6:32 pm
Good luck with that... just watch morning news traffic sediment.
Never said it was easy, would take decades - but thats why one has to start thinking today.

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