Canada needs a law like this.

hobbyguy
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Re: Canada needs a law like this.

Post by hobbyguy »

TylerM4 wrote: Nov 23rd, 2021, 8:30 am
seewood wrote: Nov 23rd, 2021, 7:23 am What sized breaker does a re-charge station use? 15A, 20 A at 110V or 15A at 220V

I suspect most if not all new house builds here are 200 amp service and a charge station would not be too much of an issue, however older houses, like ours, are on a 100 amp service. Granted we use gas for stove, hot water, dryer, furnace and gas fireplace so the heavy electrical draws are not there.
Not interested in a EV so a charge station is not on the horizon.
I was on the North Shore in Van recently, lots of Tesla's on the road. Rest seemed to be German ICE vehicles.

Regarding mandatory charge stations installed in single homes, I don't think it would be expensive. I wired in a welding outlet in my carport with about $100.00 in materials.
I'd like to see mandatory sprinklers in new house builds . Costs may well be recouped from lower insurance rates.
Ahahahha to the person that said 120V will charge overnight. For an average tesla, 120V charging will get you 2 miles of range per hour. Unless your daily commute is less than 30miles (50km) you won't be able to charge overnight.

Seewood - to answer your question, chargers come in different styles, sizes, and options depending on the size of the electrical circuit you have. 240V 30amp is generally seen as good, with 240V 50A prefered.
Although it is a guess, I would figure that for most single family home dwellers there is very little draw on their 100 Amp service overnight. Especially if they have natural gas heating/hot water - which is common with 100 Amp services. So if properly wired, can't see why a 30 Amp charger wouldn't be feasible for overnight charging. Gets tricky for two vehicles though....

The experience in Australia is that about 80% of charging is done at home. So for new builds, it will likely become code for charging station(s) to be installed - or at least wired for.

This article has some interesting perspectives on the transition. https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/202 ... /100627312

There may come a "tipping point" where gas stations start folding. That will change the transit equations for the average person as much or more than carbon taxes etc. Won't be a "bang" - but a slow petering out as demand drops and gas stations find it uneconomic. Part of what may happen is that with reduced demand, gas stations may have to up their margins to survive, and that could have a nasty effect on petroleum fuel prices. A cycle would ensue where higher prices mean consumer economics push more and more to EVs - either BEVs or FCEVs, and that would reduce demand/increase margin required for gasoline sales and quite possibly drive a "death spiral" for ICE vehicles.

So perhaps a "Kodak moment" as mentioned in the Australian article? I don't think as fast, but the economics of ICE vehicles are driven by volume - so as EVs gain market share, ICE vehicle prices will have to rise - another of those self feeding cycles. Combine rising ICE vehicle prices/dropping EV prices with fast rising gasoline prices - and the "end" point may be closer than I think.

In that context, it simply makes sense to at least add the wiring for EV chargers to new builds as code.
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fluffy
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Re: Canada needs a law like this.

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Even Steven wrote: Nov 23rd, 2021, 8:33 amThen people should be able to do it themselves if they truly need it instead of forcing everyone to have it whether or not they're using it but still paying for it.
This is probably going to be more of an issue in multi-unit developments where approaching it on a one-at-a-time as-needed basis would be impractical to the point of foolishness.
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Re: Canada needs a law like this.

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TylerM4 wrote: Nov 23rd, 2021, 8:30 amAhahahha to the person that said 120V will charge overnight. For an average tesla, 120V charging will get you 2 miles of range per hour. Unless your daily commute is less than 30miles (50km) you won't be able to charge overnight.
Charging times vary widely between different models, Teslas are among the hungrier choices when it comes to charging.

https://www.plugndrive.ca/guide-ev-charging/
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Re: Canada needs a law like this.

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fluffy wrote: Nov 23rd, 2021, 8:56 amThis is probably going to be more of an issue in multi-unit developments where approaching it on a one-at-a-time as-needed basis would be impractical to the point of foolishness.
And once again, this should be an individual choice to implement these, not a requirement.

And a charger for every single unit for a multi-unit development is a significant cost - so making it mandatory will indeed contribute to a higher cost of housing. So, don't complain about high condo prices in the future. You can't have bells and whistles AND cheap housing.
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Re: Canada needs a law like this.

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Even Steven wrote: Nov 23rd, 2021, 10:13 amAnd a charger for every single unit for a multi-unit development is a significant cost - so making it mandatory will indeed contribute to a higher cost of housing. So, don't complain about high condo prices in the future. You can't have bells and whistles AND cheap housing.
That's my point, individual chargers can be left up to the choice of the unit's owner, but the cost of wiring the parking areas to put an outlet at each stall when done on a piecemeal basis makes the whole exercise a whole lot more expensive. With the future of EVs looking the way it does, having wiring in place will be a positive selling point in my mind. For sure there will be resistance from senior residents who don't see the need for an EV in their future, but in the case of stratas that would be where the democratic process comes into play.
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Re: Canada needs a law like this.

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Almost every single house has capacity for electric car charging. You can charge your car all night long with just a 15A plug.
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Re: Canada needs a law like this.

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Even Steven wrote: Nov 23rd, 2021, 10:13 am
fluffy wrote: Nov 23rd, 2021, 8:56 amThis is probably going to be more of an issue in multi-unit developments where approaching it on a one-at-a-time as-needed basis would be impractical to the point of foolishness.
And once again, this should be an individual choice to implement these, not a requirement.

And a charger for every single unit for a multi-unit development is a significant cost - so making it mandatory will indeed contribute to a higher cost of housing. So, don't complain about high condo prices in the future. You can't have bells and whistles AND cheap housing.

I was at a brand new condo complex friends have just moved into. The wire between breaker box and future EV charger plug box was provided, and proffesionally installed behind the drywall in the garage. I didn't look to confirm there was a breaker installed, but there was no plug/adaptor to plug into a car (they don't own an EV). The cost at time of build would be 3 or 4 meters of wire and the extra 1/2 hour of install time. I'd call that a good investment! As do the proud owners.
I'll bet the cost to install same after the build would be 3 or 4 times higher (with an exposed wire). Unless you wanted to tear down the drywall and have it replaced, which would add significantly to the cost again.
Infrastructure costs money. Wise investers think ahead to future infrastructure requirements, and good building code policies anticipate the most probable future infrastructure requirements.
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Re: Canada needs a law like this.

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fluffy wrote: Nov 23rd, 2021, 9:12 am Charging times vary widely between different models, Teslas are among the hungrier choices when it comes to charging.

https://www.plugndrive.ca/guide-ev-charging/
That article is a little miss-leading. 8km/hour is only seen with really small/compact electric vehicles. Nissan Leaf for example.

Here's another fact to chew on: Electric F150 would take 3 full days to fully charge from empty using 120V. 4 days if it's the extended range model.

Long story short - 120V charging is only practical when driving a very small car and/or if you don't drive the vehicle far/frequently.
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Re: Canada needs a law like this.

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Well if you want to drive a "power hog" then you better budget for faster charging. Not much different than the cost of running a gas hog.
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Re: Canada needs a law like this.

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fluffy wrote: Nov 23rd, 2021, 7:00 pm Well if you want to drive a "power hog" then you better budget for faster charging. Not much different than the cost of running a gas hog.

It is much different. The cost for the additional infrastructure to support this would be borne by all residents of Canada, regardless of whether or not they would ever own a "power hog".

Why should the budget to build all new homes in Canada have to accommodate what one future resident might do?

This is precisely the waste of resources to serve alarmist ideological dogma around climate change that has driven up the cost of everything in Canada, including housing.
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Re: Canada needs a law like this.

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rustled wrote: Nov 24th, 2021, 7:11 am
fluffy wrote: Nov 23rd, 2021, 7:00 pm Well if you want to drive a "power hog" then you better budget for faster charging. Not much different than the cost of running a gas hog.

It is much different. The cost for the additional infrastructure to support this would be borne by all residents of Canada, regardless of whether or not they would ever own a "power hog".

Why should the budget to build all new homes in Canada have to accommodate what one future resident might do?

This is precisely the waste of resources to serve alarmist ideological dogma around climate change that has driven up the cost of everything in Canada, including housing.
It's the same as installing Cat 6 cables or other infrastructure to support futures changes. It's the cost of moving forward but some people would rather stay in the past and grumble.
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Re: Canada needs a law like this.

Post by Even Steven »

Well, in the future we are all going to be driving flying cars, but I don't want to pay for a helipad just yet. If you want to- go ahead. Just give people a choice.
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Re: Canada needs a law like this.

Post by Gone_Fishin »

I wonder if Justin Trudeau should ditch his CO2 spewing jets for his surfing holidays and fly in a plug-in plane instead?

He could charge it at the cottage. Only problem he might have is power fluctuations when he's locked in there playing video games or surfing porn.

Perhaps Trudeau's paid digital influencers on here can enquire and get back to us about his plans. :up:
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Re: Canada needs a law like this.

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Even Steven wrote: Nov 24th, 2021, 7:41 am Well, in the future we are all going to be driving flying cars, but I don't want to pay for a helipad just yet. If you want to- go ahead. Just give people a choice.
I have a friend who lives in a strata-titled townhouse complex. A few years ago, before she bought there, they had some leaking in the roof. They were advised to re-shingle the roof as the shingles were coming to the end of their projected lifespan but since that job would have added another $100/month to their strata fees for a few years many felt the expense was unwarranted and voted instead to spot-fix the leaks. The remaining shingles continued to deteriorate and by the time they decided to do something about it the underlying plywood needed replacement and many areas of insulation in the attic space had saturated with corresponding deterioration the ceiling drywall underneath. By the time the situation was resolved the owners were facing strata levies o to the tune of $650/month for the next ten years.

A lot of people will look to the short term in making these decisions, ignoring the possibility of having costs skyrocket down the road. The "Just give people a choice" strategy doesn't always work out for the best in the long term. It makes more sense to "rough in" the wiring when it's cheaper to do so, and leave the later choice to owners as to how sophisticated a system they want down the road, a decision that will depend on what sort of vehicle they have.
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Re: Canada needs a law like this.

Post by Even Steven »

fluffy wrote: Nov 24th, 2021, 8:21 am A lot of people will look to the short term in making these decisions, ignoring the possibility of having costs skyrocket down the road. The "Just give people a choice" strategy doesn't always work out for the best in the long term. It makes more sense to "rough in" the wiring when it's cheaper to do so, and leave the later choice to owners as to how sophisticated a system they want down the road, a decision that will depend on what sort of vehicle they have.
I'm sure your sensationalized example makes sense to you, but it doesn't work like this with electrical equipment. The chargers can be added to any building down the road if people want them.

Thank you for bringing up such unrealistic scenario given lack of viable arguments though.

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