Doctrine from the Book of Mormon

[Baba O'Riley]

...CK and Soulra... seem to have the exact opinions you can find on any religious-hate website.

So what if they do? People are allowed to be anti-religion in a discussion forum.

The religious posters seem far more well-rounded as far as their concerns for other things that affect us on other posts that don't have to do with religion...

There we go with the "dumping non-believers in the same category" crap... I post in most forums on Castanet about a variety of subjects, including certain posts about the benefits of religion - as do many other 'non-believers' here.

I see negative or heated replies from both sides of the argument, but the conversations generally deteriorate when logical questions are asked and the religious can't answer.

It seems to be at this point we read about accusations of hatred, & belittling from ahteists.

I agree, Boda.

[zzontar]

...CK and Soulra... seem to have the exact opinions you can find on any religious-hate website.

So what if they do? People are allowed to be anti-religion in a discussion forum.

The religious posters seem far more well-rounded as far as their concerns for other things that affect us on other posts that don't have to do with religion...

There we go with the "dumping non-believers in the same category" crap... I post in most forums on Castanet about a variety of subjects, including certain posts about the benefits of religion - as do many other 'non-believers' here.

I see negative or heated replies from both sides of the argument, but the conversations generally deteriorate when logical questions are asked and the religious can't answer.

It seems to be at this point we read about accusations of hatred, & belittling from ahteists.

I agree, Boda.

I never said people weren't allowed to be anti-religious. It just makes for a boring discussion when I can find their exact thoughts and responses on these hate websites... it's like having a discussion with a website.

You don't post on here much Baba... maybe you should, I'd way rather hear from an atheist who's focus in life isn't just bashing religion. As far as dumping non-believers in the same category, my last line was "fortunately, I know I can't judge all by a few"... meaning I wouldn't roll them all into the same ball.

[Baba O'Riley]

You don't post on here much Baba... maybe you should, I'd way rather hear from an atheist who's focus in life isn't just bashing religion.

No, not anymore I don't and actually for similar reasons that many believers cite about the personal attacks, etc... Firstly, I'm not an atheist and have stated so several times, but no one ever seems to comprehend that! It's a bit similar to the religious folk here constantly defending themselves that they're not extremists with a deathwish on foreskins! I have many times said that I dislike what most religions stand for, but have no issue with individual spirituality at all. Yet whenever I have tried to give another 'side of the story' - a recent example is the 'out of body experience' thread - I feel just as shouted down as the believers claim they are, only I/we get accused of trying to undermine someone's beliefs... Ho hum, it all gets boring....

I believe some things that are 'supernatural' can be explained; I also believe that some cannot... I too would like to discuss both scenarios, but whenever I attempt to, the religious crowd take it as a personal attack. It's simply not meant that way; I am simply trying to explore all the possibilities....

If the forum is divided-up into 'Christian only', 'Atheist only' sections, I definitely won't be posting here anymore, as I don't fit into either category and it simply WON'T be a discussion forum... It'll be a place to post beliefs that are not up for question, discussion or correction. That's not a discussion forum, that's a blog.

[zzontar]

Sorry Baba, I forgot you aren't an atheist... see, it's 'cuz you don't post here enough... where is this "out of body thread?" I can't find it anywhere, but I DIG that kind of stuff... used to read a lot on astral travel... fascinating I thought, but whether it's out of body experiences, religion, ghosts, or aliens, if there's not solid proof sitting on the desk right now, it will unfortunately be open game for the closed minded to ridicule.

[Baba O'Riley]

Actually, I dunno if it was that one or another now...?! Maybe the 'deja-vu' chats...? Maybe I'm having a wonky deja-vu experience?! Ahhh, anyway, I'm fed-up with 'Religion' - guess it's all too personal really & I can't be bothered trying to discuss it on here anymore either - like many more before me!

ETA: Sorry, Big Ned, for disrupting your Book Of Mormon Doctrine thread...!

[CoffeeCanuck]

Yet whenever I have tried to give another 'side of the story' - a recent example is the 'out of body experience' thread - I feel just as shouted downAre you talking about my thread 'Life after death'?



If the forum is divided-up into 'Christian only', 'Atheist only' sections, I definitely won't be posting here anymore, as I don't fit into either category and it simply WON'T be a discussion forum... It'll be a place to post beliefs that are not up for question, discussion or correction. That's not a discussion forum, that's a blog.My idea was not to have it diveded up into only christian or atheist sections. The choices I gave definately had sub-forums for non-christian. For people simply wanting to talk about religion, that would fall under the 'general religious discussons.' I also was asking for other peoples input. I guess it doesnt matter now though as it presently wont fly. Who knows down the road though eh.

Ned, I think you need to post another piece of Morman doctrine to get your thread back on track...lol. My apologies once again.

~D

[cerealkiller]

Boda wrote:
I see negative or heated replies from both sides of the argument, but the conversations generally deteriorate when logical questions are asked and the religious can't answer.

It seems to be at this point we read about accusations of hatred, & belittling from ahteists.

Precisely!

A perfect example is this thread. I posted about the demise of Hinckley and look what happened again: nothing but personal crap.
Now soulra gets his opinion from hate sites like I do...one can only shake the head in disbelief.
The religion thread was nothing but a group of faithful supporting each other in their faith. Until some questions were asked that were inconvenient or outright blasphemy. The personal attacks started and continue to this day. I don't know how thick a scull has to be to defy any logic and rationale when debating. For the thousandth time: if you can't separate organized religion from personal faith we can't help you.
We posted from the OT and we spread hatred, we posted (actually quoted) from the NT, the BoM, religious web sites, non religious web sites, wikipedia...everything is spreading hatred. It's really wearing off a bit but it seems that is the only way to deal with tough questions and quotes if no answers are available.
So maybe lets look at some of the religious posters and how they turn a debate about religion into a personal hackfest, derail threads and repeat their insults over and over. Many faithful here do not want a discussion about religion, the good AND the bad, they want confirmation, assurance and sympathy. Sorry folks, I'd rather be honest than pretending, I'll keep discussing the negatives about organized religion and you keep doing what you have been doing all along: praise the good and ignore the bad!

[zzontar]

Cerealkiller, I'm so tired of you saying that you're the one getting insulted that I'll make you a deal, you tally up and quote the insults from myself, Nab, CC, and Ned, and I'll do the same with just your insults... if you've thrown more insults then you leave the religion post permanently, if we've hurled more insults then I'll leave this post permanently.

Ready to put your money where your mouth is?

[ferri]

so cerealkiller, is your biggest problem then with organized religion? i have been trying to catch up on everything in here and you guys just talk way too much. (i gotta get some duct tape! ) or is it with people having faith in something they can't prove? in a way i do understand not liking organized religion. i was never ever able to find a church that fit "just right" and some of them seemed like they were just out to fund raise. LOL but i do still believe there is a higher power (besides Jimmy Pattison) that helps me out when need it.

[cerealkiller]

so cerealkiller, is your biggest problem then with organized religion? i have been trying to catch up on everything in here and you guys just talk way too much. (i gotta get some duct tape! ) or is it with people having faith in something they can't prove? in a way i do understand not liking organized religion. i was never ever able to find a church that fit "just right" and some of them seemed like they were just out to fund raise. LOL but i do still believe there is a higher power (besides Jimmy Pattison) that helps me out when need it.

Hey good for you! I never disputed a higher power. Can be aliens or whatever. Not Jimmy Pattison!

[zzontar]

so cerealkiller, is your biggest problem then with organized religion? i have been trying to catch up on everything in here and you guys just talk way too much. (i gotta get some duct tape! ) or is it with people having faith in something they can't prove? in a way i do understand not liking organized religion. i was never ever able to find a church that fit "just right" and some of them seemed like they were just out to fund raise. LOL but i do still believe there is a higher power (besides Jimmy Pattison) that helps me out when need it.

Hey good for you! I never disputed a higher power. Can be aliens or whatever. Not Jimmy Pattison!

You've been bashing people that believe in God because there's no proof, and yet you say you believe there could be a higher power or aliens? Perhaps you should think about that one.

[cerealkiller]

Too bad you can't make any distinction!
Believing supernatural claims and worshipping an invisible entity is not the same as being open to the possibility of a higher power. Us Atheists said it a thousand times: we are open to anything with evidence. Are you?

[zzontar]

Too bad you can't make any distinction!
Believing supernatural claims and worshipping an invisible entity is not the same as being open to the possibility of a higher power. Us Atheists said it a thousand times: we are open to anything with evidence. Are you?

So how can you be open to a higher power or aliens when there's no evidence, if you're only open to anything with evidence?

[cerealkiller]

Too bad you can't make any distinction!
Believing supernatural claims and worshipping an invisible entity is not the same as being open to the possibility of a higher power. Us Atheists said it a thousand times: we are open to anything with evidence. Are you?

So how can you be open to a higher power or aliens when there's no evidence, if you're only open to anything with evidence?

What????
How do you come up with things like that? Where did the ONLY come from?????
I am 'open' to anything even without evidence! I don't 'believe' in anything without at least some evidence. Flying humanoids with wings? Sure, unlikely but possible. Any shred of scientific, independently verifiable evidence and I 'believe' it. Until the evidence shows up, I am sceptical and certainly won't worship anything or anybody based on ancient and improbable claims.

[zzontar]

Too bad you can't make any distinction!
Believing supernatural claims and worshipping an invisible entity is not the same as being open to the possibility of a higher power. Us Atheists said it a thousand times: we are open to anything with evidence. Are you?

So how can you be open to a higher power or aliens when there's no evidence, if you're only open to anything with evidence?

What????
How do you come up with things like that? Where did the ONLY come from?????
I am 'open' to anything even without evidence! I don't 'believe' in anything without at least some evidence. Flying humanoids with wings? Sure, unlikely but possible. Any shred of scientific, independently verifiable evidence and I 'believe' it. Until the evidence shows up, I am sceptical and certainly won't worship anything or anybody based on ancient and improbable claims.

I guess your version of being open to something is different than mine... if you're open to an idea you'll cut down everyone that believes that idea until you have proof. To me that's not being open to an idea, it's just saying you don't believe anything until you have proof.