Holocaust vs Mass child graves at residential schools

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nucksRnum1
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Re: Holocaust vs Mass child graves at residential schools

Post by nucksRnum1 »

TheLiteralKingofEngland wrote: Nov 7th, 2021, 11:24 pmThe kids endured malnutrition and extremely poor living conditions which substantially contributed to deaths. I don't know if murder is the right word, but intentional neglect? It's kind of like dumping a plant in some unhospitable environment and neglecting to provide it with food or water and then it obviously dies.
Its funny how in the middle east the honour behind protecting guests means they will sacrifice everything for their good health. Meanwhile, a church representing Jesus made sure the clergy had enough food and nutrition - and starved their "guests". Which one seems more uncivilized?
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Glacier
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Re: Holocaust vs Mass child graves at residential schools

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nucksRnum1 wrote: Nov 7th, 2021, 11:52 pm
Its funny how in the middle east the honour behind protecting guests means they will sacrifice everything for their good health. Meanwhile, a church representing Jesus made sure the clergy had enough food and nutrition - and starved their "guests". Which one seems more uncivilized?
How do you know this? What evidence of malnurishment do you have? Or are you just speculating? Who paid for meals? The government? The church? The school? Did they have doctors and nutritionists involved with meal planning or was it the same crap Jean Chretien had to eat in boarding school?
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daria
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Re: Holocaust vs Mass child graves at residential schools

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As horrible as the treatment of FN and Metis children in the residential "schools" was, the children who died at these schools were not sent into gas chambers nor were their bodies incinerated into ash that coated nearby towns. 1.5 million Jewish children died in the Holocaust by various means, including being shot alongside their entire families into actual mass graves.

The Catholic Church smuggled Nazis out of Europe to places like South America and while priests and nuns were helpful in hiding Jewish children in orphanages across Europe, that organization at the top was certainly anti-Semitic to its core.
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Re: Holocaust vs Mass child graves at residential schools

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Interesting piece.

[youtube]https://youtu.be/wErK3MHWXnI[/youtube]
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Ken7
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Re: Holocaust vs Mass child graves at residential schools

Post by Ken7 »

https://www.dorchesterreview.ca/blogs/n ... sH4EMiOo_o


I have posted this news release only for your reading. I'm not hear to debate the residential graves. I have to say I am one who has lived a life of evidence.

Without evidence, I have a difficult time accepting someone's accusations. Think about it for a moment, if your neighbor suggested you were a pedophile, should POLICE just lock you up?

The same goes for the accusations of mass graves. We have evidence that they are possibly graves. To date is there any evidence of human remains? I searched and have come up empty handed.

Is it in the best interest of Government to exhume a dozen graves?? Would the indiginous community want this dozen graves exhumed?

What is these are not grave sites??? What happens to all this money paid out to Indiginous peoples in compensation?
Last edited by Ken7 on Jan 17th, 2022, 8:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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sobrohusfat
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Re: Holocaust vs Mass child graves at residential schools

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Ken7 wrote: Jan 16th, 2022, 7:07 pm What happens to all this money paid out to Indiginous peoples in compensation?

Meh - better they get it before it also gets flushed abroad by Justeeny and his band of phony "Canadian" lunatics.
The adventure continues...

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youjustcomplain
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Re: Holocaust vs Mass child graves at residential schools

Post by youjustcomplain »

What has happened to first nations and metis people since Europeans arrived in, what we now call, Canada is pretty much exactly what you'd expect humans to do to one another. The strong have their way and the weak suffer. This is what happens everywhere, all the time. This is just the way humans treat one another. It's not genocide to steal FN children and put them in a boarding school to "teach the savage". It was awful, and before that, there were a lot of other awful things that FN endured too. Today, there are still things government could be doing better for FN. The mass grave uncovered in Kamloops was just one incident, but there is no reason to believe that it was an isolated incident. Also no reason to believe it hasn't happened on a smaller scale more recently. But it wasn't genocide. If the government and church wanted to eliminate FN people, they wouldn't have built schools and mistreated FN people. They would have just killed them all. There just isn't evidence that any government or religious group did that.

The level of apathy that I see on this topic around Kelowna is likely indicative of what we'd find almost anywhere in Canada; Most people say they care, but they really don't... not really. For most people, it was too long ago, and since we can't punish the people responsible, we can't really care. Society seems fixated on punishment and when we can't punish, we're over it.

I'm waiting for facts before I condemn any group. In the mean time, any group who spreads misinformation based on their belief, should be challenged. When someone tells you that the church murdered all those children, that person should need to offer evidence because, after all, murder is a legal term and comes with the burden of offering convincing evidence.

Since I'm ranting, I would also really like it if teachers would stop spreading their truth on the mass graves. I have kids to go to school and they have told me what they've learned. It's loaded with the teachers personal bias. Things like "It's racist to think that the kids in Kamloops weren't all murdered". I've challenged their teachers, and though they were reasonable people, they wouldn't budge on that stance. They shouldn't be teaching it unless it's true. They should stick to teaching the curriculum and, though I don't know what that is, I don't think teaching their opinion about current events is helpful in any way. As teachers, the little children think of these people as infallible and all knowing. Teach things we know to be true. Educate on current events, but without offering the conclusion that isn't yet known.
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Re: Holocaust vs Mass child graves at residential schools

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daria wrote: Nov 8th, 2021, 3:02 am ...the children who died at these schools were not sent into gas chambers ...
nucksRnum1 wrote: Nov 7th, 2021, 11:52 pm ... a church representing Jesus made sure the clergy had enough food and nutrition - and starved their "guests".
youjustcomplain wrote: Jan 25th, 2022, 7:57 am ...It's not genocide to steal FN children and put them in a boarding school to "teach the savage".
Most people say they care, but they really don't... not really.
https://rumble.com/vu1utg-freedom-convo ... n-now.html
So you wanna know what really happened? At 29:50 of the video ^^^, Amazing Polly - they talk about Ceaucescu
The Ceaucescus were accused of killing thousands of people.
It was genocide by starvation, lack of heating
but the most hideous crime was suppressing the soul of the nation.
None of the Catholic people at the residential schools really cared about these First Nations kids that were taken from their parents.
But only the hideous ones, at the top, knew what was happening, and their goal was to "break"
those kids. It was a hideous crime by hideous people....the ones at the top of the church. Just like Ceaucescu.

they're in hell now, so there is justice.

That's how all injustices happen - you have people who just don't care, (100% of the nuns and priests at the schools) and you have people at the top (like JT and CF) who are absolutely hideous.

It was a genocide. A small one, that no one really cares about. I know I don't. It didn't affect me


..
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alanjh595
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Re: Holocaust vs Mass child graves at residential schools

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That is a personal opinion, without evidence to support it.

Unless someone was there at the time, they have ONLY their personal supposition to go on.
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Ken7
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Re: Holocaust vs Mass child graves at residential schools

Post by Ken7 »

youjustcomplain wrote: Jan 25th, 2022, 7:57 am

I'm waiting for facts before I condemn any group. In the mean time, any group who spreads misinformation based on their belief, should be challenged. When someone tells you that the church murdered all those children, that person should need to offer evidence because, after all, murder is a legal term and comes with the burden of offering convincing evidence.

Since I'm ranting, I would also really like it if teachers would stop spreading their truth on the mass graves. I have kids to go to school and they have told me what they've learned. It's loaded with the teachers personal bias. Things like "It's racist to think that the kids in Kamloops weren't all murdered". I've challenged their teachers, and though they were reasonable people, they wouldn't budge on that stance. They shouldn't be teaching it unless it's true. They should stick to teaching the curriculum and, though I don't know what that is, I don't think teaching their opinion about current events is helpful in any way. As teachers, the little children think of these people as infallible and all knowing. Teach things we know to be true. Educate on current events, but without offering the conclusion that isn't yet known.

I agree on many levels with you. I am all about the facts, currently we do not know upon a reasonable doubt what if anyone was buried. Further why did they die? How old were they? Was this a community grave yard?

Will the Indiginous even go to that extent of uncovering the truth?

As for the teaching, I think it is pathetic to pass judgement at this stage of the investigation if one will do so. The teachers passing their personal feelings onto their students should be investigated and disciplined for their unacceptable behavior.

Will these teachers be able to retract their lectures two years from now if it takes that time to properly uncover the truth?
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Re: Holocaust vs Mass child graves at residential schools

Post by YzzzR1 »

Ken7 wrote: Feb 5th, 2022, 6:19 pm
I agree on many levels with you. I am all about the facts, currently we do not know upon a reasonable doubt what if anyone was buried. Further why did they die? How old were they? Was this a community grave yard?

Will the Indiginous even go to that extent of uncovering the truth?

As for the teaching, I think it is pathetic to pass judgement at this stage of the investigation if one will do so. The teachers passing their personal feelings onto their students should be investigated and disciplined for their unacceptable behavior.

Will these teachers be able to retract their lectures two years from now if it takes that time to properly uncover the truth?
The growing distrust of most governmental institutions and the apologist media will come to a head one day. I don't think it's going to be pretty.
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Re: Holocaust vs Mass child graves at residential schools

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I know someone who almost died from pneumonia when the window in her school broke, in winter, and a really dumb teacher cared so little, she forced the kids to sit by the broken window. But that's rare - there so many dead Indian kids - it has to have been a genocide.

Image
Penticton Indian Band Chief Greg Gabriel says that it’s time to criminally investigate the groups involved in the history of residential schools. (Monique Tamminga Western News)

https://www.pentictonwesternnews.com/ne ... scoveries/
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alanjh595
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Re: Holocaust vs Mass child graves at residential schools

Post by alanjh595 »

Pneumonia is not caused by sitting in the cold air.

Pneumonia can be caused by a wide variety of bacteria, viruses and fungi in the air we breathe. Identifying the cause of your pneumonia can be an important step in getting the proper treatment.

https://www.lung.org/lung-health-diseas ... -pneumonia
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ferri
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Re: Holocaust vs Mass child graves at residential schools

Post by ferri »

I don't believe anyone said that cold air caused it. Most people do know that sitting in cold air, in the winter for a prolonged period of time will weaken the immune system. So yeah, cold air won't cause it but it sure as heck doesn't help.

Anyway... :topic:

Holocaust vs Mass child graves at residential schools
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Re: Holocaust vs Mass child graves at residential schools

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I am interested as to why we would want to compare the Holocaust to Residential Schools. Both were acts of genocide. I don't think any evidence has been found of "mass graves" at residential schools. Children didn't die all at once. Some of the graves may have not been marked or the markers deteriorated in the years since.
Back in the day when I was researching the topic the old fashioned way by going through dusty achieves in a library, there was an article about the bodies of babies born to indigenous girls who were impregnated by priest being tossed into furnaces. So if that is true, no graves there. I read of the children dying of TB, the chicken pox, flu, other run-of-the mill childhood illnesses or accidents, misadventure while running away, abuse (murder) and suicide. The children were not provided appropriate medical care, according to a physician who wrote to the government of the day about it. For example, sick children were not isolated from healthy children to contain outbreaks. Their food was substandard.
Knowing what we know today about the effects of stress on our immune systems, no doubt many of them were made more vulnerable to illness than they may have been otherwise.
I also interviewed several indigenous people who had attended residential schools and heard about their experience. It was not the same for all of them. They were not all at the same school. It was not all bad for some because some of them figured out how to "survive" better than others did. I was told that sometimes a child would just disappear and they never knew what happened to that child.
What often isn't talked about is the deep shame that some of the survivors of residential schools feel because they did OK, while their counterparts did not. There was also a pecking order among the students in some schools (maybe all, I don't know) where the stronger picked on the weaker and took some of their food and so on. These were children in tough circumstances. There were also many acts of kindness of students toward one another. One student worked in the kitchen and he would hide extra food in his clothing and give it to his siblings. One girl had an older girl from another community take her under her wing. The older girl would pretend that the younger girl's wet bedsheets were hers so the nuns would beat and berate her instead of the younger girl. All of them missed being home and their parents, their community, their language and all things familiar.
It was a very humbling experience to be entrusted with their stories and in some cases, their tears.
Seems to me that genocide is genocide, regardless of how it is done.
It's possible to do all the right things and still get a bad result.

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