Joe Biden's War in Ukraine

[JLives]

The political establishment in the US worked very hard to get Biden elected, and during the election we saw some talk that war is more profitable for plenty of people pulling the strings than peace.

I recall some of this talk in particular around those behind The Lincoln Project, with the prediction that a "new" war would be more likely if they were successful in getting Biden elected.

And here we are. A "new" war. As predicted by some of those most cynical of The Lincoln Project's true motivations.

Yes I've read this several times. And responded. You are associating this war with Biden, his election and the Lincoln Project. But not in any way that makes sense. Make the connection for me here. Explain it like I'm an 8 year old. Real clear. How are these things related?

[rustled]

The political establishment in the US worked very hard to get Biden elected, and during the election we saw some talk that war is more profitable for plenty of people pulling the strings than peace.

I recall some of this talk in particular around those behind The Lincoln Project, with the prediction that a "new" war would be more likely if they were successful in getting Biden elected.

And here we are. A "new" war. As predicted by some of those most cynical of The Lincoln Project's true motivations.

Yes I've read this several times. And responded. You are associating this war with Biden, his election and the Lincoln Project. But not in any way that makes sense. Make the connection for me here. Explain it like I'm an 8 year old. Real clear. How are these things related?

You're not an eight-year-old. Responding with schoolyard silliness doesn't convince me I should stoop to treating you like one. I'm quite certain you are entirely capable of understanding what I wrote. Your choice to claim it doesn't make sense to you isn't my problem, and nor is your "confusion" the topic.

[JLives]

Yes I've read this several times. And responded. You are associating this war with Biden, his election and the Lincoln Project. But not in any way that makes sense. Make the connection for me here. Explain it like I'm an 8 year old. Real clear. How are these things related?

You're not an eight-year-old. Responding with schoolyard silliness doesn't convince me I should stoop to treating you like one. I'm quite certain you are entirely capable of understanding what I wrote. Your choice to claim it doesn't make sense to you isn't my problem, and nor is your "confusion" the topic.

What is your actual position on this topic? This is the part I'd really like to read your response on.

It is full on war in the Ukraine. Their President is in the streets with the people. The people are strong and holding their ground. How is this Biden's fault? This isn't about me or you. This is Putin's fault alone.

[rustled]

You're not an eight-year-old. Responding with schoolyard silliness doesn't convince me I should stoop to treating you like one. I'm quite certain you are entirely capable of understanding what I wrote. Your choice to claim it doesn't make sense to you isn't my problem, and nor is your "confusion" the topic.

What is your actual position on this topic? This is the part I'd really like to read your response on.

Given my lack of factual understanding about the conflict between Russia and Ukraine, I do not have an "actual position" specific to the current conflict - aside from "war is always a terrible scourge and we should never resort to it". I'm still working to understand it.

It is full on war in the Ukraine. Their President is in the streets with the people The people are strong and holding their ground. How is this Biden's fault? This isn't about me or you. This is Putin's fault alone.

Where did I write it's Biden's fault? You're putting words in my mouth again. Seems to me your responses to me in this thread have been efforts to force me to either agree with the conclusion you've already reached, or provide you with a similarly black-and-white position you can then argue about. I've no interest in bickering with you. My interest in this thread has been solely to point out how what some of the political establishment seemed to want as a preferred outcome of the last US election - a "new" war - has come to pass.

[JLives]

I've quoted you equating that it's Biden's fault for this war twice. See above. But it's bygones. So much has happened since. Doesn't matter. I hope we can move forward to more important events.

This is not Biden's war. This is Putin's war.

[rustled]

I've quoted you equating that it's Biden's fault for this war twice. See above.

I have never said it's Biden's fault. I have asked you more than once to stop putting those words in my mouth - please refrain from these ongoing efforts to "equate". Pointing out that some very powerful people who profit from war vastly preferred Biden over the incumbent in the last election is simply not equivalent to "it's Biden's fault".

Those using the term "butterfly effect" aren't claiming "it's the butterfly's fault", or even that it's "the fault of" the people who got a particular butterfly into a particular position where its wing-flapping could have the hoped-for effect.

But it's bygones. So much has happened since. Doesn't matter. I hope we can move forward to more important events.

This is not Biden's war. This is Putin's war.

I expect history will eventually show a series of both related and random factors that led to the current war. Attempting to fix blame on a single person or event really doesn't seem helpful to me at this point, when our observations may still be more useful than our conclusions.

[zoo]

You're not an eight-year-old. Responding with schoolyard silliness doesn't convince me I should stoop to treating you like one. I'm quite certain you are entirely capable of understanding what I wrote. Your choice to claim it doesn't make sense to you isn't my problem, and nor is your "confusion" the topic.

What is your actual position on this topic? This is the part I'd really like to read your response on.

It is full on war in the Ukraine. Their President is in the streets with the people. The people are strong and holding their ground. How is this Biden's fault? This isn't about me or you. This is Putin's fault alone.

You have read, hopefully, like the rest of us even just some of the relevant information people have posted here.
Your stance seems very clear, you are ignoring facts, past incidents, military land threats, passed broken promises as they have clearly been displayed for all of us to start understanding that their is a concern that continually gets pointed back towards the US and their constant need to expand their military existence onto other countries door steps.
Obviously no one should excuse these details just for the purpose of supporting their chosen political choice.
No one supports whats happening right now.
So how about learning where the issue's and concerns are and try to figure out exactly what is playing out here.
There is no super power in the world that would welcome, enjoy, have no problem with the other setting up closer and closer every opportunity to be on that countries doorstep. War is wrong, and countries that have and obviously have a need to always expand but hide behind the usual peace thing to do it should be addressed.
You should comment on how different this all was when it was Russia setting up shop in Cuba and how the USA was willing to start war because they deemed no other super power was allowed so close to its borders.
A lot of people do not believe any of this should even be happening and are looking for honesty and acts of a peaceful resolution. Some are believing Putin is wanting to take over the world.

[JLives]

I've quoted you equating that it's Biden's fault for this war twice. See above.

I have never said it's Biden's fault. I have asked you more than once to stop putting those words in my mouth - please refrain from these ongoing efforts to "equate". Pointing out that some very powerful people who profit from war vastly preferred Biden over the incumbent in the last election is simply not equivalent to "it's Biden's fault".

Those using the term "butterfly effect" aren't claiming "it's the butterfly's fault", or even that it's "the fault of" the people who got a particular butterfly into a particular position where its wing-flapping could have the hoped-for effect.

But it's bygones. So much has happened since. Doesn't matter. I hope we can move forward to more important events.

This is not Biden's war. This is Putin's war.

I expect history will eventually show a series of both related and random factors that led to the current war. Attempting to fix blame on a single person or event really doesn't seem helpful to me at this point, when our observations may still be more useful than our conclusions.

Quoting your own words is not putting them in your mouth. They're just things you said. You equated Biden's election and organizations who supported him to this war. And I quoted you saying "this war". Your words, not mine.

This is not Biden's War. It's Putin's war. There is no gray area here.

[captkirkcanada]

this is bidens war less than its trumps war. trump met with lil vlad behind closed doors. biden never did that. trump just said putin is his new hero , biden hasn't said that. what biden is doing is supporting Ukraine as much as possible.

[PoplarSoul]

You have read, hopefully, like the rest of us even just some of the relevant information people have posted here.
Your stance seems very clear, you are ignoring facts, past incidents, military land threats, passed broken promises as they have clearly been displayed for all of us to start understanding that their is a concern that continually gets pointed back towards the US and their constant need to expand their military existence onto other countries door steps.

Yes, the rest of us have read all the posts written on this thread and have concluded that it is Vladimir Putin's War in Ukraine and not Joe Biden's War in Ukraine.

[rustled]

I have never said it's Biden's fault. I have asked you more than once to stop putting those words in my mouth - please refrain from these ongoing efforts to "equate". Pointing out that some very powerful people who profit from war vastly preferred Biden over the incumbent in the last election is simply not equivalent to "it's Biden's fault".

Those using the term "butterfly effect" aren't claiming "it's the butterfly's fault", or even that it's "the fault of" the people who got a particular butterfly into a particular position where its wing-flapping could have the hoped-for effect.

I expect history will eventually show a series of both related and random factors that led to the current war. Attempting to fix blame on a single person or event really doesn't seem helpful to me at this point, when our observations may still be more useful than our conclusions.

Quoting your own words is not putting them in your mouth. They're just things you said. You equated Biden's election and organizations who supported him to this war. And I quoted you saying "this war". Your words, not mine.

JLives, you can't quote me saying what I didn't say - you've tried to equate, to suit your own perspective, and that IS putting words in my mouth. I have never once said "this war is Biden's fault" or "this is Biden's war" - despite your efforts to make it seem I have.

This is not Biden's War. It's Putin's war. There is no gray area here.

Since that's what you want to argue about, argue about it with someone who actually IS trying to argue "this is Biden's War"! Leave me out of that argument - I've yet to come to any such conclusion.

As I said before, I expect history will eventually show a series of both related and random factors that led to the current war - and it seems obvious to me that those who said powerful people who profit from war were actively promoting Biden's run for president had some insight, given how their predictions have played out.

And as I have said before, attempting to fix blame on a single person or event really doesn't seem helpful to me at this point, when our observations may still be more useful than our conclusions.

So you feel free to "do you", and argue as you wish with someone who HAS come to a conclusion that THIS war IS the fault of a single person. Since I've made no such conclusion, and probably never will, claiming that's what I've done so you can argue is nonsense and bickering for the sake of bickering.

[Queen K]

this is bidens war less than its trumps war. trump met with lil vlad behind closed doors. biden never did that. trump just said putin is his new hero , biden hasn't said that. what biden is doing is supporting Ukraine as much as possible.

Remember when Trump invited Putin to the White House for a sleepover? So Putin's men can get inside and check the place out for bugs and security for their government leader. They're personal pajama party.

Seriously Trump was naive.

[Jlabute]

Trump, Biden, and Obama have all been naive about Putin. As much as we would have liked to keep our eastern neighbour calm, it was never in the books.

[JLives]

*removed*

[rustled]

JLives, you can't quote me saying what I didn't say - you've tried to equate, to suit your own perspective, and that IS putting words in my mouth. I have never once said "this war is Biden's fault" or "this is Biden's war" - despite your efforts to make it seem I have.

Since that's what you want to argue about, argue about it with someone who actually IS trying to argue "this is Biden's War"! Leave me out of that argument - I've yet to come to any such conclusion.

As I said before, I expect history will eventually show a series of both related and random factors that led to the current war - and it seems obvious to me that those who said powerful people who profit from war were actively promoting Biden's run for president had some insight, given how their predictions have played out.

And as I have said before, attempting to fix blame on a single person or event really doesn't seem helpful to me at this point, when our observations may still be more useful than our conclusions.

So you feel free to "do you", and argue as you wish with someone who HAS come to a conclusion that THIS war IS the fault of a single person. Since I've made no such conclusion, and probably never will, claiming that's what I've done so you can argue is nonsense and bickering for the sake of bickering.

Silly games Rustled. I quoted what you wrote. Own your own words or if that's not what you meant then clarify. Easy peasy.

I own my words, and I own what I posted. I refuse to own, nor am I in any way responsible for, your snarky efforts to rewrite my posts to say what they do not say, nor am I responsible for your ongoing expectation that they must mean something other than what I actually said. I've clarified, you continue to agitate.

While you're of course free to argue with someone who HAS taken the position you're arguing against, trying to drag me into your argument about which of two people (!) is solely at fault is simply more pointless bickering.

Again: I expect history will, eventually, show a series of both related and random factors and events and choices choices and actions set the course for to the current war.

It now seems rather obvious - to me - that those who were saying powerful people who profit from war were actively promoting Biden's run for president may have had some insight, given how their predictions have played out.