Creation Theory

[Nebula]

So I guess we do agree.

[nolanrh]

And my point is that you are requiring others to have a certain type of evidence but you clearly do not require the same of yourself.

It boils down to belief, I guess.

Maybe you should go back and re-read what I wrote. I was making that point to Nolan. I have no expectation of others having to provide a higher level of proof than I do.

I was trying to make him realize that his beliefs were based on no more evidence than my own. Now you come back and try to tell me I am doing the same thing????

You are trying to tell me there is at least as much evidence supporting evolution guided by a creator as there is for the scientific Theory of Evolution?

[bdbnkr]

You are trying to tell me there is at least as much evidence supporting evolution guided by a creator as there is for the scientific Theory of Evolution?

That is exactly what I am trying to tell you. I will be the first to admit that there is only circumstancial evidence of a creator. Please show some substantive evidence of Evolution... i.e. something that demonstrates that all forms of life developed from a single source, that one species can be shown to have developed into another, etc...

[Big ned]

I do believe that God created man in his own image. I don't believe he developed from another species. I believe man is the literal spirit offspring of God and as such could not have evolved from another species.

I do have a belief (as stated before) that evolution within a species happens and is well documented.

[bdbnkr]

I do believe that God created man in his own image. I don't believe he developed from another species. I believe man is the literal spirit offspring of God and as such could not have evolved from another species.

I do have a belief (as stated before) that evolution within a species happens and is well documented.

Ned appreciate your position and agree that man is created in God's image... however, I believe that this is a spiritual image. I find the idea that a being with the physical form of a "man" is living in a physical place called heaven.

As you can probably tell by my previous posts, I believe that our Creator exists out side of nature, time and space as it would be impossible for the Creator of our universe to be formed of the material of His own creation.

As to evolution. I won't call it science because in my mind there is insufficient evidence to prove it took place (it would be easier to rebuild the entire volume of War and Peace from 15 randomly selected pages than it is to prove evolution with the evidence that actually exists). I think that philosophy would be a much better term for it. I think it makes sense from a philosophical point of view and will add the caveat that it only makes sense if their is an intelligence behind it.

[Big ned]

I find the idea that a being with the physical form of a "man" is living in a physical place called heaven.

Sorry BD... You must have been typing too fast or something... the above sentence is incomplete. I do think I know where you are going with it though. It brings up a question though..If it is His spiritual image we are created in, does that mean we are going to become incomprehensible and fill the immensity of space when we pass away? I do agree that God is not created from the same matter as man is here on earth.

I think you mentioned that you were evangelical in one of your posts. You seem to have different beliefs than many evangelicals that I have spoken to in the past. Are you from a particular branch, or just kind of non denominational?

By the way, I must say it is nice to have someone to discuss actual religion with on the religion forum.

[bdbnkr]

I find the idea that a being with the physical form of a "man" is living in a physical place called heaven.

Sorry BD... You must have been typing too fast or something... the above sentence is incomplete. I do think I know where you are going with it though. It brings up a question though..If it is His spiritual image we are created in, does that mean we are going to become incomprehensible and fill the immensity of space when we pass away? I do agree that God is not created from the same matter as man is here on earth.

I think you mentioned that you were evangelical in one of your posts. You seem to have different beliefs than many evangelicals that I have spoken to in the past. Are you from a particular branch, or just kind of non denominational?

By the way, I must say it is nice to have someone to discuss actual religion with on the religion forum.

Sorry should have finished the sentence... I find the idea that a being with the physical form of a "man" is living in a physical place called heaven difficult to accept.

I am evangelical. Not fundlamentalist (no idea if I spelled that right).

I call my self evangelical because I believe in spreading the good news. Accepting Christ changed my life in an instant... and I want to share that with others.

However.... I do not believe the Bible is always about fact... it is always about truth. Is something that many Christians and non Christians struggle to come to rems with. Fact is quantifieable in term of the natural world. All facts are truth. Not all truths are grounded in fact. For example, I do not consider Genesis to be a factual account of God's creating of the heavens, earth and man. But I do accept the truth of God creating the heavens, earth and man. The story relates a truth without being a factual history.

As to denomination. I was initially baptized into the Anglican Church (as an adult). I like Anglican Doctorine (excluding some of the stuff the Canadian Anglican Church has been coming up with lately). I married a Baptist girl and have been attending baptist churches for the last number of years. I was rebaptized last summer (not an easy choice but decided that I needed the full bath instead of the sprinkle after much prayer and reading of scripture.)

[bdbnkr]

It brings up a question though..If it is His spiritual image we are created in, does that mean we are going to become incomprehensible and fill the immensity of space when we pass away? I do agree that God is not created from the same matter as man is here on earth.

I have no idea what the answer to that question is. All I know is that when my time here is done I will continue to have a relationship with God. I have no idea what that will look like... but it doesn't really matter to me as long as I have it.

Hell to me is being separated from God. I do not know if that means it is an actual place (unlikely) or if it just means eternal separtion from Him (again no idea what form that would take). Once again it does not matter much to me as I already know that allthough I am completely undeserving I will have that ongoing relationship with Him.

[Big ned]

Interesting. I also believe that hell is not a place very similar to what you described.

I am also not a word for word Bible story believer. Excellent doctrine, but not to be take word for word as literal.

I do differ slightly in the concept of God the Father. My belief is that He is in the form of a man, although not restricted by time and space etc. I believe the family unit is eternal and we existed as a family before we came to earth. God the Father is literally our Heavenly father (of our spirits). We are all brothers and sisters in the spiritual sense and will hopefully return to be with God again.

[bdbnkr]

I am curious.. if you are not a literalist whay do you choose to interperet the part of scripture that describes us as having God's image literally?

I understand you are LDS... and I do have some understanding of that faith (my father was raised LDS..) but am not sure I understand the basis for your interpretation of God the Father...

Please clarify...

[Big ned]

There are a couple of ways to explain the belief... Biblical or through revelation of latter day prophets.. Since you are not LDS, I would assume you would want a biblical interpretation.

The bible is full of scripture that speaks of God with human parts. but if you are not a bible literalist, that can be taken anyway it can be interpreted.

I guess Joseph Smith's first vision will have to do... He saw God the Father and Jesus Christ standing together as two separate and distinct personages in the form of men. Now I pray alot and continue to seek for truth... I've prayed about this discription and feel very comfortable, plus it makes sense. If we are God's children, would we not be literally in his image? Some things in the bible can be taken literally.

[bdbnkr]

Afraid that we will have to agree to disagree on this point... I can respect you opinion but am unable to agree with it.

[Big ned]

Wouldn't expect anything different. If you did agree, that would make you a Mormon...

Very refreshing to have an exchange of ideas without name calling and belittling..

thanks BD

[grizzley]

Ask yourself this: If you were god, would you have created a world of carnivores, where animals have had to die excruciating deaths, for eons, so others can live? Now if s/he's so omnipotent, I think s/he could have thought of something better. Either that, or s/he is a sadist.
And would you have created many religions, all claiming to be THE only true one, and set them against each other? Now if s/he is omnipotent, I think s/he could have thought of something better. Either that or s/he is a sadist.

[Mr. Personality]

If there is a God, that means nothing as to "it" creating religions. To say that "it" did (would have) is stupid.