New LDS Prophet

[Big ned]

For anyone interested, Thomas Monson has replaced Gordon B. Hinckley as the next prophet and president of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints. Here is an article about what kind of man he is.

http://www.ldsmag.com/churchupdate/080206monson.html

[CoffeeCanuck]

I'm curious Ned, how does your church choose it's leader?

~D

[Big ned]

Good question.

The church is organized with a prophet at the head, the first presidency (which includes the prophet as president and his two counselors) and a quorum of twelve apostles.

The prophet is the only person who holds and is authorized to exercise all of the priesthood keys to leadership in the church. The quorum of the 12 all hold keys to the priesthood leadership and unitedly are equal to the prophet. Upon the passing of the prophet, the first presidency is dissolved and the quorum of the twelve get together and through prayer, receive inspiration on who is to hold the office next. I think that in every case (except for perhaps once in the early days of the church) it has been the longest serving member of the quorum of the twelve that has assumed the office. There is no voting or pandering etc. it is done quitely and unless the quorum receives revelation to the contrary, it is already a foregone conclusion as to who the next prophet is.

The quorum of the twelve then confere all the priesthood keys on the new prophet through the laying on of hands.

[CoffeeCanuck]

I'm a tad puzzled Ned. You say that the quorum gather to pray so they may receive inspiration as to who will be the next Prophet, yet you say it's almost always the longest serving quorum member. Why pray for inspiration? Why not just appoint him?

I'm not being deliberatley obtuse, I have very little knowledge of the inner workings of the Morman faith and I'm simply trying to understand.

~D

[Big ned]

No, I don't consider obtuse at all. I appreciate respectfully asked questions.

I image the reason that it has always been the longest serving apostle is because the Lord would see to it that the person was in place that should be, since we believe it is His church. The reason for the confirmation is that we believe the church is led by revelation. The quorum of the twelve would be ignoring the blessing of inspiration that is available..

It works that way in our local congregations as well. there is a lay ministery... no paid clergy. The people who are called to serve are also done so by inspiration ie the quorum of the twelve call a stake president to serve over a geographical area for a period of about 6-9 years. this is done by the quorum praying for inspiration after having examined the membership and picking out a number of people they think would serve well. They then discuss these people, pick one and take that name to the Lord. sometimes they are right, sometimes the inspiration doesn't come and on occassion it ends up being someone that isn't even on their original list.

The Stake president is given the keys to preside over the geographical area and will call bishops and branch presidents using the same system of inspiration.

The priesthood operates the same way at all levels. So when the quorum of the twelve pray... they may receive inspiration to act differently, but it has no been the case in over 100 years. Hope that clears it up for you.

[CoffeeCanuck]

Ah, ok that clarifies things, thank you. When you speak of the Prophet, President being given the 'key's, what are you referring to?

This may not be the right thread to ask this (why I think sub-forums is a good thing ;) ), but I'm curious about something else. What is the Morman belief in Jesus. I've heard and read a few different views and would be interested in your viewpoint. As I'm sure you are aware of, I am a ba Christian, so I do understand our beliefs in Jesus differs. Also, how do you prefer to be called, Morman or a LDS? Does it matter?

~D

[Big ned]

Mormon is fine (note the spelling though). What is a ba Christian?

Our beliefs in Jesus Christ do differ some from Creedal Christianity. We believe the Godhead or Trinity is made up of three distinct personages who are one in purpose. Let me post from the LDS website on the matter.

http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?v ... &hideNav=1

The word Mormon is a nickname that the church is trying to stay away from on an official front because it takes away from the true name of the church which indicates that it is Jesus' church, not Mormon's.

More later about priesthood keys... don't have time right now.

[CoffeeCanuck]

Oops, so sorry for spelling Mormon wrong.

A 'ba' Christian is....born again.

I'll read those links when I have some time to devote to it so I can absorb it fully. I was under the impression that Mormons dont believe in the Trinity or Hell.

~D

[Big ned]

Oh duh on my part... BA... OK just didn't register.

No we don't believe in hell as a place of fire and brimstone where people go for eternity... State of mind and separation from God etc. combines to make hell... can be temporary until unrepented sins are paid for.

We don't believe in the trinity as voted on by the council of nicene and others. We do believe in God the Eternal Father and his Son Jesus Christ and in the Holy Ghost... who make up the Godhead.

[CoffeeCanuck]

Ok, so I read that link you provided. I'd much rather hear from you personally though on what you believe as an LDS man on the Trinity, Jesus and those 'keys'. I read somewhere that the LDS's believe Satan is the brother of Jesus. Is this fact or fiction?

~D

[Big ned]

We believe God the Father created all things spiritually including all of us Jesus, Satan etc. In such a manner, yes Jesus is a brother to all of us and all that were cast out of the preexistence for rebellion including Satan.

Priesthood keys... We believe the priesthood is given to worthy males by the laying on of hands by those who have authority. Priesthood keys are different than the priesthood. Those who preside ie the prophet, quorum of the twelve apostles, Patriarchs, Bishops, quorum presidents etc. are given keys to officiate in their callings. Again we have no paid clergy and so most of these callings and bestowal of priesthood keys are given for a period of time and then the person is released.

for example... a leader of a local congregation who holds the melchezidek priesthood may be called for 5 years or so to serve as a bishop. As such he is given the keys to be a common judge in Israel and to preside over the congregation.

My father works in the Cardston temple as a sealer.... He has the keys to the sealing power ie sealing a couple and families together for eternity..

As to the trinity...I have a little trouble with the nicene creed and it's description of the Trinity. Scriptures such as God made man in His image, be ye therefore perfect as your father in heaven is perfect, If ye have seen me, ye have seen the father etc. Lead me to believe that God is not incomprehensible and unknowable without body parts or passion. The Bible if full of the love that Jesus taught etc. My belief is that God is a perfected being who is omniscient and all powerful... He is the creator and the God of all things... Jesus Christ is literally his spirit son (as we all are) and His only begotten on the earth. He lived a perfect life and sacrificed himself for our sins (atonement). Both the father and the son have perfected bodies of flesh and bone and Jesus is our intermediary with the Father. the Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit and as a result is able to influence us and provide revelation from God.

The three are united in purpose and as such form one God, but are not physically one.

We believe the family unit here on earth is the eternal unit that existed before we came here (we were spirit children) and if we do the best we can here on earth, we can return to live with the father as an eternal family.

[CoffeeCanuck]

We believe God the Father created all things spiritually including all of us Jesus, Satan etc. In such a manner, yes Jesus is a brother to all of us and all that were cast out of the preexistence for rebellion including Satan.I too believe God created all of us. I also believe he created everything. I dont accept that Jesus is my brother, as that would in essence put him as my equal, which he cannot be. I'm curious now and maybe just not understanding your meaning. You say all, including Satan were cast out for rebellion. What do you mean exactly. Are you saying that all of us on earth were cast out of heaven along with Satan? If the LDS's dont believe in Hell, where do they think Satan resides? Sorry, I really dont mean to be obtuse, I just want to understand clearly. I believe that Satan was indeed cast out of Heaven, along with those who followed him in his 'rebellion', and now resides in Hell. Is it the steriotypical pit of fire and place of torment beneath us? I doubt it. My personal belief for now, is it is a separate planet, outside of the Kingdom of Heaven.

Priesthood keys... We believe the priesthood is given to worthy males by the laying on of hands by those who have authority. Priesthood keys are different than the priesthood. Those who preside ie the prophet, quorum of the twelve apostles, Patriarchs, Bishops, quorum presidents etc. are given keys to officiate in their callings. Again we have no paid clergy and so most of these callings and bestowal of priesthood keys are given for a period of time and then the person is released. I'm guessing these 'keys' are symbolic in nature?

for example... a leader of a local congregation who holds the melchezidek priesthood may be called for 5 years or so to serve as a bishop. As such he is given the keys to be a common judge in Israel and to preside over the congregation.

My father works in the Cardston temple as a sealer.... He has the keys to the sealing power ie sealing a couple and families together for eternity..I've heard of this 'sealing'. Can you speak more of it please.

As to the trinity...I have a little trouble with the nicene creed and it's description of the Trinity. Scriptures such as God made man in His image, be ye therefore perfect as your father in heaven is perfect, If ye have seen me, ye have seen the father etc. Lead me to believe that God is not incomprehensible and unknowable without body parts or passion. The Bible if full of the love that Jesus taught etc. My belief is that God is a perfected being who is omniscient and all powerful... He is the creator and the God of all things... Jesus Christ is literally his spirit son (as we all are) and His only begotten on the earth. He lived a perfect life and sacrificed himself for our sins (atonement). Both the father and the son have perfected bodies of flesh and bone and Jesus is our intermediary with the Father. the Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit and as a result is able to influence us and provide revelation from God.

The three are united in purpose and as such form one God, but are not physically one. The Trinity can be confusing, including for many Christians. I do believe in 'the 3 in 1'. Not to be disrespectful, my best analogy to my son yrs ago, is, imagine a stalk of celery. It is one whole piece. Now slice into it twice, leaving it whole at the end. Now you have 3 separate pieces, (Father, Son, & Holy Spirit), each piece (spirit) having 3 separate roles, but they are all still in essence one piece. I know, confusing...lol.

We believe the family unit here on earth is the eternal unit that existed before we came here (we were spirit children) and if we do the best we can here on earth, we can return to live with the father as an eternal family.I too believe we existed in our spirit body prior to comming to earth into a mortal body. Do I believe that the earthly family that I have now was one I had in heaven prior to comming to earth, no. How can that be, when so many children here on earth are conceived from adultrous unions, single parents, rape, incest, etc. When you speak of 'if we do the best we can here on earth, we can return to live with the father as an eternal family', what exactly are you speaking of? Are you speaking of one must do 'good works' to entre Heaven? What if one of your family members renounces the LDS ways?

Thanks for the info Ned. We may not agree on some things, however I do like to learn about other faiths beliefs and why they believe certain things.

~D

[zzontar]

One thing that confused me as a kid was learning that God was my father, but he only had one son, I had question marks hovering above my head for some time about that one... I wish they'd word it a different way.

[CoffeeCanuck]

One thing that confused me as a kid was learning that God was my father, but he only had one son, I had question marks hovering above my head for some time about that one... I wish they'd word it a different way.

Are those question marks still hanging around?

~D

[CoffeeCanuck]

I'm also thinking that I am waaaay off topic. Ned, you started this thread I'm assuming, to alert people to your new Prophet, and it's kind of turned into a 'lets discuss the LDS' faith and it's beliefs. If you want to keep it about discussing your new Prophet only, thats ok, just let me know. If not, maybe you might want to change the thread title? Just a suggestion from someone who would like to continue learning more about your faith.

~D