Hydrogen

[LovemyBolt]

You are still comparing infrastructure for golf carts and infrastructure for FCEV as the same. Since there is a 10 year, or more, difference the comparison is wrong.
I know that does not matter to you, being wrong, but it matters to everyone else.
When infrastructure has more time and money spent on hydrogen refuelling, then and only then can a comparison be made.
A new Bolt runs around $22k Cdn. My vehicle gets less mileage than your Jeep. I get about 7km per liter. Maybe 9 on the highway.
Although that may only be approximately 80000km worth of driving ($2/liter), I can drive to Alberta to visit relatives in 7 hours. Without having to stop. You can't. The FCEV can.
Also your fast chargers WILL reduce battery life. Something that I've known for decades, too fast of a charge and heat increases. Heat kills batteries. Basic physics.

Golf carts are charged using 120V. EV infrastructure equates to fast charging. I only do fast charging when free on the odd occasion or when traveling. The same power source can be used for household charging for an EV as for a golf cart. The golf cart doesn't do 240V. The EV can. At home. Or out in the community. The golf cart can't get there legally anyway.

EV's have a thing called battery temperature management. There's a coolant circuit to cool it when required. And also to heat it when required. I seem to think Leaf's don't. But I'm not sure.

I'm still not interested in paying that cost for hydrogen when electricity is everywhere and way cheaper in comparison. I don't care about the time comparison because hydrogen is not here and it's too expensive in comparison. EV fast charging infrastructure is here and somewhat plentiful. You can't refill hydrogen at home either regardless of the timeframe of availability.

I rarely drive 7 hours straight. That's well back in the day. One needs to eat and stretch and bio. It's dangerous distracted driving to eat while behind the wheel, moving.
To equate the range concept prevalent with EV's to my Jeep. 16.7 imperial gallons at 22mpg to kilometers = about 587km range. Google Maps tells me it's 606km and 7 hours from Kelowna to Calgary. I wouldn't quite make it.
My Geo Metro once got 64mpg. But easily almost all the time over 50. With an 8.8 gallon tank (imperial) I could get like 700-900 km range.

[BC Landlord]

The catch is, there is no free Hydrogen on this planet. It needs to be produced. And to produce it, it takes more energy than it gives.

[GordonH]

The catch is, there is no free Hydrogen on this planet. It needs to be produced. And to produce it, it takes more energy than it gives.

Everything cost money, there isn’t a trucker or farmer who’s going to opt for EV. With its short use time and long charge time.

[spooker]

Looks like it's not going so well yet ...

A Kelowna driver says his attempts to help the environment and move away from gasoline-powered vehicles have left him with an expensive decoration in his parking stall.

Ivan Hansen tells Castanet he purchased a hydrogen-fuelled Toyota Mirai online in early June and had it shipped to Kelowna with a full tank of fuel.

https://www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna/3 ... g-stations

Unfortunately it mirrors the frustrations people have had with EV charging infrastructure ...

[LovemyBolt]

Looks like it's not going so well yet ...

A Kelowna driver says his attempts to help the environment and move away from gasoline-powered vehicles have left him with an expensive decoration in his parking stall.

Ivan Hansen tells Castanet he purchased a hydrogen-fuelled Toyota Mirai online in early June and had it shipped to Kelowna with a full tank of fuel.

https://www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna/3 ... g-stations

Unfortunately it mirrors the frustrations people have had with EV fast charging infrastructure ...

There has been EV infrastructure since the widespread distribution of electricity. The frustrations come from the time needed for traveling anywhere. The infrastructure you refer to is for fast charging. Fixed it for you.
This guy took a gamble to be an early adopter on a new fuel banking on the station becoming available sooner than imagined. Oh well. Sometimes it sucks to be an early adopter.

[Jlabute]

As both technologies are improving, the end goal is to "save the planet". In their current form, neither EV or FC do this or make a significant difference in comparison to gas vehicles.

The near future ought to bring EVs that can charge in minutes with more capacity, and safety. The future of FC could be the same except a better catalyst than platinum will be found to make them cheaper, and breakthroughs in hydrogen production.

The reason we want vehicles to fuel quickly, is so you don't need 50,000 chargers in Kelowna scattered everywhere. One can settle for 20 fueling stations as it has always been.

Anyone who buys a Mirai without at least checking in to the state of the nearest fuel station, probably isn't too concerned about it. Considering there aren't many used Mirai around, I'm surprised to see so many for sale. They do not hold their value well.

This is what makes mandates silly. Forcing people to purchase a narrow range of vehicles that are according to CR, are lower quality with more problems, low range, low resale value, and require additional investment for charging. Neither are 'ready' yet for 100% adoption. Once EVs are half the price, twice the range, quick to fuel, then they will be adopted.

[LovemyBolt]

As both technologies are improving, the end goal is to "save the planet". In their current form, neither EV or FC do this or make a significant difference in comparison to gas vehicles.

The near future ought to bring EVs that can charge in minutes with more capacity, and safety. The future of FC could be the same except a better catalyst than platinum will be found to make them cheaper, and breakthroughs in hydrogen production.

The reason we want vehicles to fuel quickly, is so you don't need 50,000 chargers in Kelowna scattered everywhere. One can settle for 20 fueling stations as it has always been.

Anyone who buys a Mirai without at least checking in to the state of the nearest fuel station, probably isn't too concerned about it. Considering there aren't many used Mirai around, I'm surprised to see so many for sale. They do not hold their value well.

This is what makes mandates silly. Forcing people to purchase a narrow range of vehicles that are according to CR, are lower quality with more problems, low range, low resale value, and require additional investment for charging. Neither are 'ready' yet for 100% adoption. Once EVs are half the price, twice the range, quick to fuel, then they will be adopted.

I'm not interested in swapping one expensive fuel for another.
"scattered everywhere"? Gas stations aren't "scattered everywhere"?
We have 15 fast chargers with 7 on the way. Some car dealers have "fast" chargers. And of course 8 Tesla superchargers that we all can't use. I think we're doing sort of alright. (Edit: Could certainly be better.) Still the time factor. (Edit: how many individual gas pumps are in Kelowna? Not stations...pumps.)
Absolutely agree with your last sentence. Primarily cheaper. We can always charge at a single detached or townhouse home or a condo if available. Yes of course travel could be faster but you still need to stop for things like food and sleep. Just charge then. I still don't get why the time to charge is such a big deal to some when you gotta stop for things anyway.

[spooker]

Looks like it's not going so well yet ...



https://www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna/3 ... g-stations

Unfortunately it mirrors the frustrations people have had with EV fast charging infrastructure ...

There has been EV infrastructure since the widespread distribution of electricity. The frustrations come from the time needed for traveling anywhere. The infrastructure you refer to is for fast charging. Fixed it for you.
This guy took a gamble to be an early adopter on a new fuel banking on the station becoming available sooner than imagined. Oh well. Sometimes it sucks to be an early adopter.

I didn't mean to come across the way I think it might have been taken ... similar to so many other things that we could be doing to reduce our impact on the planet so much of our resources just go to the ICE infrastructure, not enabling EV charging, hydrogen filling, safe cycling, bus transit ... all of these are examples where people go "why do it if there is no demand?" and the answer is always the same, "build it and they will come" ...

[seewood]

I didn't mean to come across the way I think it might have been taken ... similar to so many other things that we could be doing to reduce our impact on the planet so much of our resources just go to the ICE infrastructure, not enabling EV charging, hydrogen filling, safe cycling, bus transit ... all of these are examples where people go "why do it if there is no demand?" and the answer is always the same, "build it and they will come" ...

However, like current gas stations, providers will expect to make a profit in supplying the above fuel choices.
Perhaps when EV recharging stations, H2 filling stations can earn a decent profit, we'll be seeing more of them.

[spooker]

I didn't mean to come across the way I think it might have been taken ... similar to so many other things that we could be doing to reduce our impact on the planet so much of our resources just go to the ICE infrastructure, not enabling EV charging, hydrogen filling, safe cycling, bus transit ... all of these are examples where people go "why do it if there is no demand?" and the answer is always the same, "build it and they will come" ...

However, like current gas stations, providers will expect to make a profit in supplying the above fuel choices.
Perhaps when EV recharging stations, H2 filling stations can earn a decent profit, we'll be seeing more of them.

Yep, let the almighty dollar rule them all ... pretty much what the original O&G companies figured out in the beginning, get the users addicted to your product and you can just print your own money ...

We can't be expected to do things because they might be the right thing to do, as in allow more people to have choices ...

[Bsuds]

How about using all those carbon taxes they are forcing on us to provide Hydrogen and EV stations.

[spooker]

How about using all those carbon taxes they are forcing on us to provide Hydrogen and EV stations.

You mean those carbon taxes that are refunded to us at the end of the year?

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/envi ... carbon-tax

[GordonH]

I’m full supporter of FC and have absolutely no interest in EV, I will wait for station/s to open.

https://energynow.ca/2022/04/suncor-get ... -fuel/?amp
https://biv.com/article/2022/06/new-fue ... ns-burnaby

[LovemyBolt]

I’m full supporter of FC and have absolutely no interest in EV, I will wait for station/s to open.

https://energynow.ca/2022/04/suncor-get ... -fuel/?amp
https://biv.com/article/2022/06/new-fue ... ns-burnaby

Enjoy paying all that money. Like currently about 3-4 times as much as at a fast charger. Electricity is everywhere. I like keeping money in my pocket.

[LovemyBolt]

I’m full supporter of FC and have absolutely no interest in EV, I will wait for station/s to open.

https://energynow.ca/2022/04/suncor-get ... -fuel/?amp
https://biv.com/article/2022/06/new-fue ... ns-burnaby

What brownouts? I like the EV because it's so cheap to run. I like FC because it's cool. But I don't wish to spend so much more money to run it.