Is God alive still...especially in today's society?

[bdbnkr]

It is possible that the worship attendance may have something to do with it, but worship/youth groups have also changed much since I was young (sorry to do the old fogey expression). Youth used to teach morals and expectations, etc. and now they go swimming and play lazer tag. It is no differant than sending teens to the Boys & Girls Club.

I have to say I disagree with you on this point. I am very involved with the middle school ministry at our church. We do use the activities you descibe above. We want the kids to have fun and we find these events really help encourage kids in families who do not attend church to become involved. Our middle school program has attendence between 50-120 kids on a week to week basis and thes extra activities only happen every few weeks.

The rest of the time our program lools more like this
15-20 min worship
30 min of games / activity
15-20 min sermon or message
30 min of small group time where we break up into smaller groups with 1 or 2 adult leaders having a discussion about the message with the kids.

Our busiest weeks are of course the "extra" activity weeks but we find that out of those extra attendees we almost always get a few more regulars who start to come on a weekly basis.

[bdbnkr]

I think the down turn in church attendence is more a symptom of changing family values than a cause of lower moral in society.

Since the end of WWII we have seen some huge changes in family dynamics in the 1st world. The parents of the boomers lived through some very hard times and truly understood what it was to go without. The boomers on the other hand... had a good work ethic but unlike their parents never faced society wide hardship, There was no famine. No major war. Gradually disposable income increased which fueled a consumer mentality. Things that were luxeries in the past became necessities. A strong middle class with good net worth and spending power emerged.

These boomers of course had children. Gen X (born 68-75 approx) & Gen Y (born 76 and after.) These kids were raised by parents that had the means to give their kids more of the extras in life. Credit became more available. More families had dual incomes to support the lifestyles they desired. Life became more and more about the extras instead of survival. People became more focused on the culture of "me". What you had became more and more of status symbol. The gen X and gen Y having being raised by parents who gave them alot wanted to continue to have a lot. They did not feel like waiting the 20-30 years it would take to obtain the wealth to buy what they wanted... so credit became a more and more commonly used tool. All of this continued to feed the "me" culture. As people became more focused on me divorce rates increased. More and more of these kids were being raised by one parent and witnessing the terrible financial and emotional battles of their parents divorces. Even in the families that stayed together both parents were working long hours in the race to keep up with the Jones. Less and less time was spent doing things as a family. Watching endless hours of TV were considered to be quality family time. Parents got their kids more stuff in order to keep the kids happy (and to keep up with Jones' kids). Less and less time was spent teaching and modeling how to give back to society. More time was spent modeling that the appearence of wealth is important. Even if you are telling your kids that materialism isn't important, if you are modeling that it is they are going to believe your actions not your words.

This culture of "me" has continued to point were it has infiltrated all aspects of our society. We need big houses. We need nice cars. We are entitled to have a job we love. Happiness is a right not something to pursue. As a result family is not as valued as it once was. Men are leaving their wives and vis versa because it is easier to divorce than it is to work out you problems. We are brought up to believe the successful means wealthy. As this occured the values of church became less and less meaningful to much of society. Why would you want to go and listen to a sermon telling you that loving your neighbor is more important than having a nicer SUV than him? Why would we want to volunteer to work with youth, the needy or the elderly when we can be out having a good time at our condo at the ski resort or on the golf course? Why would we want to serve Jesus/God when we can be having fun?

Do not get me wrong... there are still lots of folks doing good things... but it is defiantely less than there used to be. There are still families who have tons of fun together, but it is less common than in the past.

A drop in attendence at churches is just another symptom as society continues to increase the culture of "me"

That's my opinion. Or I could be completely out to lunch and it really is progress as so many of the non-religious folks have claimed in this string. Maybe it isn't because we are more selfish and is because we are smarter and better educated and no longer need to rely on God.....

[dudlee]

I watched a real estate show from the states and it featured a minister and his wife and 3 kids , that wanted to buy a house for the first time.Their credit score would only allow a house purchase of $125,000.Their score was that bad.Of course they wanted the house that was $150,000.Their broker told them that they needed to get their credit score up before they would have a chance to qualify.In other words pay their bills.So they did,then the broker told them they had to put a down payment of $5,000 to qualify.
So they went to their congregation for help.This is what pisses me off about religion. Going to the people for money that you need.I assume the minister earns a wage?
There are more than likely people in that church that could use financial aide and they would get a "Let's pray about this" and no money.

SOMETIMES I THINK THE WRONG WORD FOR PRAY AND IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN PREY

[bdbnkr]

I watched a real estate show from the states and it featured a minister and his wife and 3 kids , that wanted to buy a house for the first time.Their credit score would only allow a house purchase of $125,000.Their score was that bad.Of course they wanted the house that was $150,000.Their broker told them that they needed to get their credit score up before they would have a chance to qualify.In other words pay their bills.So they did,then the broker told them they had to put a down payment of $5,000 to qualify.
So they went to their congregation for help.This is what pisses me off about religion. Going to the people for money that you need.I assume the minister earns a wage?
There are more than likely people in that church that could use financial aide and they would get a "Let's pray about this" and no money.

SOMETIMES I THINK THE WRONG WORD FOR PRAY AND IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN PREY

The average minister has a very low salary. There are some exceptions at really big churches but that majority of people in ministry get paid very little. As to going to his church for help... that is what church is about. Helping each other and helping others. I can speak from personal experience that many chaurches help members of their congregation that have need. When I was in a bad car accident a number of years ago and was struggling to pay my bills, feed my family etc, due to a fight with my disability insurance provider, my church came to me and insisted that they help. I did not ask for it, or even want to admit that I needed it, but without the support they forced on my family we would have ended up in financial ruin. You should also note that he went to his congrgation and asked for help. He did not hide his motives. The members were free to say no.

The church does not "prey" on anyone. There have been individuals who in the past have taken advantage of people using religion as justification. This is the exception not the rule.

I can tell by your post that you have never been a part of a real church family. I hope that you experience it someday.

[Saxon]

There are more than likely people in that church that could use financial aide and they would get a "Let's pray about this" and no money.

And there are lots who receive financial help too..be it as a result of a collection or prayer.....to be a part of a church family is an amazing thing ...I dont think this pastor did wrong by asking his church family, not at all..... it was their choice to help .....they were not conned or scammed in any way, that would be wrong....... people have and sadly will continue to do wrong in the name of religion what we need to understand is that when someone does anything wrong from a church they as soon as they decide to do wrong are also deciding they are NOT going to follow what the bible says..

As to the origional question of this thread... YES God is still alive! very much so!..... whether you believe or not is irrelevant....God is very much alive

[bdbnkr]

As to the origional question of this thread... YES God is still alive! very much so!..... whether you believe or not is irrelevant....God is very much alive

Amen to that