Hydrogen

[GordonH]

I’m full supporter of FC and have absolutely no interest in EV, I will wait for station/s to open.

https://energynow.ca/2022/04/suncor-get ... -fuel/?amp
https://biv.com/article/2022/06/new-fue ... ns-burnaby

Enjoy paying all that money. Like currently about 3-4 times as much as at a fast charger. Electricity is everywhere. I like keeping money in my pocket.

$65 for 1,000 plus a full tank in minutes, no expensive battery to dispose of... this will be great for environment. Big pile of useless batteries

[GordonH]

I’m full supporter of FC and have absolutely no interest in EV, I will wait for station/s to open.

https://energynow.ca/2022/04/suncor-get ... -fuel/?amp
https://biv.com/article/2022/06/new-fue ... ns-burnaby

What brownouts? I like the EV because it's so cheap to run. I like FC because it's cool. But I don't wish to spend so much more money to run it.

Without Site C being online ASAP, brown outs are coming.

Wait to see those government taxes on your electric bills go up. The moment revenue fossil fuel starts to drop... taxes on electricity will start going upwards.

[LovemyBolt]

Enjoy paying all that money. Like currently about 3-4 times as much as at a fast charger. Electricity is everywhere. I like keeping money in my pocket.

$65 for 1,000 plus a full tank in minutes, no expensive battery to dispose of... this will be great for environment. Big pile of useless batteries

Yup. Range, time of fill. All very nice. I still like paying less. I'm retired. I got time. We don't know what will happen with batteries in the future. People are just speculating that it will be one "big pile of useless batteries". No one knows yet. My suspicion is that range will go down. Still usable. Just not as far. So if it's still usable then why would it be disposed? But still speculating...just the other direction.

Still more speculation. Lots of speculation.
Electricity would have to be $1.10 per kwh before I'd pay $65. That's a long way to go from $0.13. And EV's can be "filled up" at home. No special trip out to get filled. Do you suppose providers would pipe hydrogen to homes? I kinda doubt it.

[GordonH]

$65 for 1,000 plus a full tank in minutes, no expensive battery to dispose of... this will be great for environment. Big pile of useless batteries

Yup. Range, time of fill. All very nice. I still like paying less. I'm retired. I got time. We don't know what will happen with batteries in the future. People are just speculating that it will be one "big pile of useless batteries". No one knows yet. My suspicion is that range will go down. Still usable. Just not as far. So if it's still usable then why would it be disposed? But still speculating...just the other direction.

What’s currently happening with cellphone batteries, they are just tiny version of what’s in your EV.
Chances vast majority are currently being thrown in landfills.

[LovemyBolt]

Yup. Range, time of fill. All very nice. I still like paying less. I'm retired. I got time. We don't know what will happen with batteries in the future. People are just speculating that it will be one "big pile of useless batteries". No one knows yet. My suspicion is that range will go down. Still usable. Just not as far. So if it's still usable then why would it be disposed? But still speculating...just the other direction.

What’s currently happening with cellphone batteries, they are just tiny version of what’s in your EV.
Chances vast majority are currently being thrown in landfills.

It's all speculation. Using the word "chances" gives it away. There are battery recycling facilities currently in operation. And they will be taking in EV batteries, come the time, as they enter the stream.
And then there are current efforts going into making electricity storage from easy to source and easy to recycle.

[GordonH]

What’s currently happening with cellphone batteries, they are just tiny version of what’s in your EV.
Chances vast majority are currently being thrown in landfills.

It's all speculation. Using the word "chances" gives it away. There are battery recycling facilities currently in operation. And they will be taking in EV batteries, come the time, as they enter the stream.
And then there are current efforts going into making electricity storage from easy to source and easy to recycle.

I’m not at the landfill sifting though everyone’s garbage to see who is throwing cell batteries in the garbage. Now if they are all being collected, what are those collecting doing with batteries.
No body knows this answer, do they.

[LovemyBolt]

I’m not at the landfill sifting though everyone’s garbage to see who is throwing cell batteries in the garbage. Now if they are all being collected, what are those collecting doing with batteries.
No body knows this answer, do they.

Nobody is going to stick an EV battery on top of their curbside pick up bucket. All kinds of crap gets thrown out by people that can't be bothered to recycle what they can with some minimal effort.
I don't know the answer. Do you? So inventing scenarios is speculation.

Is it all just a feel good exercise that we all get by thinking we're doing the right thing by recycling? Only to find out afterwards that it's dumped anyway? I don't know. I recycle what I can with some minimal effort. What happens after that is above my pay grade. I certainly don't like paying the cash grab eco fees. I don't mind the deposit as that comes back. But the eco fees are a rip off. They're supposed to be making money on the recycling. Not making money on made up fees. But they are.

[Jlabute]

Everything is fine and dandy until one has to replace a $12000 battery not under warranty. This is when the vehicle gets thrown out because the battery is worth more than the vehicle. Eight years or 100,000Km comes quick. On a car, I might have to replace a timing belt. Hydrogen vehicles might need a new fuel cell after 10 years too.

[LovemyBolt]

Everything is fine and dandy until one has to replace a $12000 battery not under warranty. This is when the vehicle gets thrown out because the battery is worth more than the vehicle. Eight years or 100,000Km comes quick. On a car, I might have to replace a timing belt. Hydrogen vehicles might need a new fuel cell after 10 years too.

One doesn't have to replace a whole entire battery pack in one go. There are sub-parts all the way down to a pouch cell. A specific part can be identified and then that's all you need to replace.
I don't know about FC. I'll leave that to our friend GordonH.

[spooker]

Everything is fine and dandy until one has to replace a $12000 battery not under warranty. This is when the vehicle gets thrown out because the battery is worth more than the vehicle. Eight years or 100,000Km comes quick. On a car, I might have to replace a timing belt. Hydrogen vehicles might need a new fuel cell after 10 years too.

Yeah, my $10,000 invoice for fixing a design defect on my diesel truck doesn't even come close ... and this was the second fix for the same issue, thanks for warranty rules the first time it was fixed with OEM parts which contained the same defect ... let's keep the problems we have since we're scared of dealing with new problems ...

[77TA]

I see several teslas coming down the hill from the mission every morning on my way up. It will be interesting to see how that evolves over the next 5-10 years for sure. Your milage may vary. My pickup has been doing it for 8 yrs now with zero issues.

[Jlabute]

Everything is fine and dandy until one has to replace a $12000 battery not under warranty. This is when the vehicle gets thrown out because the battery is worth more than the vehicle. Eight years or 100,000Km comes quick. On a car, I might have to replace a timing belt. Hydrogen vehicles might need a new fuel cell after 10 years too.

Yeah, my $10,000 invoice for fixing a design defect on my diesel truck doesn't even come close ... and this was the second fix for the same issue, thanks for warranty rules the first time it was fixed with OEM parts which contained the same defect ... let's keep the problems we have since we're scared of dealing with new problems ...

Certainly your 'design defect' is an exception, especially having it done twice. It is not the rule that applies to 100% of all (EV) vehicles, and continues a second or third time if the vehicle is kept long enough. $10,000 is a hefty invoice. It is why I now personally avoid European vehicles. ($2000 to replace a fuel line pressure value is bad enough)

Seeing EVs are new, and the price of Lithium carbonate is skyrocketing, and EV sales are ramping up, the near foreseeable future will have expensive battery replacements. EV's could become the new disposable commodity. EV batteries can cost up to $20,000. People will have to get financing to replace their battery.

Ballard says a fuel cell needs a refurbishment at 25,000 hours, or approximately 8 years. Platinum doesn't last forever in a fuel cell.

Either BEV, or FC, one doesn't get something for nothing. Does the infinitesimally small benefit (if there is one) out-weight the frustration of use? I'm still in wait mode until EVs become exponentially improved.


The price of lithium is through the roof. This will translate in to higher battery costs, not lower as predicted. It will take a long time before enough lithium mines and nickel mines, and cobalt mines come online to help the demand. Perhaps the government will find a creative way to fund battery replacement at everyone's detriment.

[spooker]

Yeah, my $10,000 invoice for fixing a design defect on my diesel truck doesn't even come close ... and this was the second fix for the same issue, thanks for warranty rules the first time it was fixed with OEM parts which contained the same defect ... let's keep the problems we have since we're scared of dealing with new problems ...

Certainly your 'design defect' is an exception, especially having it done twice. It is not the rule that applies to 100% of all (EV) vehicles, and continues a second or third time if the vehicle is kept long enough. $10,000 is a hefty invoice. It is why I now personally avoid European vehicles. ($2000 to replace a fuel line pressure value is bad enough)

Nothing European here ... a nice domestic Ford F-350 ... had to take the cab off to remove the heads ... a lot more complicated than most of the issues that occur with the current slate of EVs ...

Not sure how a design defect is an exception when it applied to all 6.0L diesel engines manufactured by Ford from 2004-2006 ... by 2008 it was recognized for what it was and any decent mechanic knows all about it ...

[77TA]

Ford...there's your answer lol

[GordonH]

Ford...there's your answer lol

Ford... Ram... GM, same just different piles of it.