BIOS flash on ASUS board, or...

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DataCruncher
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Re: BIOS flash on ASUS board, or...

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Sonny Taylor wrote: Nov 2nd, 2022, 8:02 am
DataCruncher wrote: Nov 2nd, 2022, 6:52 am So am starting with a fresh 2TB SSD this time around for the C drive. Have other drives attached where files and such are stored including scratch disks.
Is this fresh C drive your current boot drive or a newly formatted drive awaiting a virgin operating system install?
It's installed, formatted and partitioned. I left partition 1 empty with a TB of free space.

What do you recommend in this instance - for fresh install?
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Re: BIOS flash on ASUS board, or...

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Bsuds wrote: Nov 2nd, 2022, 8:01 am
DataCruncher wrote: Nov 2nd, 2022, 6:52 am Like they say, "Backup, backup, backup". [icon_lol2.gif] :130:
Me too, so many hard drives with photos on them sometimes I fight to find a specific picture/file that I know I have somewhere!
The truth in this matter of my circumstance - was when a power supply failed.
I ordered a new one, but from a different vendor. And when I unboxed, all the cables looked identical with that fancy nylon woven sleeve that covers the wires. (sarc)
Plastic plugs were the same, and same fit into the PS.

So, without question, I installed the new and plugged in the existing cables to this power supply,
and then ........ wouldn't boot up. :135:
And I swear, I went as white as a ghost.

Took everything out and bench tested the pin connectors just to find out they had their own pattern, different from the previous one. 5v and 12v were swapped at the unit. :swear:

All said...
fried my main drive, including the backup that was live at that time.

I had recent data burnt to disc, and files on other drives, though lost a couple months of work as a result.

To elaborate further.:

After examining the motherboard under microscope, I could see an SMD chip with a black dot (= fried).
Then with great hopes, purchased a donor board from on-line.

That required removing the EPROM from the dead drive and installing it on the donor board. And to my understanding, there is a code on the EPROM which has to match those on the factory disks, sort of like a combination lock, but I still didn't get a heart beat which may have been caused by excessive heat when de-soldering ? ?
And I'm setup for doing this type of work, however the solder used on these new boards are tough to melt down and reset, even using flux. (stuff built by robots)

Also went as far as getting tools in and pulling the disk stack out with thoughts of dropping them in another housing.

Was a fun experiment, and I learned a lot. [icon_lol2.gif]
True story. :smt045
Thus the three backups now days :)
"Once you see the strings of the marionettes - you can never watch the pantomime the same way again"
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Re: BIOS flash on ASUS board, or...

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DataCruncher wrote: Nov 2nd, 2022, 12:36 pm It's installed, formatted and partitioned. I left partition 1 empty with a TB of free space.

What do you recommend in this instance - for fresh install?
2 big questions...

Are you intending to fresh install Win 10 on a fresh new hard drive (or even partition)? If you are, Win 10 will have no access to everything you knew about Windows 7; there will be no software Icons you knew on your familiar desktop If you boot from that partition. From there to get what you knew before, you'll have to copy, rebuild and re-install everything you're familiar with from other drives or the internet, as if you had a new machine. Win 10 (and windows explorer) will see the other hardware connected to your machine, but won't integrate it to what you knew before as Win 7.

Leads to the next question... Where are you booting from? If you want the upgrade media sent to you by Microsoft to actually "upgrade" you (instead of fresh install), this question needs an answer. If you want to "upgrade" your current operating system (I'll recommend that) instead of a fresh install you will need to know the drive (and partition) you boot Windows 7 from. That is what will be modified in this process.
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Re: BIOS flash on ASUS board, or...

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Afterthoughts...

It's ok to install Windows 10 in a partition which doesn't touch your old Windows 7 drive (partition).

"upgrades" I've done in the past were often re-installs with new software that turned out for the better. So you could fresh install Win 10 on one drive and rebuild what you knew from Win 7 step by step, while hopefully (with your multiple drives) being able to boot either new or old operating system at will. A bit like being able to switch from your old machine to a new one real fast as you do the migration.
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Re: BIOS flash on ASUS board, or...

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Sonny Taylor wrote: Nov 2nd, 2022, 3:25 pm Afterthoughts...

It's ok to install Windows 10 in a partition which doesn't touch your old Windows 7 drive (partition).

"upgrades" I've done in the past were often re-installs with new software that turned out for the better. So you could fresh install Win 10 on one drive and rebuild what you knew from Win 7 step by step, while hopefully (with your multiple drives) being able to boot either new or old operating system at will. A bit like being able to switch from your old machine to a new one real fast as you do the migration.
:up:

Within the backup drives, there's a folder with all the download software compiled over time to make it easier.
Then there are some older ones on disks which take a bit longer for install.
On average, I have 7 apps I use regularly, but many plugins, and that rendering machine rarely goes on-line. It's strictly work related which frees up a lot of resources to attain best performance.
So I'm going to go with a fresh start as it should only take a few hours to get it setup.
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Re: BIOS flash on ASUS board, or...

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DataCruncher wrote: Nov 2nd, 2022, 3:41 pm So I'm going to go with a fresh start as it should only take a few hours to get it setup.
That's usually my preference to start fresh and have the previous Boot drive as back up.
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It will most likely be a Dog, but it is what it is.
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Re: BIOS flash on ASUS board, or...

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DataCruncher wrote: Nov 2nd, 2022, 3:41 pm So I'm going to go with a fresh start as it should only take a few hours to get it setup.
A few hours to setup Win 10, it will automatically fetch updates from the internet (your CD "published" product) will be technically out of date at point of shipping. Well not actually hours, because you have fast hardware, and hopefully fast internet.

A few hours might get you to the point of running your favourite application (such as a game, or video application).

You'll probably find the 80/20 rule applies when you try to migrate to Win 10 the harder but astute way... 80% of the benefit comes from 20% of the work. You'll get the most important things you want from 20% of the effort, but the rest will tie you up for perhaps weeks.

In the end whichever method you choose should be worth the effort.
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Re: BIOS flash on ASUS board, or...

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Bsuds wrote: Nov 2nd, 2022, 4:00 pm
DataCruncher wrote: Nov 2nd, 2022, 3:41 pm So I'm going to go with a fresh start as it should only take a few hours to get it setup.
That's usually my preference to start fresh and have the previous Boot drive as back up.
That was my thought too. Having the backup OS just in the event. ( because, as I know, events do happen [icon_lol2.gif] )
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Re: BIOS flash on ASUS board, or...

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Sonny Taylor wrote: Nov 2nd, 2022, 4:57 pm
DataCruncher wrote: Nov 2nd, 2022, 3:41 pm So I'm going to go with a fresh start as it should only take a few hours to get it setup.
A few hours to setup Win 10, it will automatically fetch updates from the internet (your CD "published" product) will be technically out of date at point of shipping. Well not actually hours, because you have fast hardware, and hopefully fast internet.

A few hours might get you to the point of running your favourite application (such as a game, or video application).

You'll probably find the 80/20 rule applies when you try to migrate to Win 10 the harder but astute way... 80% of the benefit comes from 20% of the work. You'll get the most important things you want from 20% of the effort, but the rest will tie you up for perhaps weeks.

In the end whichever method you choose should be worth the effort.
Some of those (very expensive) applications have now become rentals. :swear:
Can't stand renting software at hundreds a year. What I have is perpetual, and I refuse to rent.
Some have now even switched out the EULA, and to get an upgrade, turns the software into rental.
Would be like the hardware store coming every year to collect on the wheelbarrow and lawn mower bought the year prior.

Bad business practice in my opinion.
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Re: BIOS flash on ASUS board, or...

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DataCruncher wrote: Nov 2nd, 2022, 5:33 pm Some of those (very expensive) applications have now become rentals. :swear:
Can't stand renting software at hundreds a year. What I have is perpetual, and I refuse to rent.
Some have now even switched out the EULA, and to get an upgrade, turns the software into rental.
Would be like the hardware store coming every year to collect on the wheelbarrow and lawn mower bought the year prior.

Bad business practice in my opinion.
Software licensing has a very long history of vendors who set the contract terms to maximize profits. For example...

In the 80's and 90's centralized Mainframe business computing environments, most vendors including IBM "rented" you the software on a monthly basis. The monthly rental rate was dependant on the raw horsepower of your processor (CPU). If you upgraded your CPU, all of your monthly software charges would increase; depending on your new CPU power. The software needed no upgrade for a better CPU, but the rationale for charging more was that the same software on a newer CPU meant you could make more use of it.

Back in those days I was managing a small data centre for a small life insurance company and providing technical support at the same time. Our system was small compared to a bank or larger Insurance company. We only had 14 Gigabytes of disk storage; those drives (8 large boxes, 6 feet tall taking up most of the computer room). Our processor was quite weak by todays standards (A PC these days would put it to shame; we had only 64 Megabytes of RAM).

Our monthly software bill from IBM and our third party software vendors was over $10,000 (as a manager I did the budgeting). We had to pay it because at the time this was the best platform available that would support our "mission critical" needs.
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Re: BIOS flash on ASUS board, or...

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Sonny Taylor wrote: Nov 3rd, 2022, 4:01 am
DataCruncher wrote: Nov 2nd, 2022, 5:33 pm Some of those (very expensive) applications have now become rentals. :swear:
Can't stand renting software at hundreds a year. What I have is perpetual, and I refuse to rent.
Some have now even switched out the EULA, and to get an upgrade, turns the software into rental.
Would be like the hardware store coming every year to collect on the wheelbarrow and lawn mower bought the year prior.

Bad business practice in my opinion.
Software licensing has a very long history of vendors who set the contract terms to maximize profits. For example...

In the 80's and 90's centralized Mainframe business computing environments, most vendors including IBM "rented" you the software on a monthly basis. The monthly rental rate was dependant on the raw horsepower of your processor (CPU). If you upgraded your CPU, all of your monthly software charges would increase; depending on your new CPU power. The software needed no upgrade for a better CPU, but the rationale for charging more was that the same software on a newer CPU meant you could make more use of it.

Back in those days I was managing a small data centre for a small life insurance company and providing technical support at the same time. Our system was small compared to a bank or larger Insurance company. We only had 14 Gigabytes of disk storage; those drives (8 large boxes, 6 feet tall taking up most of the computer room). Our processor was quite weak by todays standards (A PC these days would put it to shame; we had only 64 Megabytes of RAM).

Our monthly software bill from IBM and our third party software vendors was over $10,000 (as a manager I did the budgeting). We had to pay it because at the time this was the best platform available that would support our "mission critical" needs.
I recall seeing those big old heavy gargantuan drives, as a friend dropped in to show me one some time ago. And now they have massive storage and fit the palm of your hand.
Incredible how far technology has come and what's been made available to the consumer so far. (and wonder what hasn't yet)

Re: "monthly rental rate was dependant on the raw horsepower of your processor"

How would they have known back in those times? :135:
Wasn't that before the WWW and back in the Telex days?

//

But,
I just don't feel it's fair.

One component in my toolbox of apps offers extra cores for a render farm.
And I'd love to have the others I have here hooked into the hub for speedier large format renders, however, and as a small business operator, it would just add to the monthly overhead.


And another software product I use regularly has extra features already on the disk (that I have here). But I can only access the first part from it as I didn't initially feel I would require the other at time of purchase.
I did however contact the vendor and offered to pay them the difference for the additional feature, however was told I would have to buy it all over again, and has since evolved as a rental, whether in use or not.
I declined, and payed for a different vendor software that exceeded what they had to offer - and saved a few bucks, which could have been theirs.

Another I have been using (for incremental drive backups) also recently went to rental.
So as I paid for perpetual, it will no longer load on a different workstation and sends me to a page showing options.
BS!

||

What they could at least offer, is after the customer has reached a certain level of payments (for BS rentals),
they then become perpetual.


It used to be a lot friendlier a decade ago when the consumer had better options.
I feel it's similar to price-fixing. :smt045


=======================

As matter of fact, let's call it what it is.:
Corporate greed.

Consider this.:
If I buy a Stihl chain saw, should I be charged extra for how many trees I cut?

Or should the consumer be paying the auto manufacturer more, based on the mileage they drive?
Shoes?
Shirts?
Washer Dryer?
Microwave?
Dishwasher?
etc...

I feel the only reason they get away with it, is because the software is also programmed to 'phone home',
and they have the ability to cut service.
Otherwise, there should be no justification.

Rant over. (almost) [icon_lol2.gif]

[[[[[

And now consider those 'Smart' devices they are trying to persuade.
Same tactic?
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Re: BIOS flash on ASUS board, or...

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DataCruncher wrote: Nov 3rd, 2022, 5:11 am
Re: "monthly rental rate was dependant on the raw horsepower of your processor"

How would they have known back in those times? :135:
Wasn't that before the WWW and back in the Telex days?
Very funny!! I wondered if you might ask such a question and prepared my mind to answer.

Yes, those days were indeed before the proliferation of the Internet and yeah... in the days that Telex was still a thing.

IBM mainframes were the "premier" product for mid to huge centralized business processing at the time. All IBM mainframes were assigned a unique ID called the "CPUID" (long sequence of digits) at the hardware level. This "CPUID" was readable at the software level. The software licenses from IBM and 3rd party vendors were tied to that CPUID.

If you tried to start up software not licensed to the new CPUID, it would simply fail and tell you to phone the vendor for support.

If you were upgrading an IBM mainframe at the time you had a very long planning process with all of your software vendors so you had some expectation of everything coming up as hoped with your new CPUID. Oh... and then you had the budget to worry about!
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Re: BIOS flash on ASUS board, or...

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DataCruncher wrote: Nov 3rd, 2022, 5:11 am Rant over. (almost) [icon_lol2.gif]
I'm with you. Information tech has many people I'd call scammers.

So back to your Windows 10 installation.. Have you received your ordered install media yet? Past experience for me says it will be almost identical to the USB stick you can create for yourself mentioned earlier. The USB stick contains an ISO image of the CD commonly distributed by MS, so what you get will likely be the same as what I've created.

Might be able to help you with that; and wanna make sure you truly understand the difference between "Upgrading" and fresh install. With respect my friend, I fear there may be important nuances you don't know about.
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Re: BIOS flash on ASUS board, or...

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Sonny Taylor wrote: Nov 3rd, 2022, 9:49 am
DataCruncher wrote: Nov 3rd, 2022, 5:11 am Rant over. (almost) [icon_lol2.gif]
I'm with you. Information tech has many people I'd call scammers.

So back to your Windows 10 installation.. Have you received your ordered install media yet? Past experience for me says it will be almost identical to the USB stick you can create for yourself mentioned earlier. The USB stick contains an ISO image of the CD commonly distributed by MS, so what you get will likely be the same as what I've created.

Might be able to help you with that; and wanna make sure you truly understand the difference between "Upgrading" and fresh install. With respect my friend, I fear there may be important nuances you don't know about.
Not yet, should be here by the 7th.

Re: 'difference between "Upgrading" and fresh install"
Thing is, the SSD now in service is of a smaller capacity, and the reason I'm wanting to get everything onto the 2TB SSD.
*But please explain what differences I will encounter as it's not something I do often enough to know.

Re: "The software licenses from IBM and 3rd party vendors were tied to that CPUID."
Ok, now I understand.

Re: "Information tech has many people I'd call scammers."

Yep. :up:

Here is my latest I experience.:

Hello there,

I just wanted to do a final follow up with you as we near the end of the year with my last outreach email. Checking to see if you needed anything else from me in terms of questions or assistance you require with (XXX software name) and upgrading your license. We also have Personal Edition for $448 USD for legacy HD users. Comes with subscription benefits but no Pro features, more for those looking for the HD use only. These upgrade offers I am able to give to you will remain available for the rest of 2022.
If you don’t plan to upgrade until after 2022, you can still reach out to your assigned Customer Success Manager that can see what cost options they might have for you but right now these will be the cheapest options available.

ME:
In regards to "(XXX software name) and upgrading your license",
will this terminate my perpetual version?


A:
I am happy to assist you. When you switch to a subscription license with (XXX software name) and onward, you’ll still continue to have access to your existing previous perpetual (XXX software name) license. So, your previous license will not be terminated when you upgrade.

Though keep in mind that any (XXX software name) files made in (XXX software name) will not work in older versions, as the way it has been for newer versions of(XXX software name) when released that older versions don’t have backward compatibility support. But all older files can be opened in newer version.

If you have any additional questions, let me know.

:135:
:spitcoffee:

As I see it, it's all about getting people onto the 'subscription license'.
I have paid for version 5, then paid upgrades up to 10.
After that last version, things got ugly. [icon_lol2.gif]
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Re: BIOS flash on ASUS board, or...

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DataCruncher wrote: Nov 3rd, 2022, 2:27 pm Re: 'difference between "Upgrading" and fresh install"
Thing is, the SSD now in service is of a smaller capacity, and the reason I'm wanting to get everything onto the 2TB SSD.
*But please explain what differences I will encounter as it's not something I do often enough to know.
What's making this a bit complicated for me is your mention of numerous drives you have (be they SSD, USB or older drives with moving parts (real hard drives with a spinning platter and mechanical fast moving access arm). They are all conceptually the same to Windows; it doesn't care because they are all accessed with the same basic hardware protocol.

Do you have a handle on how these various drives (and/or their partitions) are mapped in windows (or your boot order specified in the BIOS?).

The boot order in the BIOS is important as it determines which drive your system will boot from when you restart or initially power up.

If you're not very sure of these things then you may want to choose the "upgrade" option on your new delivered install media (be it a CD or USB stick, same thing applies).



I assume You currently boot up Windows 7 when you startup. By default, the drive containing the operating system will be mapped to Windows 7 as your "C:" drive.

When your Win 10 install media arrives you can plug it in and find the "Setup.exe" file in it's root folder with Windows Explorer. (Or if you're Windows 7 configuration allows "autoplay" it will start automatically). Since you have an operating system (Win 7) installed, and you started "Setup.exe" using it, Setup will assume you want upgrade your currently booted operating system on your C drive (as opposed to a fresh install).

This is your easiest route to get to Win 10 from Win 7 if you don't want to get too technical and detailed.

Here's a general description of what will happen (you can stop it at a few points if you don't like what it's doing before committing to the upgrade. Once you've committed, don't try to stop it or you risk total corruption. You'll see it do automatic machine restarts perhaps several times in the process; just let it do it's automatic thing.

Setup will first try to update itself because the install media you are using doesn't have the latest Windows updates (almost guaranteed). Your machine speed and Internet speed will determine how long this will take (usually not too long) Leave it alone, let it do it's thing; but if you do kill it at that point, no harm has yet been done to your current system (you're not committed yet).

When you commit the upgrade:

Setup will save your Win 7 system folder (by renaming it) before installing Win 10 code in a new system folder. This is the "C:\Windows" folder. After the upgrade, you'll find your old "C:\Windows" (containing Win 7) renamed to "C:\Windows.old" or something like that. What you NOW see in "C:\Windows" will be the new Win 10 code.

Win 10 will keep your old Win 7 system folder for (I think) about 3 months before automatically deleting it. It will occupy about 30 Gigabytes until it's finally gone (you can delete it yourself if you want).

This "upgrade" will attempt to keep all of your software configurations from Win 7 and provide you with a desktop similar to what you knew before with your Icons for already installed software from Win 7.

I can't guarantee that all of the software you installed on Win 7 will properly run on your new Win 10. You appeared to describe a few very custom pieces of software critical to you with specific licensing requirements. But in my experience with upgrades from Win 7 to Win 10; it was easy to download newer versions of software when necessary, but most software for Win 7 should run without modification on Win 10; it's pretty transparent.

If you truly want a fresh install so you can manually rebuild the system as you knew it (as opposed to "upgrade" above) You've got a whole lot of headaches to overcome; pretty much as if you installed Win 10 on a new virgin machine (I can tell you how that works as well).



As a side note... What is "Boot"?

The commonly known term "Boot" generally refers to freshly starting an operating system on a computer. In the very old mainframe days this was actually called "IPL (or Initial Program Load)". That consisted of a hardware function to read a small program from the boot sector of a drive. That small program would then invoke (in a chain) many other programs to bring up the full operating system software. It was called a "Bootstrap Loader" and I think that's where the term "Boot" came from. Things are not all that much different these days for an operating system startup, although the end processes invoked by the simple first stage startup program are endlessly more complex now.

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