Coun. Isaac Gilbert

[twobits]

Given that a significant portion of the population leans toward the progressive end of the political spectrum I see nothing wrong with some proportional representation foir that group on local council, that’s the way democracy works. If he can’t generate enough of a following to sway council votes then the system is working, but to deny him a voice because we don’t personally agree with what he is saying goes against democratic principle. He did get elected, and in that aspect he has earned his right to speak his mind.

Oh for cripes sake fluff.....no one is denying his right to opinion, what you are dismissing is our right to the opinion that he has been weighed, measured, and found lacking after such a short tenure on Council thus far.
I have had the opportunity to hear him outside of any political setting and my take of the guy is that he is naive and somewhere between a 40 watt and 60 watt bulb in deductive understanding. Other than that.....he is a pretty normal disillusioned voter.

[bobbyrog]

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[fluffy]

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[Corneliousrooster]

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[A Concerned Citizen]

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Speaking of responsibility, gilbert's comments are totally irresponsible ... Reminder, he said:

"My only concern with going with a motion like this is that it perpetuates that fear and stigma that people are coming into our community as criminals, and are causing the crime here yet, if we as society are saying to ourselves that jail is the punishment, I don't think we need to keep continuing punishing people who have come out of jail who are trying to rehabilitate their lives when they come back to their community."

So to break that down a bit, he thinks that people that are being released from prison (which is where they send people for criminal acts) are in fact victims when it was the actions of those criminals that put them there in the first place ... the he implies in saying that 'jail is the punishment' that someone who commits a crime should not be punished when it is in fact their actions that resulted in victimizing otherwise innocent people ...

The absurdity of his comments to support not supporting the motion cannot be more ridiculous and wildly unreasonable ...

The facts are quite simple. Crime has escalated in Penticton ever since the prison was built in Oliver. Prolific criminal repeat offenders are among the most significant causes of crime. The RCMP case load in Penticton is at least double and closer to three times the provincial average case load. We have a justice system that doles out anything but justice anymore and acts more like a revolving door.

We have a Criminal Code in Canada that is supposed to be there for many reasons ... It is a system of values and people are given sentences which expresses denunciation and is simply the means by which these values are communicated. In addition to attaching negative consequences to undesirable behaviour, judicial sentences are and should be imposed in a manner which positively instills the basic set of communal values shared by all Canadians as expressed by the Criminal Code.

gilbert is proverbial bleeding heart that obviously has a difficult time connecting the dots on policy issues like crime ... The remaining six people on council did the right thing by starting to ask for data on which to make decisions.

[fluffy]

*removed* In the end, the democratic process worked as it should, Mr. Gilbert’s points were aired and the vote taken.

[A Concerned Citizen]

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[fluffy]

From the OP:

First......the motion by Konanz to get the numbers and location of releases from the OK Prison. What is wrong with that when Penticton has one of the highest per capita crime rates in the Province?? Councilor Isaac was the lone vote against. His concern....
“My only concern with going with a motion like this is that it perpetuates that fear and stigma that people are coming into our community as criminals, and are causing the crime here yet, if we as society are saying to ourselves that jail is the punishment, I don't think we need to keep continuing punishing people who have come out of jail who are trying to rehabilitate their lives when they come back to their community."

Something that hasn’t been discussed is just what would council do with information on prison releases if they had it ? Special surveillance ? People are eager to jump down Mr. Gilbert’s throat but no one is actually considering the validity of his concern. Are we talking prejudicial treatment as city policy ?

[Corneliousrooster]

From the OP:



Something that hasn’t been discussed is just what would council do with information on prison releases if they had it ? Special surveillance ? People are eager to jump down Mr. Gilbert’s throat but no one is actually considering the validity of his concern. Are we talking prejudicial treatment as city policy ?

It’s a base point to try and figure out what possible direction to go with dealing with the influx of crime. If the numbers show that the prison releases would have little to no effect - don’t go down that path.
If the numbers show a pretty clear correlation then perhaps start lobbying the provincial government for changes to the release procedure in regards to location.

The sky is not falling because information is requested to try and figure out solutions to a growing problem.

People are jumping down mr. Gilbert’s throat because he based his vote on ex convict “feelings”. How is his stance helping Penticton current situation at all?

[fluffy]

If the numbers show a pretty clear correlation then perhaps start lobbying the provincial government for changes to the release procedure in regards to location.

That’s the trouble, how do you establish a direction connection between prison releases and local crime rates ? If both happen to rise, do you conclude that ex-inmates are responsible ?

[Corneliousrooster]

That’s the trouble, how do you establish a direction connection between prison releases and local crime rates ? If both happen to rise, do you conclude that ex-inmates are responsible ?

Nobody is claiming this is a solution - it is a starting point.

Nobody has any idea what percentage of releases are ending up in penticton - thus the request for this data. If the data shows a high percentage, I would image further requests for more detailed data would follow.

You have to start somewhere - where do you propose council focus their efforts?

Feel free to speak up Mr. Gilbert if you have an alternative plan that gets to the root without potentially hurting ex convicts feelings..... or do we just carry on being victims and watch it all happen?

[fluffy]

. You have to start somewhere - where do you propose council focus their efforts?

Maybe a few more dollars for law enforcement ?

I see the source of Mr. Gilbert’s concern, and that is ultimately how this information, if received, would be used. In principle, people exiting the the prison have paid their debt, and if considered a continuing risk they would be under the supervision of some branch of the judicial and/or law enforcement system. Council is doing an end run around these branches, and to what end ?

[A Concerned Citizen]

. You have to start somewhere - where do you propose council focus their efforts?

Maybe a few more dollars for law enforcement ?

I see the source of Mr. Gilbert’s concern, and that is ultimately how this information, if received, would be used. In principle, people exiting the the prison have paid their debt, and if considered a continuing risk they would be under the supervision of some branch of the judicial and/or law enforcement system. Council is doing an end run around these branches, and to what end ?

fluffy ... the problem is that spending more dollars on law enforcement doesn't address the root cause(s) of the problem(s) that include a revolving door in the criminal justice system ... my impression of gilbert's concern is that he simply wanted to be seen as some sort of fountain of sincerity and social justice which is nothing more than hollow virtue signalling.

[bobbyrog]

Maybe a few more dollars for law enforcement ?

I see the source of Mr. Gilbert’s concern, and that is ultimately how this information, if received, would be used. In principle, people exiting the the prison have paid their debt, and if considered a continuing risk they would be under the supervision of some branch of the judicial and/or law enforcement system. Council is doing an end run around these branches, and to what end ?

fluffy ... the problem is that spending more dollars on law enforcement doesn't address the root cause(s) of the problem(s) that include a revolving door in the criminal justice system ... my impression of gilbert's concern is that he simply wanted to be seen as some sort of fountain of sincerity and social justice which is nothing more than hollow virtue signalling.

How does knowing where ex-convicts move after being released from prison "address the root cause(s) of the problem(s)"? What solution arises from having this information?

[fluffy]

What solution arises from having this information?

That’s the elephant in the room right there.