Ukraine war/President/news

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Drip_Torch
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Re: Ukraine Russia war NEWS

Post by Drip_Torch »

Mazdatruck wrote: Dec 7th, 2022, 9:43 pm
Drip_Torch wrote: Dec 7th, 2022, 7:56 pm I'm sorry, can you just skip ahead to the part where "Biden is calling for the end of Russia"? This is all getting a bit tedious. I can hardly wait till the big reveal when you finally show your hand and call me out.

I'm rooting for ya!
You're going to have to define "end" first.

Is regime change the end of Russia?

The best part is you're not arguing with me, you're arguing with senile Joe Biden!

Even the White House had to clarify what "end" means [icon_lol2.gif] [icon_lol2.gif] [icon_lol2.gif]
Nah, it's pretty obvious you're just having trouble with the words "Russia" and "Putin".

Here, let me help you out. Russia is both a land mass and a social construct. Putin is simply a lawless kleptocratic brutal tyrant. Putin could evaporate into a pink mist and Russia wouldn't cease to exist. Both the land mass and the social construct would live on. One could easily argue both the land mass and the social construct would be in a far better place.

As it goes, "regime change" signifies neither an end to Russia nor Putin, it simply means what is says. Time for Putin to retire, disappear or just drop dead. He's lost the plot.
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Drip_Torch
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Re: Ukraine Russia war NEWS

Post by Drip_Torch »

:topic:

Igor Girkin is a despicable fellow, but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate his sense of humour.

For a nuanced look at Russia today, through the eyes of one of the people primarily responsible for starting this war, I am going to copy and paste a translation of his latest missive to the Russian people.

Image

Image

"an amazing and inimitable months long frontal assault on enemy positions in areas prepared in advance (by the enemy), culminating in the capture of the most powerful fortress and the most important city of Ukraine - the urban settlement of Pisky." [icon_lol2.gif]

The "Brilliant regrouping" from the entire Kharkiv region, completed mostly in just three days, but definitely ahead of schedule.

*tears* :laugh:

Too bad the guy is a terrorist and wanted internationally, his Russian political commentary is gold.
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seewood
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Re: Ukraine Russia war NEWS

Post by seewood »

Drip_Torch wrote: Dec 8th, 2022, 1:15 am The "Brilliant regrouping" from the entire Kharkiv region, completed mostly in just three days, but definitely ahead of schedule.

*tears*
yea, that line had me almost spitting out my coffee. pathetic..

I wouldn't mess with Russia if one were stupid enough to try and invade, however their attempts at offensive actions in another country, let alone one next door, apparently have something to be desired.
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seewood
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Re: Ukraine President Zelenskiy

Post by seewood »

Thinktank wrote: Dec 7th, 2022, 10:10 pm We'll probably have WW3 thanks to the man of the year, Voldemort Zelensky.
I'm thinking ww3 might originate in the Pacific and China's attempt in invading Taiwan more than Ukraine trying to defend itself from the unwarranted aggression from Poo-tin's Russia. Taiwan has more geo-political significance than Ukraine and direct( US forces) intervention from the US is very likely.

In Ukraine, there are no western countries armies on the ground there, any more, and it is really unlikely we will see any western( NATO) armies boots on the ground there. All bets are off if Russia were to be stupid enough to have a go with Latvia or another small Baltic soverghn country or any other NATO country.
Russia should just leave Ukraine, lick their wounds pay reparation's to repair all the civilian apartment blocks, civilian hospitals, civilian houses, power plants, substations and whatever else they figured would stop Ukraine from defending it's soverghn territory.
I like the idea of using any frozen Russian assets to assist Ukraine in repairing the above list of destroyed items by Russia.
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captkirkcanada
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Re: Ukraine Russia war NEWS

Post by captkirkcanada »

seewood wrote: Dec 8th, 2022, 7:12 am
Drip_Torch wrote: Dec 8th, 2022, 1:15 am The "Brilliant regrouping" from the entire Kharkiv region, completed mostly in just three days, but definitely ahead of schedule.

*tears*
yea, that line had me almost spitting out my coffee. pathetic..

I wouldn't mess with Russia if one were stupid enough to try and invade, however their attempts at offensive actions in another country, let alone one next door, apparently have something to be desired.
I disagree , russia cant take on ukraine . Russia is on same level as canada except for nukes
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Re: Ukraine Russia war NEWS

Post by seewood »

captkirkcanada wrote: Dec 8th, 2022, 7:42 am I disagree , russia cant take on ukraine . Russia is on same level as canada except for nukes
I agree in that Russia is having a devil of a time with Ukraine and this invasion is pretty much a catastrophe for Russia.
Not sure what you mean by same level as Canada as Russia has a much larger population, standing army, navy and air force compared to Canada, but their GDP is less than Canada's I believe.
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gertlush
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Re: Ukraine Russia war NEWS

Post by gertlush »

Of course you all realize Russia "invaded" using largely proxy forces, with about 1/6 of the troops that are required for an operation like this. With that they have inflicted a huge defeat on a NATO army and splintered the West. They miscalculated the level of Western support, butvare recalibrating, and Ukraine will be destroyed.

Ignore GDP - read some economics books
Ignore CNN - read some military books
Ignore WW2 - read some history books
seewood
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Re: Ukraine Russia war NEWS

Post by seewood »

gertlush wrote: Dec 8th, 2022, 12:26 pm Of course you all realize Russia "invaded" using largely proxy forces, with about 1/6 of the troops that are required for an operation like this. With that they have inflicted a huge defeat on a NATO army and splintered the West. They miscalculated the level of Western support, butvare recalibrating, and Ukraine will be destroyed.
Not sure if the troops that arrived courtesy of Belarus and then sat in a stationary parade for a few days were proxy troops.
Likely capable Russians but some higher ups forgot that the trucks and tanks need fuel. They all went home eventually and then popped up on the eastern sector(s). Bit more fuel this time as the Russian tanks and BMP's seemed to burn rather well.

Long ago watching a Gwyn Dyer documentary I believe I remember him mentioning that if one army want to over run another, the aggressor should plan on 3 times what the other side have. Don't know if this was the case. Chechens ( Russians with beards Ukrainians say) definitely were present as were volunteers from the west on Ukrainians side.

"With that they have inflicted a huge defeat on a NATO army and splintered the West."
Don't think this is the case at all, hyperbole. Just what NATO army has been involved? ( answer-none) oh, I lied, likely some intelligence from NATO (US) surveillance planes in international airspace. Splintered the west?
Nah, that's just pro Russian talking points on their TV shows. Most of us realize the west is in solidarity with Ukraine.
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Drip_Torch
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Re: Ukraine Russia war NEWS

Post by Drip_Torch »

seewood wrote: Dec 8th, 2022, 2:00 pm
gertlush wrote: Dec 8th, 2022, 12:26 pm Of course you all realize Russia "invaded" using largely proxy forces, with about 1/6 of the troops that are required for an operation like this. With that they have inflicted a huge defeat on a NATO army and splintered the West. They miscalculated the level of Western support, butvare recalibrating, and Ukraine will be destroyed.
... Chechens ( Russians with beards Ukrainians say)...
I wouldn't confuse the Kadyrovites with Chechens. Chechens have engaged in conflict twice with the Russians and both times they've been sold out by a Kadyrov. The Chechens fighting for Russia in Ukraine are loyal to Ramzan Kadyrov, thus called Kadyovites. (or the TikTok battalion)

There are two battalions of Chechens fighting for Ukraine. Sheikh Mansur Battalion is in Bakhmut giving the Wagner PMC convicts the fight of their lives. (They don't do TikTok videos - and if they ever did, you wouldn't want to see them.) :smt045
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Even Steven
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Re: Ukraine Russia war NEWS

Post by Even Steven »

seewood wrote: Dec 8th, 2022, 2:00 pmMost of us realize the west is in solidarity with Ukraine.
And ... ?

In the grand scheme of things, the west is a minority. Might be a surprise to you, but the world despises the west and our arrogance. I think everybody is kinda tired of our BS. Tired that we invade other countries, tell other countries what to do, and thinking we're the center of the universe. Right now, Russia is standing up to the bully that we're - in military, financial, and political kind of ways. And people in the rest of the world are quietly cheering for them.

Too bad 100,000 Ukrainian soldiers had to die because of our arrogance.
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Re: Ukraine Russia war NEWS

Post by seewood »

Even Steven wrote: Dec 8th, 2022, 4:09 pm In the grand scheme of things, the west is a minority. Might be a surprise to you, but the world despises the west and our arrogance. I think everybody is kinda tired of our BS. Tired that we invade other countries, tell other countries what to do, and thinking we're the center of the universe. Right now, Russia is standing up to the bully that we're - in military, financial, and political kind of ways. And people in the rest of the world are quietly cheering for them.
OK, lets get :topic:
In this war taking place in Ukraine, the west is not a minority. There is more western support for a want to lean to the west Ukraine, than there is for the russkies.
The Ukrainians are fighting to remain an independent soverghn country, free from Russian corrupt influence. I can't explain it any simpler than that :130:
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Mazdatruck
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Re: Ukraine Russia war NEWS

Post by Mazdatruck »

captkirkcanada wrote: Dec 8th, 2022, 7:42 am I disagree , russia cant take on ukraine . Russia is on same level as canada except for nukes
When Germany invaded Poland to take it over and control it, Hitler garrisoned 1.2 million troops.

Russia used what, 300,000 troops in Ukraine?

Do you think Putin skipped over WWII history?

How can anyone suggest that Putin was trying to "take Ukraine for his own" with 300,000 troops?

The order of business was always just to prevent Ukraine from joining NATO. He's done that.
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Re: Ukraine Russia war NEWS

Post by seewood »

Mazdatruck wrote: Dec 8th, 2022, 5:45 pm The order of business was always just to prevent Ukraine from joining NATO. He's done that.
Guess what, time does not stand still. Ukraine did not join this year obviously, however there is next year and perhaps even 2024 or beyond.

Something about NATO ex Warsaw pact countries, other than Belarus, seem to want to join. Just perhaps being behind the repressive iron curtain all those years " sucked" (L-Lords word :up: ), to a point those ex Warsaw pact countries much prefer a democratic, capitalist style of doing business.
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Drip_Torch
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Re: Ukraine Russia war NEWS

Post by Drip_Torch »

Mazdatruck wrote: Dec 8th, 2022, 5:45 pm
captkirkcanada wrote: Dec 8th, 2022, 7:42 am I disagree , russia cant take on ukraine . Russia is on same level as canada except for nukes
When Germany invaded Poland to take it over and control it, Hitler garrisoned 1.2 million troops.

Russia used what, 300,000 troops in Ukraine?

Do you think Putin skipped over WWII history?
No, but apparently you did. 800,000 to 1 million Soviet troops also invaded Poland, in support of the Nazis, on September 17, 1939 through two fronts. So, it was actually 2 - 2.2 million troops between those two allies, at the time, to take Poland.

Putin may have studied WWII history, but he sure didn't think this one through. Nato is growing exponentially in both membership and armaments since he started this unprovoked war.

:smt045
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Even Steven
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Re: Ukraine Russia war NEWS

Post by Even Steven »

seewood wrote: Dec 8th, 2022, 5:33 pmOK, lets get :topic:
LOL, ok sport.
The Ukrainians are fighting to remain an independent soverghn country, free from Russian corrupt influence. I can't explain it any simpler than that :130:
Yes, it's a nice propaganda headline, and good for you for believing in it.

I'm of the opinion that Ukraine is a victim of western corrupt influence that caused a violent coup d'état, caused a civil war inside Ukraine, caused a Ukrainian collision with Russia that resulted in Russian military action, caused 100,000+ Ukrainian soldiers to die by their own estimates, and will probably cause larger military conflict. Oh, LOL@ country led by a cocaine-snorting president doing everything his western masters telling him to do being an "independent sovereign country" where all independent media, unions, and parties (except for neo-nazi sympathizers) are banned.

Their soldiers with machine guns are raiding women's monasteries because Zelensky is crapping his pants afraid of any sign of dissent. The dude is afraid of bible-thumping chicks. Yes, that's the picture of a democratic and free country [icon_lol2.gif]

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