Four dead in a bus crash on Connector Hwy 97

[Patron]

Not to minimize anything, but why is ensuring a driver has correct tires to drive on a highway a matter for police? Everyone should do a proper check of their vehicle to ensure it is equipped for driving conditions.

I agree. In addition, make sure you have emergency supplies and that you are able to drive in the type of weather forecasted.

It is easy to blame accidents on poor maintenance, however when road conditions are treacherous, no amount of road maintenance during extreme weather conditions is going to ensure the road is safe. Sometimes people need to stay off the roads. We live in a society of people who want what they want and they want it now. The weather doesn't care. Most accidents are due to drivers over estimating their and their vehicle's ability and underestimating the surface they are traveling on.

It is a devastating time for those affected by the bus accident. In addition to lives lost, the psychological effects on the driver and many surviving passengers will be likely be life-long.

I agree, sometimes we just need to stay off the roads, I've been reading where people who drove this area at very close to the same time said the roads were in horrific conditions these highways should have just been closed, we cannot control Mother Nature. this is so sad for everyone involved

[lensbaby]

Not to minimize anything, but why is ensuring a driver has correct tires to drive on a highway a matter for police? Everyone should do a proper check of their vehicle to ensure it is equipped for driving conditions.

Because their not having the correct tires could end up causing accident, injury and death.

[one wheel]

If the Hwy 97 Connector was in dangerous condition for driving why didn't the Minister of Highways order it closed until things improved ?

[Even Steven]

This accident didn’t happen on the Coquihalla. It happened on the Connector Hwy 97C. Can we please at least change the tittle of the post

Done.

[oldtrucker]

I've driven coaches/ busses.
Good tires on a hiway coach only go so far. Glare ice is glare ice. That's why it's a good idea to practice extreme skid recovery in a empty machine even tho it's illegal. A coach is rear heavy, so it's a lot like skid recovery in a rear engine Porsche 911 just way bigger.
If the road conditions are so bad the driver feels uncomfortable or if they feel it's outside of their skill level it's still a no win. Driver can't say they don't want to do the trip. Bus companies or trucking companies don't shut down no matter how bad the weather or roads are. The trip gets canceled when the hiway is closed, that's it.

[Patron]

If the Hwy 97 Connector was in dangerous condition for driving why didn't the Minister of Highways order it closed until things improved ?

that's what should have been done, but I think the pressure of it being Christmas and flights being cancelled here etc and the need to make some sort of travel available for all the people who were complaining about not being able to see family, friends or go on vaca was more important to appease. People complaining about road maintenance , missed flights, etc all seem to think that us humans can control the weather and if not there needs to be something humanly possible at least to do so cause we pay taxes

[Even Steven]

Some roads are just treacherous no matter how much maintenance goes into them. These are mountain passes, not your usual city roads. Weather can change in an hour. It's always been like that.

I'm really tired of people chanting "Things used to be different" to score some points for their agenda (privatization bad). No, they were not. Those highways were always dangerous and unpredictable in the winter.

Want to prove me wrong and prove yourself right? Posts the stats on crashes/casualties on these highways by year so we can see the spike after privatization.

[Patron]

Some roads are just treacherous no matter how much maintenance goes into them. These are mountain passes, not your usual city roads. Weather can change in an hour. It's always been like that.

I'm really tired of people chanting "Things used to be different" to score some points for their agenda (privatization bad). No, they were not. Those highways were always dangerous and unpredictable in the winter.

Want to prove me wrong and prove yourself right? Posts the stats on crashes/casualties on these highways by year so we can see the spike after privatization.

Mother Nature just does her thing and nobody can change that fact. If we can't travel during extreme conditions then we simply can't travel, shut it down until it's safe to do so

[alanjh595]

I've driven coaches/ busses.
Good tires on a hiway coach only go so far. Glare ice is glare ice. That's why it's a good idea to practice extreme skid recovery in a empty machine even tho it's illegal. A coach is rear heavy, so it's a lot like skid recovery in a rear engine Porsche 911 just way bigger.
If the road conditions are so bad the driver feels uncomfortable or if they feel it's outside of their skill level it's still a no win. Driver can't say they don't want to do the trip. Bus companies or trucking companies don't shut down no matter how bad the weather or roads are. The trip gets canceled when the hiway is closed, that's it.

I know just what you mean.
Re:
Back heavy and rear wheel drive. Add to that, the length between front and rear wheels. (off track)

Triple trouble in slippery conditions.

ADD, "sudden changing conditions". I feel sorry for the driver, he will have to live with the guilt/self doubt for the rest of his life.

[GordonH]

My deepest condolences to Families & Friends who lost loved ones in this tragedy.

[Urban Cowboy]

Some roads are just treacherous no matter how much maintenance goes into them. These are mountain passes, not your usual city roads. Weather can change in an hour. It's always been like that.

I'm really tired of people chanting "Things used to be different" to score some points for their agenda (privatization bad). No, they were not. Those highways were always dangerous and unpredictable in the winter.

Want to prove me wrong and prove yourself right? Posts the stats on crashes/casualties on these highways by year so we can see the spike after privatization.

I totally agree with you.

I've been driving BC roads since 1970, which is way before the Coquihalla, and the changes in the way the highways are maintained, so I can guarantee you that at times the roads were horrible back then too.

I recall barely making it up to the crest of a hill that was covered in ice so slick you couldn't get out of your vehicle and remain standing. About eight cars in front of me hit the ditch, and there were no vehicles making it up from the other direction.

The only reason I made it through was because instead of remaining in my lane where everyone was sliding into the ditch, I coasted my car into the oncoming lanes and put two wheels into the snow on the side of the road, then slowly followed it down for 5-7kms at which point the oncoming lanes were blocked with stopped traffic and a snow plow that couldn't make it any further.

My point being, in winter, mountain passes have always been unpredictable, and shall remain so forever.

The recent weather conditions we have had, particularly higher up, meant that winds were blowing sand off leaving treacherous bare ice. The temperature certainly didn't help road maintenance efforts.

So in essence what I'm saying is, those of you who insist that the roads were better way back when, have selective memories and are just plain wrong.

Insofar as this incident goes, that bus should never have been on the road in the first place, even less so, after another one of their buses crashed in the same area just prior.

The government held a press conference, explicitly warning of dangerous road conditions, and instructing everyone to stay off, something I don't actually recall happening before, so what more do you want them to do?

In view of weather events, and clear warnings, that bus trip should have been canceled, just as many plane trips were for the same storm.

This one isn't on road crews, or government, as far as I'm concerned.

Want to prove me wrong and prove yourself right? Posts the stats on crashes/casualties on these highways by year so we can see the spike after privatization.

Even if there were a spike, much of it would have to be attributed to the plethora of AWD and 4WD on the roads now, many of whose owners think they can drive the same way they do in the summer, simply because they own such a vehicle, that in their minds gives them permission to ignore road conditions, warnings, and road signage. Such would make for a large part of the cause for such a spike.

[Mazdatruck]

Not to minimize anything, but why is ensuring a driver has correct tires to drive on a highway a matter for police? Everyone should do a proper check of their vehicle to ensure it is equipped for driving conditions.

It is a matter for the police, however they ticket people for bad tires AFTER they have killed someone or are in the ditch.

Proactive measures work best.

[MAPearce]

Not to minimize anything, but why is ensuring a driver has correct tires to drive on a highway a matter for police? Everyone should do a proper check of their vehicle to ensure it is equipped for driving conditions.

It is a matter for the police, however they ticket people for bad tires AFTER they have killed someone or are in the ditch.

Proactive measures work best.

It doesn't matter now BUT , I'm positive that by now transportation companies understand the value of a good set of tires protecting a more than a half million dollar investment .. That bus cost that without seats . And then there's the "AFTER" . Imagine the liability costs of having a passenger for hire vehicle not LEGALLY equipped ? I'm certain EBus know all about that also

Chirping about tires is beating a dead horse . Move on

[django]

If the road conditions are so bad the driver feels uncomfortable or if they feel it's outside of their skill level it's still a no win. Driver can't say they don't want to do the trip. Bus companies or trucking companies don't shut down no matter how bad the weather or roads are. The trip gets canceled when the hiway is closed, that's it.

I get what you’re saying but you’re wrong, everyone has the right to refuse unsafe work without repercussions anywhere in this country. If they want to be difficult most drivers can find another probably better job in a couple hours. It’s ultimately on the driver to stand up and say no, it’s actually a lot easier to just say no than to have to deal with being in the ditch or worse. If the company doesn’t like it, too bad.

[oldtrucker]

If the road conditions are so bad the driver feels uncomfortable or if they feel it's outside of their skill level it's still a no win. Driver can't say they don't want to do the trip. Bus companies or trucking companies don't shut down no matter how bad the weather or roads are. The trip gets canceled when the hiway is closed, that's it.

I get what you’re saying but you’re wrong, everyone has the right to refuse unsafe work without repercussions anywhere in this country. If they want to be difficult most drivers can find another probably better job in a couple hours. It’s ultimately on the driver to stand up and say no, it’s actually a lot easier to just say no than to have to deal with being in the ditch or worse. If the company doesn’t like it, too bad.

Real world doesn't work like that. You can't run a reliable transport business if your drivers are inexperienced or scared of rough conditions.
If that were the case the store shelves would be empty all winter. How long you been in the transport industry?