Four dead in a bus crash on Connector Hwy 97

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Saviour
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Re: Four dead in a bus crash on Connector Hwy 97

Post by Saviour »

Urban Cowboy wrote: Dec 27th, 2022, 5:59 pm The blurb I read that day said Ebus.

Our officials are also calling it the same company..........
British Columbia's transport minister says investigators looking into a bus crash that claimed four lives on the Okanagan Connector road on Christmas Eve are also considering another crash involving the same operator days earlier.
Ebus (parent company Pacific Western Transportation which operates several divisions including Diversified) was involved in so much as the service was operating on behalf of them.

https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2022/12/2 ... t-company/
The couple says the bus they were in belonged to BlueStar Coachlines, but it was Ebus that did the ticketing and made the travel arrangements.

Speaking with CityNews on Sunday, the president of Ebus, John Stepovy says the bus in the Dec. 20 incident did not belong to the company but was contracted out to BlueStar Coachlines.

“In a busy holiday travel season, we work with partners to provide extra schedules for us,” he said.
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Re: Four dead in a bus crash on Connector Hwy 97

Post by Urban Cowboy »

MAPearce wrote: Dec 27th, 2022, 6:08 pm
The simple fact that bus was even on the road demonstrates the negligent tendencies of the vehicles owners, and lack of regard for their human cargo.
Uh huh .. Lets go BACK ...

The bus was mostly FULL because people wanted to go where they WANTED to ... And PAID , accepted the risk and got on board ..

Blame the bus driver or company ? .. Get stuffed
So I wonder who the deceased's surviving dependents are going to sue if not the bus driver or company?

I guess time will tell whose logic will prevail. :biggrin:

Get stuffed? Still got your mind on turkey I see. [icon_lol2.gif]



ETA: BTW Gordon Vizutti mentioned their driver seemingly driving fast for conditions, having a close encounter which caused him to swerve suddenly and then ask the riders if they were OK, to which the response was we'd be better if you drove slower, failing to take the hint, this driver shortly after clipped a semi truck, but noooooooooooooo........................ let's not blame the driver.
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Re: Four dead in a bus crash on Connector Hwy 97

Post by captkirkcanada »

Urban Cowboy wrote: Dec 27th, 2022, 5:49 pm
MAPearce wrote: Dec 27th, 2022, 5:14 pm Ah .. the Kangaroo court of Castanet ..

Wait for the results of the investigation , M'kay ?

If it were any of you "naysayers" being speculated about , how would you feel ?


You ARE being accused of killing FOUR people ................
Uhuh.......... a Kangaroo court whose speculation is based on multiple news stories, an account from a former news anchor at CHBC who was on the bus owned by the same company, that got into an incident just a day or so prior, and the knowledge that our government held a news conference warning people to stay off the highways due to the extreme conditions present.

Sorry but that's not my definition of a Kangaroo court.

The simple fact that bus was even on the road demonstrates the negligent tendencies of the vehicles owners, and lack of regard for their human cargo.

They should be shut down now until an investigation proves they weren't negligent and deserve to operate in BC, or should we wait for a third bus of theirs to crash?
Which is a big part of what the police and or transport canada will base alot of their findings on besides the numbers of speed , braking if any , steering inputs if any and how it came to rest on its side .

First hand accounts are crucial as you pointed out . :up:
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Re: Four dead in a bus crash on Connector Hwy 97

Post by Fancy »

Unfortunately so many terrible stories will arise from these deaths. And we're seeing it on the news now from finding cell phones to hearing panic and questions because of that. People have to know travelling at this time of year comes with risks. But no one wants the worst outcome. Most will reach their destination - some with colourful stories - but some will not. Tragic.
Truths can be backed up by facts - do you have any?
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Re: Four dead in a bus crash on Connector Hwy 97

Post by MAPearce »

Urban Cowboy wrote: Dec 27th, 2022, 6:28 pm
MAPearce wrote: Dec 27th, 2022, 6:08 pm

Uh huh .. Lets go BACK ...

The bus was mostly FULL because people wanted to go where they WANTED to ... And PAID , accepted the risk and got on board ..

Blame the bus driver or company ? .. Get stuffed
So I wonder who the deceased's surviving dependents are going to sue if not the bus driver or company?

I guess time will tell whose logic will prevail. :biggrin:

Get stuffed? Still got your mind on turkey I see. [icon_lol2.gif]



ETA: BTW Gordon Vizutti mentioned their driver seemingly driving fast for conditions, having a close encounter which caused him to swerve suddenly and then ask the riders if they were OK, to which the response was we'd be better if you drove slower, failing to take the hint, this driver shortly after clipped a semi truck, but noooooooooooooo........................ let's not blame the driver.
So .. Gord Vizutti IGNORED travel advisories and chose to take a bus ?? Go on ....

NOOOOOOO . Blame the driver ..
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Re: Four dead in a bus crash on Connector Hwy 97

Post by Urban Cowboy »

MAPearce wrote: Dec 27th, 2022, 6:57 pm
Urban Cowboy wrote: Dec 27th, 2022, 6:28 pm

So I wonder who the deceased's surviving dependents are going to sue if not the bus driver or company?

I guess time will tell whose logic will prevail. :biggrin:

Get stuffed? Still got your mind on turkey I see. [icon_lol2.gif]



ETA: BTW Gordon Vizutti mentioned their driver seemingly driving fast for conditions, having a close encounter which caused him to swerve suddenly and then ask the riders if they were OK, to which the response was we'd be better if you drove slower, failing to take the hint, this driver shortly after clipped a semi truck, but noooooooooooooo........................ let's not blame the driver.
So .. Gord Vizutti IGNORED travel advisories and chose to take a bus ?? Go on ....

NOOOOOOO . Blame the driver ..
That ministry of transport news conference concerned with freezing rain and ice conditions happened after Gordon's bus ride, but before the second crash. Winter road condition warnings have been happening for several weeks, and happen every winter so those aren't really new. The news conference was new and not the norm.

I actually wondered if that news release wasn't prompted by the first bus crash.
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Re: Four dead in a bus crash on Connector Hwy 97

Post by MAPearce »

Urban Cowboy wrote: Dec 27th, 2022, 7:25 pm
MAPearce wrote: Dec 27th, 2022, 6:57 pm

So .. Gord Vizutti IGNORED travel advisories and chose to take a bus ?? Go on ....

NOOOOOOO . Blame the driver ..
That ministry of transport news conference concerned with freezing rain and ice conditions happened after Gordon's bus ride, but before the second crash. Winter road condition warnings have been happening for several weeks, and happen every winter so those aren't really new. The news conference was new and not the norm.

I actually wondered if that news release wasn't prompted by the first bus crash.
Yeah .. but he was on a bus because the plane said NO ?

Don't tell me that anyone on "The Bus" wasn't looking for a way to get where they WANTED to go ...

And they blame the driver ??

Sad really
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Re: Four dead in a bus crash on Connector Hwy 97

Post by Urban Cowboy »

MAPearce wrote: Dec 27th, 2022, 7:30 pm
Urban Cowboy wrote: Dec 27th, 2022, 7:25 pm

That ministry of transport news conference concerned with freezing rain and ice conditions happened after Gordon's bus ride, but before the second crash. Winter road condition warnings have been happening for several weeks, and happen every winter so those aren't really new. The news conference was new and not the norm.

I actually wondered if that news release wasn't prompted by the first bus crash.
Yeah .. but he was on a bus because the plane said NO ?

Don't tell me that anyone on "The Bus" wasn't looking for a way to get where they WANTED to go ...

And they blame the driver ??

Sad really
OK seriously now, are you suggesting that simply because people who couldn't fly or lost their flights, and subsequently opted for a bus, they thereby agreed to a bus driver not driving to existing conditions?

I hardly think they would have cared, if the bus was only able to drive at 40kph, as long as they got to their destination in one piece, even if it was a few hours later than expected.

After all highways were being closed in various places on an off regardless, so drivers really had no way of knowing if they were going to face a delay or not, in fact advisories explicitly stated to be prepared for them.

That alone proves that speeding, or attempting to even do the speed limit, when not safe to do so was quite pointless.

Please remember that commercial vehicles such as buses, are held to a higher standard than a private vehicle, yet all can be liable to a charge of speeding, if road conditions were such that doing the speed limit was not safe.

Vizutti's statement certainly supports the notion that Ebus drivers tend to push the limits.
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Re: Four dead in a bus crash on Connector Hwy 97

Post by Saviour »

The advisory was to avoid non-essential travel if possible; first off, it was an advisory, not a mandate. Second, public transportation is essential travel - the reasons why passengers are travelling may not be essential, but that is beyond subjective, regardless, the service provided is essential.
Urban Cowboy wrote: Dec 27th, 2022, 6:28 pm ETA: BTW Gordon Vizutti mentioned their driver seemingly driving fast for conditions, having a close encounter which caused him to swerve suddenly and then ask the riders if they were OK, to which the response was we'd be better if you drove slower, failing to take the hint, this driver shortly after clipped a semi truck, but noooooooooooooo........................ let's not blame the driver.
A passengers account can be very skewed in perspective, especially after a traumatic event. Things look very different if one is in the drivers seat versus sitting 30 feet back behind the driver.
Urban Cowboy wrote: Dec 27th, 2022, 7:48 pm
Vizutti's statement certainly supports the notion that Ebus drivers tend to push the limits.
Because of one incident that he witnessed? Thats quite the broad brush. How many other incidents has Ebus or their parent company been involved in? And as explained before, the bus that Vizutti was travelling on was not driven by an Ebus driver nor was it an Ebus coach. Saying that Ebus drivers are "pushing the limits" because of an incident involving a different company is imprudent.
MAPearce wrote: Dec 27th, 2022, 7:30 pmAnd they blame the driver ??
The bottom line is this, an accident is compromised of a series of events and factors, but at the end of the day, the driver is the one who makes a decision to proceed or not to proceed and what speed or manner he is driving in any given condition.

Every one is screaming "drive to the conditions", but none of us know what the conditions were at the time and they can change very quickly, for all we know, he could have been driving to the conditions and they changed rapidly and was adjusting his speed accordingly at the time of the accident. Perhaps he was driving to conditions, started nodding off and cranked the wheel as he panically woke up. We don't know.
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Re: Four dead in a bus crash on Connector Hwy 97

Post by captkirkcanada »

That is true that conditions can change fast on that road , i can agree with that fact , but i think experianced winter drivers will say drive to the worst condotion as opposed to on the edge . Theres a prelim report out that is putting weight on the road conditions being dynamic , that the road changed between wet clear to frozen ice .

I think its safe to say that speed is what will catch a person by surprise and you have seconds to make the right manouver or its off for a ride uncontrolled .

I have to lean towards the better to be late and go as slow as you have to but im not a bus driver nor a traffic investigator .
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Re: Four dead in a bus crash on Connector Hwy 97

Post by Urban Cowboy »

Ebus sold the tickets to their Ebus passengers. The buses were contracted to Ebus so give it a rest already with the semantics, because at the time in question whomever was driving was doing it for the entity known as Ebus.

That's also how our ministry of transport and CVSE officers are investigating it.

You're simply coming off as someone attempting to defend the indefensible.
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Re: Four dead in a bus crash on Connector Hwy 97

Post by Saviour »

Urban Cowboy wrote: Dec 27th, 2022, 8:45 pm Ebus sold the tickets to their Ebus passengers. The buses were contracted to Ebus so give it a rest already with the semantics, because at the time in question whomever was driving was doing it for the entity known as Ebus.
So, if Air Canada sells a ticket on a United Airlines flight and the United flight crashes, Air Canada and their pilots will come under scrutiny because Air Canada sold the ticket?

Lets just say, hypothetically, BlueStar has a series of infractions and Pacific Western Transportation does not, BlueStar could lose their operating certificate which would have zero implications on PWT other than they'd have to find a new subcontractor.

Again, this is much more than just "semantics".
Urban Cowboy wrote: Dec 27th, 2022, 8:45 pmThat's also how our ministry of transport and CVSE officers are investigating it.
Is it? How so? Because Ebus sold the tickets? Pretty sure the Ministry of Transportation and the CVSE aren't too concerned about that - they're a little pre-occupied by road conditions, weather conditions, mechanical condition of the coach, driver error, etc.

Now, if Pacific Western Transportation has a history of infractions or incidents involving their own vehicles/employees, then that will certainly come under the microscope but a singular incident involving a separate company will hold no value or interest in the investigation. Feel free to correct me by explaining what relevance this will have in the investigation.
Urban Cowboy wrote: Dec 27th, 2022, 8:45 pmYou're simply coming off as someone attempting to defend the indefensible.
Correcting factual errors is not "defending" anything.
Last edited by Saviour on Dec 27th, 2022, 9:20 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Four dead in a bus crash on Connector Hwy 97

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Saviour wrote: Dec 27th, 2022, 7:58 pm A passengers account can be very skewed in perspective, especially after a traumatic event. Things look very different if one is in the drivers seat versus sitting 30 feet back behind the driver.
I think the story said they were sitting up front and that she had to pick broken glass off herself after the accident.

So not 30 feet back but right up front.
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Re: Four dead in a bus crash on Connector Hwy 97

Post by Saviour »

Bsuds wrote: Dec 27th, 2022, 9:00 pm
So not 30 feet back but right up front.
I was just using that to illustrate a point - perspective from a passengers point of view in a bus can be very deceptive.
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Re: Four dead in a bus crash on Connector Hwy 97

Post by thesportinglife »

Tero wrote: Dec 27th, 2022, 5:43 pm
thesportinglife wrote: Dec 27th, 2022, 12:16 am I cannot comment on whether Ebus drivers drive too fast, or speed. However, I will share an incident that I saw at the Kelowna airport, a few weeks ago. I saw a lineup of 30 or more people waiting to load into an Ebus. The driver, a fat, overweight man, was acting very rude and was yelling and shouting at his mostly young passengers and appeared to be explaining the rules to them ?

Yes, I "get" that rules need to be made clear to people, but is yelling and shouting at your passengers, helpful ?
I say that the speeding of the Ebus under dangerous winter road conditions, is consistent with one who also shouts and yells at his passengers.

Why ? Because it shows that you are an "a hole" who does not care about the safety of the public? It's not just one incident, either. Maybe the PTB (Passenger Transportation Board) needs to look into the fitness of the licence holder (Ebus) to offer rides to the public, both safely and professionally.

if you were recently on an EBus and your experience was less than satisfactory, you need to write a letter to the PTB and tell them your side of the story. If enough people write in, then the PTB may call a hearing into the licensee's fitness to hold a permit to operate a bus service.
What the hell does this have to do with the crash??? And what the hell does being overweight have to do with anything? What are you talking about???
You don't get it, do you ? If the transit operator is rude and is heard yelling at his passengers and for no good reason, then, that translates into rudeness and taking unnecesary chances on the road, such as speeding. And speeding MAY well have been a contributing factor in that accident/crash.

That will all come out at the civil lawsuit trial (REST ASSURED !)

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