Police scanners

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binky11
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Police scanners

Post by binky11 »

Many years ago I used to own a police scanner. Back in the days before they descrambled them or whatever it was they did that rendered mine useless.
Are there online links to access police and EMT calls in this area? I hear some people talk about listening in but not sure how one can do that these days?
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Babba_not_Gump
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Re: Police scanners

Post by Babba_not_Gump »

Looks like you're SOL binky.
Most radios are now digital, so you can't pick anything up.
I'm posting this from Traditional lands of the British Empire & the current Lands of The Dominion of Canada.
I also give thanks for this ethos richness bestowed on us via British Colonialism.

#StandUpToJewishHate
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binky11
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Re: Police scanners

Post by binky11 »

Well dang. I keep seeing people saying they heard this and heard on on their scanners and got curious as to where they might be listening in? They obviously know something I don’t.
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Sonny Taylor
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Re: Police scanners

Post by Sonny Taylor »

binky11 wrote: Jan 6th, 2023, 1:33 pm Many years ago I used to own a police scanner. Back in the days before they descrambled them or whatever it was they did that rendered mine useless.
Are there online links to access police and EMT calls in this area? I hear some people talk about listening in but not sure how one can do that these days?
I have doubts that that's possible (at least not easily). It's easy to find police scanner web sites in the USA that listen in to analog VHF FM, but I've found nothing online that covers the RCMP in Kelowna. There were a few easy to find sites before the RCMP digital encrypted conversion.

This is a topic that was discussed on Castanet over 10 years ago shortly after the RCMP went from analog VHF radio to digital and encrypted. The thread is 8 pages long and varies a bit.

Here is that thread: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=39774&hilit=police ... encryption

This is long winded, but here are my favorite out-takes from the thread...

Ace Storman wrote: Jun 14th, 2013, 5:21 pm
GenuinelyInterested wrote:I have the newest and best scanner + encryption codes with a subscription. I have been too busy to FULLY decode everything yet but, I can tell the difference between male and female officers/dispatchers.

It won't take me too long to totally decrypt everything when I have some time available to do so.

Ok...GenuinelyInterested...time to give it a break. Emergency services have gone digital for two reasons.

1) to provide better, trunked radio service for each respective service that uses the system. You can have many services that use the system at the same time. This technology is similar to what is used by the cell phone companies. Many subscribers moving from area to area and the calles get handed off to the area which has the strongest mobile signal. Essentially, this is a roaming communication system.

2) To keep unauthorised listeners (perhaps like yourself) from eavesdropping on communications that are not of anyones business, except that of the persons authorised to be part of the call. This would unfortunately include you!

Your quote that "I have the newest and best scanner + encryption codes with a subscription" means nothing to me. For that statement...I call Bullsh*t! You cannot subscribe to such a privately encrypted service. That subscription (if it were possible), would be highly illegal and would be shut down rather quickly. Proprietors of such a site would face legal challenges and would be fined and / or jailed! This technology cannot be compared to the old DTH tv service where one subscribes to a site to receive regular .bin files for their favorite FTA receivers. One just has to search the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) and the consequences it had on many American and Canadian residence. Astronomical fines and jail times were issued to many folks.

To be "in the know" of such encryption keys, you must be security cleared, provide regular Criminal Record checks and sign very specific NDS (None Disclosure Statements). Breach of the aforementioned WILL cost one his or her job AND face prosecution (ie; Fine or Jail, OR BOTH).

Encryption codes usually change on a regular basis and the new codes are made available to the authorised radios in the fleet electronically. Codes change (roll over) as much as several time per day to several per week .Only authorised radios (with specific ESN's) will receive the required information and roll over to the new encryption code. And if by chance you have acquired a mobile or portable radio (stolen or lost), when discovered missing by its rightful owner(s), it will simply be remotely shut down, making it just a dumb electronic brick. In some cases, depending on the shutdown request (a common feature in Military radios) once shut down, the radios are electronically destroyed internally, making them permanently unusable and unrepairable.

If your not part of the authorised fleet...you're not part of the group....ie; silence!

I hope I was able to shed some light on this for you and to clarify things a bit better.

Incidentally, my background includes being a C.E.T. (Certified Electronics Technician) specialising in Computer Data Management and Design, Communication specialist and a Military communications contractor working with both Analog and Digital communications, employing Analog and Digital encryption for Military Communication security. This technology is very familiar to me.

and my apologies for the long winded post...

Cheers,

Norman
And this one...
Nikon86 wrote: May 6th, 2013, 8:31 pm
process99 wrote:
http://tech.slashdot.org/story/11/09/10 ... Encryption

http://www.nicta.com.au/pub?doc=5076

The keys can be brute forced almost exactly like the sat keys were done with distributed processing and shared privately. As some have eluded too they are also sold, which is wrong. Any encryption schemes used today can be broken especially when there are so many possibilities for leaks with regards to these setups we are discussing. They have techs that work on the systems in every town and they are all geeks just like us. Do you actually think we cannot listen to the RCMP today because they went to P25 with a key. ?
Seriously man, I have been doing things my entire life people said could not be done, I can assure you this can and is being done even before you and I even knew it was going to go digital. You would be quite disappointed in how fast encryption walls fall with even a couple of decent PC's with the digital IF feeding directly into the software to analyze and brute force keys.
On a personal note last 256 bit key I brute forced myself with one P3 took 4 days.
If you have any knowledge of encryption then you know that there are multiple ways to aquire the keys when one wants them for a project.
The best analogy I can give you is until all the radios have been equipped with a custom rom built by a security company similar to say nagravision in house (never shared with anyone) then getting the" shared " key (this is how P25 works when encrypted) can be brute forced.
Once you have the main trunk key most of the standard P25 handheld scanner/trancievers(that allow key entry(note)) will track and map the system within a day or so and there you have your template , and the rest as they say is history.
(we are going with some certainty for now that the main trunk shares the same key with all the at least dept cars for their respective area).
Once you see a couple keys brute forced you can begin to check dept to dept and see if the key is the same province wide etc.
This really is not as hard as some people seem to make it out to be.
Honestly its easier than popping a wifi router open with full encryption on. Just need some extra equipment to get your digital IF to serial link done up.

We should be clear now right? :)
""7 Conclusions
P25 radio systems are more secure than conventional analogue radio systems
but not nearly as secure as the term “encrypted” would imply. The most serious
security flaw in P25 is the optional nature of the security protocol, however
even when the security protocol is used several serious security flaws present the
design of P25 cryptographic protections, remain:
– Weak encryption permits an attacker to recover the encryption key, and fre-quent re-keying is not an effective defence.""

P99
Prove it...and feel free to post the results or what you hear.
I could be wrong, but I don't think Process99 ever proved it. This was 10 years ago but I have no reason to believe things have changed. I'm skeptical of anyone saying saying they can listen to the RCMP communications without being an insider.
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Re: Police scanners

Post by DANSPEED »

Oh those were the days! I had a SONY ICF-PRO 80. We were cruising around town one night with the scanner on the floor and got stopped by the cops in a road check. The cop leaned in to ask us a few questions and the scanner started chatting on channel B. The cop freezes, looks down at his radio, looks up at us, looks down again then slowly waves us on! [icon_lol2.gif] .... It was fun because you could report things then listen to dispatch announce it. One night they were looking for a stolen car in my area. A few hours later it stopped outside my house so I told dispatch the car your looking for is right outside my house! It was sad when they went digital but they had no privacy apart from cell phones later on. You can listen to police calls all across the US with mobile apps. In some states police calls aren't scrambled by law. I listen to New York and Chicago police calls sometimes but it's all just shootings and reports of "gang bangers" as dispatch calls them.
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binky11
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Re: Police scanners

Post by binky11 »

Sonny Taylor wrote: Jan 6th, 2023, 4:44 pm
binky11 wrote: Jan 6th, 2023, 1:33 pm Many years ago I used to own a police scanner. Back in the days before they descrambled them or whatever it was they did that rendered mine useless.
Are there online links to access police and EMT calls in this area? I hear some people talk about listening in but not sure how one can do that these days?
I have doubts that that's possible (at least not easily). It's easy to find police scanner web sites in the USA that listen in to analog VHF FM, but I've found nothing online that covers the RCMP in Kelowna. There were a few easy to find sites before the RCMP digital encrypted conversion.

This is a topic that was discussed on Castanet over 10 years ago shortly after the RCMP went from analog VHF radio to digital and encrypted. The thread is 8 pages long and varies a bit.

Here is that thread: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=39774&hilit=police ... encryption

This is long winded, but here are my favorite out-takes from the thread...

Ace Storman wrote: Jun 14th, 2013, 5:21 pm


Ok...GenuinelyInterested...time to give it a break. Emergency services have gone digital for two reasons.

1) to provide better, trunked radio service for each respective service that uses the system. You can have many services that use the system at the same time. This technology is similar to what is used by the cell phone companies. Many subscribers moving from area to area and the calles get handed off to the area which has the strongest mobile signal. Essentially, this is a roaming communication system.

2) To keep unauthorised listeners (perhaps like yourself) from eavesdropping on communications that are not of anyones business, except that of the persons authorised to be part of the call. This would unfortunately include you!

Your quote that "I have the newest and best scanner + encryption codes with a subscription" means nothing to me. For that statement...I call Bullsh*t! You cannot subscribe to such a privately encrypted service. That subscription (if it were possible), would be highly illegal and would be shut down rather quickly. Proprietors of such a site would face legal challenges and would be fined and / or jailed! This technology cannot be compared to the old DTH tv service where one subscribes to a site to receive regular .bin files for their favorite FTA receivers. One just has to search the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) and the consequences it had on many American and Canadian residence. Astronomical fines and jail times were issued to many folks.

To be "in the know" of such encryption keys, you must be security cleared, provide regular Criminal Record checks and sign very specific NDS (None Disclosure Statements). Breach of the aforementioned WILL cost one his or her job AND face prosecution (ie; Fine or Jail, OR BOTH).

Encryption codes usually change on a regular basis and the new codes are made available to the authorised radios in the fleet electronically. Codes change (roll over) as much as several time per day to several per week .Only authorised radios (with specific ESN's) will receive the required information and roll over to the new encryption code. And if by chance you have acquired a mobile or portable radio (stolen or lost), when discovered missing by its rightful owner(s), it will simply be remotely shut down, making it just a dumb electronic brick. In some cases, depending on the shutdown request (a common feature in Military radios) once shut down, the radios are electronically destroyed internally, making them permanently unusable and unrepairable.

If your not part of the authorised fleet...you're not part of the group....ie; silence!

I hope I was able to shed some light on this for you and to clarify things a bit better.

Incidentally, my background includes being a C.E.T. (Certified Electronics Technician) specialising in Computer Data Management and Design, Communication specialist and a Military communications contractor working with both Analog and Digital communications, employing Analog and Digital encryption for Military Communication security. This technology is very familiar to me.

and my apologies for the long winded post...

Cheers,

Norman
And this one...
Nikon86 wrote: May 6th, 2013, 8:31 pm

Prove it...and feel free to post the results or what you hear.
I could be wrong, but I don't think Process99 ever proved it. This was 10 years ago but I have no reason to believe things have changed. I'm skeptical of anyone saying saying they can listen to the RCMP communications without being an insider.

Thank you for all this interesting info. 👍
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django
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Re: Police scanners

Post by django »

binky11 wrote: Jan 6th, 2023, 1:33 pm Many years ago I used to own a police scanner. Back in the days before they descrambled them or whatever it was they did that rendered mine useless.
Are there online links to access police and EMT calls in this area? I hear some people talk about listening in but not sure how one can do that these days?
Use this website https://www.broadcastify.com/listen/ctid/5562 I see Kelowna is offline today but we’ve used it lots to listen to Kelowna fire and ambulance, especially when we had the fires up and down the lake recently. If you search around there are police departments from all over the US as well as fire and emergency services in general that broadcast to this site.
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Re: Police scanners

Post by Sonny Taylor »

django wrote: Jan 15th, 2023, 1:34 pm Use this website https://www.broadcastify.com/listen/ctid/5562 I see Kelowna is offline today but we’ve used it lots to listen to Kelowna fire and ambulance, especially when we had the fires up and down the lake recently. If you search around there are police departments from all over the US as well as fire and emergency services in general that broadcast to this site.
Have you ever specifically seen Kelowna RCMP online and been able to listen in? It was freely available before the digital conversion a decade ago, on multiple sites that have long since gone quiet.

When was the last time you saw Kelowna Fire online? I suspect they joined the system the RCMP uses on their own "digital channels" and are now encrypted too.

I doubt any services specifically "broadcast to this site". I suspect that this site has contributing members that use VHF/UHF radio receivers that feed analog unencrypted audio to the website from numerous cities. [Edit] maybe I read too much into your words[/Edit]

I know this is a lot of "I suspect", but I get suspicious when anyone states they can listen to the Kelowna RCMP at least.
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GordonH
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Re: Police scanners

Post by GordonH »

Doubtful anyone is able to listen to digital encrypted rcmp channels (besides the rcmp).
I don't give a damn whether people/posters like me or dislike me, I'm not on earth to win any popularity contests. I am an old cantankerousness grump that happens to be very opinionated.
django
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Re: Police scanners

Post by django »

Sonny Taylor wrote: Jan 15th, 2023, 3:32 pm
django wrote: Jan 15th, 2023, 1:34 pm Use this website https://www.broadcastify.com/listen/ctid/5562 I see Kelowna is offline today but we’ve used it lots to listen to Kelowna fire and ambulance, especially when we had the fires up and down the lake recently. If you search around there are police departments from all over the US as well as fire and emergency services in general that broadcast to this site.
Have you ever specifically seen Kelowna RCMP online and been able to listen in? It was freely available before the digital conversion a decade ago, on multiple sites that have long since gone quiet.

When was the last time you saw Kelowna Fire online? I suspect they joined the system the RCMP uses on their own "digital channels" and are now encrypted too.

I doubt any services specifically "broadcast to this site". I suspect that this site has contributing members that use VHF/UHF radio receivers that feed analog unencrypted audio to the website from numerous cities. [Edit] maybe I read too much into your words[/Edit]

I know this is a lot of "I suspect", but I get suspicious when anyone states they can listen to the Kelowna RCMP at least.
Where did I state I could listen to the RCMP? It’s probably been two or three months since I’ve listened to Kelowna fire or ambulance calls on this site, I originally got the link from a poster on this forum I think during the last bunch of fires we had in the area. So I suspect you didn’t read my post,
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Re: Police scanners

Post by Sonny Taylor »

django wrote: Jan 16th, 2023, 8:59 am Where did I state I could listen to the RCMP?
You didn't, and I did read your post. I admit what I said was a little out of context, but the thread is after all titled "Police Scanners". Sorry if I rubbed you the wrong way; that wasn't my intent. Peace. :smt045

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