Transgendered Woman Upset by Gym's Policy

[Realeyesrealize]

*removed*

[Realeyesrealize]

Its so absurd that we all are even having this debate. The fact it's gone this far is even more absurd and just shows how far gone some people truly are. As a man, I have no desire to demand that I be allowed in a Women only gym. In the same way, I may not agree with West Bank First Nations having their own private beach but im certainly not going to protest and demand that I can use it when there is plenty of beaches to use.

The fact that it's "gone this far" only shows that there are conflicting opinions among people. It doesn't mean you're right or that I am. It doesn't mean anyone is crazy and it just because the majority feels the way you do, doesn't make your position the right one. You, and everyone else, might be fighting for the wrong side on this one. None of us need to be historians to be aware of how society can rally together to commit great atrocities. Think about the 40's in Europe. What if people had decided, much sooner, that it should be stopped?

And these people wonder why the majority have had enough of it all and are now finally speaking out against this craziness.

Is it that you have the majority on your side that makes you feel you're right? That isn't even have democracy works. Believe it or not, the majority often makes really bad decisions. Look at some of the most awful politicians elected into government in the USA. It's not an indication that they made a good voting decision.

To me, there is something really suspect about stories like this because it always seems to involve Trans-Women (biological men) and never Trans-men (biological women) Really seems like it's just a bunch of Men wanting to be around women and using this as an excuse for whatever reasons that may be to do so. Otherwise, we would be seeing the same stories about trans-men but we don't. Jessica Yaniv is the perfect example of a clear man demanding women's salons wax his dick and then tried to sue, forcing these minority/immigrant businesses to have to deal with these absurd claims against them.

And that is the power of confirmation bias. You read stories the news writes for you. You don't read news articles that are deemed to be too boring to write.
Do you think that people are dying faster than being born? Don't hear a lot of news stories about child birth, but every day we learn about people dying in all sorts of ways.

What if. Maybe breathe a sec, and allow your rage to dull for a moment, then just consider this next part.
What if, woman complaining about trans woman is the thing people like to read about? What if those are the stories that get published? What if woman becoming men is just as prevalent, but that most men can't tell or don't care that a trans male in working out beside them? What if, this whole issue is just woman causing drama because they think all trans woman are sick perverts looking to rape them. Even if all of it is unfounded.

What if you are just taking part in the herd mentality and failing to consider reality.

I love every comment you post. Truly a voice of reason in this echo chamber.

Female-to-male transitioners have a much easier time fitting in.
I have close friends on both sides of transition. My female friend fears for her life even after getting facial feminization. She believes that no one will love her simply because she is who she is.
My male friend goes to the gym, has loads of male friends, is dating a woman, etc.

[rustled]

Yes. That's why I mentioned trolling. Here we have a man arguing that women should not be justified in having an issue with having a man in the women's only gym they paid to attend.

Right. Obviously I could be nothing but a troll if I don't share your opinion. I've been on the internet for a long time. Don't worry, you haven't hurt my feeling.

Is this the type of thing where people you disagree with get called names? You and the Green Barbarian can join forces in denouncing me. I really couldn't care less.

But, you're building a straw man argument with your statement. It's my belief that woman only gyms shouldn't be accepted by society.
It's NOT my opinion or my argument that woman shouldn't feel justified in their feelings. Whether they paid for it or not is immaterial.

Speaking of straw man arguments, it seems dishonest to accuse gardengirl of calling people names because of something someone else said, and dishonest to suggest she apologized for hurting your feelings. Accusing others of feeling rage, etc., in order to lecture about feelings. But honestly:

Why should women NOT be allowed to create spaces where women will feel safe doing what men feel safe doing?

[77TA]

Let's change the scenario from a gym to a woman's shelter.

Women deserve to have safe and comfortable places free of male anatomy if they so choose. It's hard to believe some disagree with that.

[Nedroj]

The fact that it's "gone this far" only shows that there are conflicting opinions among people. It doesn't mean you're right or that I am. It doesn't mean anyone is crazy and it just because the majority feels the way you do, doesn't make your position the right one. You, and everyone else, might be fighting for the wrong side on this one. None of us need to be historians to be aware of how society can rally together to commit great atrocities. Think about the 40's in Europe. What if people had decided, much sooner, that it should be stopped?

Is it that you have the majority on your side that makes you feel you're right? That isn't even how democracy works. Believe it or not, the majority often makes really bad decisions. Look at some of the most awful politicians elected into government in the USA. It's not an indication that they made a good voting decision.

What the hell are you talking about? In a democracy, the free people vote for whom they want to lead the country, and the party with the most votes, or also considered the majority of the votes wins and forms the new government. Believe it or not, everyone makes mistakes. I know the awful government in the USA is about as bad as it can get with senile old Joe Biden that can barely walk let alone run a powerful country. And look at the awful government Canadians have elected twice now with all his scandals, sexual harassment claims, and multiple instances of Black/Brown face.

I feel right about what Im stating because it is routed in basic biology and has been confirmed for decades of scientific studies that someone born with a Penis and has XY chromosomes is a Male human being. If you are born with a vagina/uterus and have XX chromosomes then you are a Female human being. No matter what advancements are made in medical procedures regarding sex change operations, no manner of surgery will change this basic fact. DNA doesnt lie. These people should just learn to live and love themselves the way they are. No need to change anything.

To me, there is something really suspect about stories like this because it always seems to involve Trans-Women (biological men) and never Trans-men (biological women) Really seems like it's just a bunch of Men wanting to be around women and using this as an excuse for whatever reasons that may be to do so. Otherwise, we would be seeing the same stories about trans-men but we don't. Jessica Yaniv is the perfect example of a clear man demanding women's salons wax his dick and then tried to sue, forcing these minority/immigrant businesses to have to deal with these absurd claims against them.

And that is the power of confirmation bias. You read stories the news writes for you. You don't read news articles that are deemed to be too boring to write.
Do you think that people are dying faster than being born? Don't hear a lot of news stories about childbirth, but every day we learn about people dying in all sorts of ways.

What if. Maybe breathe a sec, and allow your rage to dull for a moment, then just consider this next part.
What if, women complaining about trans women is the thing people like to read about? What if those are the stories that get published? What if women becoming men is just as prevalent, but most men can't tell or don't care that a trans male is working out beside them? What if, this whole issue is just women causing drama because they think all trans women are sick perverts looking to rape them. Even if all of it is unfounded.

What if you are just taking part in the herd mentality and failing to consider reality?

Actually, I did just read a story where Japan's Birthrate is lower than its death rate and they are concerned due to their immigration laws that restrict non-Japanese people from becoming citizens.

This might confuse you as your group seems to think that just because we don't agree with trans people's choices and views we must hate and despise them. Nothing can be further from the truth. We feel sorry for these people suffering from a serious mental illnesses. All these what if this, what if that scenarios, it means nothing to me because I'm not a female and I dont go to the gym. But I can understand why and sympathize with biological women when it comes to being in a Women's only gym or in a women's only locker/change room and there are biological men in with them. While I wouldn't claim to say all trans-gendered people are predators, in the same way, I wouldn't claim all Men are predators, but I still wouldn't want men (as innocent as they may be) to be allowed in a womens change room or bathroom.

I feel sorry and pity for trans people and all others with mental illnesses as when/if society really breaks down into chaos, these people will be the first to get sent to an island.

[rustled]

Let's change the scenario from a gym to a woman's shelter.

Women deserve to have safe and comfortable places free of male anatomy if they so choose. It's hard to believe some disagree with that.

Not much point changing the scenario, though - cuz despite how this affects the women fleeing abuse, biological males are now accepted in women's shelters.

[Nedroj]

I love every comment you post. Truly a voice of reason in this echo chamber.

This should get a Hilarious comment of the year award.

Voice of reason claiming that men can become women when you learn basic biology in Grade 7.

[77TA]

Let's change the scenario from a gym to a woman's shelter.

Women deserve to have safe and comfortable places free of male anatomy if they so choose. It's hard to believe some disagree with that.

Not much point changing the scenario, though - cuz despite how this affects the women fleeing abuse, biological males are now accepted in women's shelters.

Yes, you are absolutely right.
It just exemplifies how inappropriate these situations have become and yet remain supported by some.

[youjustcomplain]

Speaking of straw man arguments, it seems dishonest to accuse gardengirl of calling people names because of something someone else said, and dishonest to suggest she apologized for hurting your feelings. Accusing others of feeling rage, etc., in order to lecture about feelings. But honestly:

Why should women NOT be allowed to create spaces where women will feel safe doing what men feel safe doing?

In my defense, I quote peoples comments and respond to them. I've twice been called a troll in this thread. I've defended that and made some assumptions as to why I've been designated a troll by her. Yes, I lumped her in with the green barbarian because both have resorted to name calling.

I think it's that they aren't interesting in opening their eye's to the very hostile world they aren't interesting in changing. Maybe I'm wrong though. Maybe they truly do want the hostility towards trans people to stop. I just can't seem to get that from their comments.

[mexi cali]

It is ludicrous to think that transgender "women" could be allowed in a women's shelter.

[youjustcomplain]

I love every comment you post. Truly a voice of reason in this echo chamber.

Female-to-male transitioners have a much easier time fitting in.
I have close friends on both sides of transition. My female friend fears for her life even after getting facial feminization. She believes that no one will love her simply because she is who she is.
My male friend goes to the gym, has loads of male friends, is dating a woman, etc.

I have an extended family member who's trans. I haven't talked with him in a long time, but I do know how I thought and felt about trans people before I actually better learned about his issues. I know how he see's the world and he's got it easier than trans woman do. I can only imagine what it might be like to experience the self hatred and external judgements placed on them. Society, as whole, wants them to adapt to the society we've built that is very hostile to them.

Why should they have to adapt to society, but not society also adapt them? hypothetically of course.

[mexi cali]

Maybe they truly do want the hostility towards trans people to stop. I just can't seem to get that from their comments.

I would hope so. Ones personal views on the subject cannot digress into violence if those views are not supportive.

Violence toward any person or group or ethnicity or religious bent is nothing more than an act of cowardice.

In general, those who do could self identify as mouth breathing knuckle draggers.

[rustled]

It's misguided to accuse people who DO support change FOR THE BETTER of "not opening their eyes" for pointing out the significant problems with changes being made to support the "diversity, inclusion and equity" agenda.

It seems to me we're now at a point our society, where more hostility is shown toward people who point out the significant problems with these changes than is shown toward any group of people identity politics claims to be defending from hostility.

[rustled]

It is ludicrous to think that transgender "women" could be allowed in a women's shelter.

Yes indeed.

How far will we go?

[mexi cali]

Why should they have to adapt to society, but not society also adapt them? hypothetically of course.

I get your point. I think though that the vast, vast majority of society simply don't support this because it is an unreachable destination and the thought itself is untenable.

If the world at large holds a personal religion of their choice as their sanctuary and they conduct their lives by the word of their god, the notion that this same god has gotten it wrong as often as the numbers suggest is beyond reason.

I dislike the saying "majority rules" but it is the measure and as long as that is true, the inclusivity train will never to any meaningful degree, stop at this particular station.