Westside Naming Referendum

cpt64
Board Meister
Posts: 577
Joined: Jun 17th, 2007, 1:35 pm

Re: Westside Naming Referendum

Post by cpt64 »

I can see it now. Let's just assume that all of the incumbents are elected. Some of them have a questionable track record on the naming issue. The votes on the naming issue are tallied and Westbank gets the nod with the slimmest of margins. Our council will follow through with their " first past the post " pledge and we'll be stuck with Westbank. However, change it up a little and West Kelowna gets the nod with the slimmest of margins. Any bets Council will back track and then acknowledge the ballot was flawed and come with an excuse to keep Westside until we vote on it all over again?

This ballot is flawed due to it's design because it doesn't hold all names to the same standard. The flaw must be acknowledged going in to the vote so we all know how it will be dealt with if none of the choices gets 50%+1.
cpt64
Board Meister
Posts: 577
Joined: Jun 17th, 2007, 1:35 pm

Re: Westside Naming Referendum

Post by cpt64 »

At the very least, each vote for " No " in Question 1, must have the same weight as each vote in Question 2. That would put Westside on equal terms with the other four choices in Question 2. After that, a one on one between the top two would be the ideal solution to finally determine a name with the majority of support. I agree with canadman. It will cost more money, but it will be money well spent in the long run.

And if that's the route that Council decides on, I find it very sad and ironic that had we kept the TNC ballot, the one on one vote could have been between a new name and an existing name, with the ultimate winner truly undeniable and would have resulted in a truly unified community.
parachute
Generalissimo Postalot
Posts: 828
Joined: Feb 17th, 2008, 2:08 pm

Re: Westside Naming Referendum

Post by parachute »

Hello cpt64: The idea that you or canadman could get some of the old guard councilors to acknowledge how they might deal with the results of the flawed ballot may be a good idea but the chances of that happening are slim to none. The District of Westside home page notes that the next council meeting will be on Monday, December 1, two weeks after the election.

While you wasting your time trying to get a commitment from those councilors why don’t you also ask them what they think would be the percentage results if the following simple question was on the ballot for 30,000 people to vote yes or no?

Would you like the official name of our municipality to be "WESTBANK DISTRICT MUNICIPALITY"?
Yes __
No __

Also, while I am on a roll?? Why not ask Elva Webber how many people who live in Casa Loma think that the boundary of WESTBANK included their area? And repeat that question changing Casa Loma to: Lakeview Heights, Shannon Lake, Glen Rosa, Smith Creek, West Kelowna Heights, etc.

Just because some residents (over the last 100 years) said to themselves and their immediate friends: “Westbank extends from here to here!” does not mean that everyone who had (over the last 100 years) a different opinion was wrong and Elva was right!
User avatar
canadman
Generalissimo Postalot
Posts: 823
Joined: Jun 18th, 2005, 11:22 am

Re: Westside Naming Referendum

Post by canadman »

parachute you are absolutely right.

As I see it there are two words that are significant here - consider and official.

The pioneers and families who settled in the area 'considered' the whole area Westbank. Like me buying a home in the middle of nowhere and 'considering' my land to extend to a point beyond that which I actually owned.

I don't doubt Mrs. Webber and others 'considered' all of the Westside to be Westbank. Much as those who moved here after the first settlers considered their land to be Lakeview Heights, or West kelowna or Rose Valley, etc...

One can consider whatever they wish but it does not make it officially so, much like those who take proprietary ownership of the Westside, despite having had opportunities to attempt to officially designate it as such in the past.

Then there is the word official.

There was never an 'official' designation for Westbank. I have phoned Victoria and nobody there has any evidence that there was ever an 'official' boundary designation for Westbank that extends throughout the Westside.

All those who argue facts on here and that it was a fact that the original families here considered the whole area to be Westbank is deceiving. It is a fact that some considered this to be so but it is also a fact that it was never officially so.
"The road to hell is paved with concrete."
User avatar
Fancy
Insanely Prolific
Posts: 59589
Joined: Apr 15th, 2006, 6:23 pm

Re: Westside Naming Referendum

Post by Fancy »

And repeat that question changing Casa Loma to: Lakeview Heights, Shannon Lake, Glen Rosa, Smith Creek, West Kelowna Heights
The area of Shannon Lake and Smith Creek have been considered part of Westbank.
Truths can be backed up by facts - do you have any?
Fancy this, Fancy that and by the way, T*t for Tat
User avatar
canadman
Generalissimo Postalot
Posts: 823
Joined: Jun 18th, 2005, 11:22 am

Re: Westside Naming Referendum

Post by canadman »

Considered... there's that word again.
"The road to hell is paved with concrete."
User avatar
angusog
Übergod
Posts: 1141
Joined: Jun 17th, 2007, 9:58 pm

Re: Westside Naming Referendum

Post by angusog »

It is an indisputable fact that the same people have hijacked almost every thread in this forum to spread their opinions and gang up on anyone who dares question their biased view. Democracy to these people is fine if it suits their purpose but listen to the constant whinging if it doesn't. Does the cheerleading by this same group lend credence to their claims, or does it confirm their devious intent? I refuse to comment on any of their balderdash as it belongs in the playground and merits no consideration. The winner will be chosen next week by the electorate despite the machinations and clandestine angles of this self interest group!. :smt023
Jo
Slot 16
Posts: 22663
Joined: Nov 27th, 2004, 12:33 pm

Re: Westside Naming Referendum

Post by Jo »

angusog wrote:It is an indisputable fact that the same people have hijacked almost every thread in this forum to spread their opinions and gang up on anyone who dares question their biased view.


Actually, BOTH sides have been guilty of doing that, angusog.
User avatar
angusog
Übergod
Posts: 1141
Joined: Jun 17th, 2007, 9:58 pm

Re: Westside Naming Referendum

Post by angusog »

canadman wrote:Considered... there's that word again.


Yes and the people will consider the options before voting and make up their own minds! :smt023
User avatar
angusog
Übergod
Posts: 1141
Joined: Jun 17th, 2007, 9:58 pm

Re: Westside Naming Referendum

Post by angusog »

Jo wrote:
angusog wrote:It is an indisputable fact that the same people have hijacked almost every thread in this forum to spread their opinions and gang up on anyone who dares question their biased view.


Actually, BOTH sides have been guilty of doing that, angusog.


Not on every thread Jo! And the gang size has a definite bearing. I know it's not against the rules but this mob mentality is one sided in this case and has been since before the referendum on incorporation. It's the same people who are doing this. :smt023
User avatar
canadman
Generalissimo Postalot
Posts: 823
Joined: Jun 18th, 2005, 11:22 am

Re: Westside Naming Referendum

Post by canadman »

Lol... talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
"The road to hell is paved with concrete."
Ranger66
Grand Pooh-bah
Posts: 2337
Joined: Jul 5th, 2007, 11:42 am

Re: Westside Naming Referendum

Post by Ranger66 »

‘It is an indisputable fact that the same people have hijacked almost every thread in this forum to spread their opinions and gang up on anyone who dares question their biased view. Democracy to these people is fine if it suits their purpose but listen to the constant whinging if it doesn't. Does the cheerleading by this same group lend credence to their claims, or does it confirm their devious intent? I refuse to comment on any of their balderdash as it belongs in the playground and merits no consideration. The winner will be chosen next week by the electorate despite the machinations and clandestine angles of this self interest group!.”

Your right the People for Westbank group can be very hard to deal with.
To cool to live, to smart to die or no good deed should go unpunished
User avatar
Bestside
Guru
Posts: 5897
Joined: Apr 29th, 2007, 1:03 am

Re: Westside Naming Referendum

Post by Bestside »

Bestside wrote:
Jim Dixon wrote:
parachute wrote:..........
How many posters on castanet – or ever better: how many residents of the Westside believe the presently worded naming questionnaire is flawed?


We can blame Victoria. When the governance committee worked on this same thing for the referendum, I brought up how the decision to incorporate or amalgamate could be made by 26% of the voters. There was a lot of debate over this but Victoria approves the ballots. The point Victoria made clear is that, and in our case now, Westside IS the name of our municipality. You can't make it an option along with the rest, you must make it a choice to keep it or change it. Just like the referendum ballot asked if we wanted change and if there was change, which option would we choose. The same is being applied here, almost, because the results are non-binding and council can do whatever.

Apparently we can't blame Victoria. This was covered before and... because it is only an opinion poll, and is not a binding vote, the ballot can be made up however the council dictates or whatever the council approves as recommended to them. There are no rules to cover a simple opinion poll.

"The ballot is not a referendum, but merely an opinion poll designed to give the new Westside Council enough data to gauge public opinion."

Jim Dixon wrote:
parachute wrote:Basing the name choice on the results of a non-binding questionnaire that is flawed is STUPID in my opinion.


Agreed. Since council can simply reject the whole outcome of the naming and leave it as it is, or they can do what Lake Country did and just pick a name and that will be that. The democratic process is there in spirit alone. Too bad.
Jim

Agreed as well... because the ballot is flawed and STUPID.
Question No. 1 is Findlater's. Simply put he does not know the rules for an opinion poll ballot or he was designing the ballot to change the agenda in mid-stream. The majority of Council, with the exception of Neis and Milsom, are now on record that the opinion poll ballot is a binding referendum with first past the post? A very good presentation to the Ministry outlining council's methods of not being straight with the electorate could well overturn the result if it is not to retain "Westside".
But what the hey... it is what it is...

Further to this discussion... Council has went public with "the first past the post" decision.
Also, voting has already started so the opportunity for council to "redeem themselves" in a meeting is past.

The die is cast... we have been misled on the ballot and a good presentation to the Ministry would have a good chance of over turning a result that did not achieve 50% +1. Failing that a court challenge would be worthwhile.

This also gives more incentive to go with your original choice of name. There is no need to participate in this destructive Westbank vs. West Kelowna abortion / conflict of personalities if you are truly interested in choosing a name that uniquely identifies our municipality, works towards unification, does not create confusion with a neighbour, and encourages existing communities to flourish with their true history, rather than feeling they have to create a fraudulent history when they don't have much of a clue as to what their history of place really is.
"Conservatives have whipped themselves into spasms of outrage and despair that block all strategic thinking" - David Frum
User avatar
Bestside
Guru
Posts: 5897
Joined: Apr 29th, 2007, 1:03 am

Re: Westside Naming Referendum

Post by Bestside »

angusog wrote:
Jo wrote:
angusog wrote:It is an indisputable fact that the same people have hijacked almost every thread in this forum to spread their opinions and gang up on anyone who dares question their biased view.


Actually, BOTH sides have been guilty of doing that, angusog.


Not on every thread Jo! And the gang size has a definite bearing. I know it's not against the rules but this mob mentality is one sided in this case and has been since before the referendum on incorporation. It's the same people who are doing this. :smt023

I will have to side with Angusog on this one to a small extent.

After the Westbank Cabal succeeded in getting Findlater to dissolve a NC ballot that had Westbank and West Kelowna on it,
and substitute it for another ballot that had Westbank and West Kelowna on it...
the Westbank Cabal took a much deserved rest.
This gave the threads a rest from their narrow views except for their comments that "Council needed to do that to put Westbank on the ballot".

Of course this action spawned the West Kelowna Cabal...
"Conservatives have whipped themselves into spasms of outrage and despair that block all strategic thinking" - David Frum
occasional thoughts
Grand Pooh-bah
Posts: 2744
Joined: Sep 6th, 2006, 11:07 pm

Re: Westside Naming Referendum

Post by occasional thoughts »

I'm beginning to think that one of the four choices will obtain 50% plus 1 and I don't think it will be the choice based on what Bestside so deliciously describes as "fraudulent history". However, it will all depend on who votes on November 15. As we know from all the bleating and handwringing after the governance referendum last year, the results in our system are based on who votes, not who had an opinion (but didn't bother voting).

Return to “Westside”