I'm an Atheist

[Mr Danksworth]

Telling them to be rational will only compound their misery.

Oh, that's gooood.

[zzontar]

And you are the king of respect, there mr. zontar. You would never insult anyone, or disagree with them(as long as they believe what you do). What exactly is 'respecting the argument" anyway? If I have an opposing view, why should I respect your arguments if my job is to argue against yours? I wouldn't be able to say anything, out of respect.

I'm not surprised you're wondering what respecting an argument is... for starters, saying the other side's beliefs are delusional or fantasy would be disrespectful, especially if you have no proof on your side as to how it began. Feel free to show as many posts as you want from me or any other theist for that matter that say an atheist's belief is delusional or likewise.

There's nothing wrong with disagreeing, discussions involve a lot of disagreement and point-counterpoint, which reminds me... here it is for the third time and you've brought it up before so you might as well stop running and reply.

zzontar wrote:
soulra wrote:
What is better? Doing something good for the sake of good, or doing good out of fear of eternal torment? Who would be the more 'moral' human? If one of your children committed a crime would you lock them in the basement and torture them for eternity? No? Then you are more moral than your supposed 'god'.


Assuming religious people are only good because of the fear of hell would be like saying the only reason atheists aren't all criminals is because they don't want to go to jail. Soulra, do you think we should have police, laws, and jails... if so why? After all, shouldn't people just be good just because?

[zzontar]

More pompous egotism... the religious views are fantasy while the atheists have all the facts, like the universe started because it did. Atheists should stop pretending they respect the arguments... when did they start?

You'll like this one then, zzontar.

PATRICK BATESON
..... If you live comfortably and are surrounded by good friends and endless opportunities for a stimulating and interesting life, then your need for belief in an omniscient and all-caring being is not great. But if you have a wretched life with nothing to be happy about, you may well want something to cling onto, some conviction that you can look forward to conditions that are never likely to exist in the real world.

It seems staggeringly insensitive to tell such people that they are fooling themselves and that, since they only have one life, they should get out there should enjoy it. No amount of science is going to help them to perceive the world in a way that is helpful to them. Science can be applied to relieving the conditions that oppress them—but that is a different matter. Telling them to be rational will only compound their misery.

Ah, the religious all have wretched lives and the atheists have interesting lives and good friends... you actually eat this stuff up, don't you?

[Born_again]

Sorry, did someone say something? I was chewing on my morning bowl of organic Alpha Soundbites....... mmmmm......oh yeh!.......tastes sooooooo good!!

[Mr Danksworth]

here it is for the third time and you've brought it up before so you might as well stop running and reply.

I thought i had. Must have hit preview instead of submit. So here it is.

zzontar wrote:
soulra wrote:
What is better? Doing something good for the sake of good, or doing good out of fear of eternal torment? Who would be the more 'moral' human? If one of your children committed a crime would you lock them in the basement and torture them for eternity? No? Then you are more moral than your supposed 'god'.


Assuming religious people are only good because of the fear of hell would be like saying the only reason atheists aren't all criminals is because they don't want to go to jail. Soulra, do you think we should have police, laws, and jails... if so why? After all, shouldn't people just be good just because?

For one i never said believers only do good out of fear. But it is a part of their programming.
I'm all for laws and police. But i think the root cause of crime is under-education and poverty. Take care of those and crime goes down, not as much need for the police.

Now, can you answer the question I started with?

[zzontar]

It's better to do something just to be good instead of out of fear, whether it be God or the law, but in reality, some people need one or the other or both to keep from swaying.

[kgcayenne]

It's better to do something just to be good instead of out of fear, whether it be God or the law, but in reality, some people need one or the other or both to keep from swaying.

Kind of like how during Spring, Summer, & Fall people for the most part avoid being bugged by picking up their dog's poop off the sidewalks; yet during winter when the snow hides it, a significant number just leave it there to become a cumulative stinky, slimy, gross mess when we thaw? Whereas others have enough respect to pick it up at all times.

People are like that.

As soon as no one is looking, some take liberties while others remain genuine... nothing has changed.

[Nebula]

I don't believe the Christian bible will be any help in keeping people on course with kc's example. "Thou shalt not leave dog crap on the ground," isn't one of the commandments.

[kgcayenne]

LOL Dave.

Pick up poop to avoid social scorn = Poop gets picked up, good

Leave poop behind because no one will know = selfish laziness, bad

Pick up poop because of being respectful by nature regardless of who may be watching = Poop gets picked up, good

Notice the only BAD result comes from the person who is giving in to selfishness on account of no one being able to assign guilt.

So yes, some people need the guidance. But it should be borne out of a healthy fear, fear of natural, reasonable consequences. Not some man made lie in an effort to demoralize and control. Again, God is unfairly taking the heat for mankind's stupidity.

[sleepdeprived]

So we should believe in a god for the same reasons we should pick up our dogs poo?

My head hurts.

[kgcayenne]

Illustrations not your forte? Here's a recap:

"For one i never said believers only do good out of fear. But it is a part of their programming."

"It's better to do something just to be good instead of out of fear, whether it be God or the law, but in reality, some people need one or the other or both to keep from swaying."

"As soon as no one is looking, some take liberties while others remain genuine... ...So yes, some people need the guidance."

[Nebula]

So we should believe in a god for the same reasons we should pick up our dogs poo?
My head hurts.

No, no, no. Cross God or step in what a dog leaves behind, either way you're in sh*t.

[kgcayenne]

So we should believe in a god for the same reasons we should pick up our dogs poo?
My head hurts.

No, no, no. Cross God or step in what a dog leaves behind, either way you're in sh*t.

[sleepdeprived]

Clearly, I'm as dumb as a bag of hammers but you have to admit it's an interesting choice of metaphors.

[kgcayenne]

Clearly, I'm as dumb as a bag of hammers but you have to admit it's an interesting choice of metaphors.

Gotta lighten things up once in a while among this crowd.