More NDP Lunacy. $ 10 Billion on Bonds?

[Nicklan]

My other question is, if these ferries have been used successfully on the east coast, why could they not have been used successfully here? Just wondering.

That is a really good question. Maybe Nicklan could answer that one. Also would be interesting to learn where on the 'East Coast these use these types of ferries.

They run between Yarmouth,NS and Portland in the USA. The fast cats were sold by Richie Bros could have been , how ever my point is that they should have never been put up for sale in the first place, your point about them not being suitable to run here is of no value what so ever as they are still using atleast one of them for the 2010 games.

[Merry]

I must admit that if they're being used successfully on the Yarmouth-Portland route, it does seem strange that we couldn't have made them work here. I have to wonder if we WERE fed a bit of a line on this one. Thoughts, anyone?

[Al Czervic]

I must admit that if they're being used successfully on the Yarmouth-Portland route, it does seem strange that we couldn't have made them work here. I have to wonder if we WERE fed a bit of a line on this one. Thoughts, anyone?

I suppose the question to be asked is why wouldn’t the Washington Marine Group use them ? The Washington Marine Group will entertain offers on them; why is nobody trying to buy them ?

[Nicklan]

I must admit that if they're being used successfully on the Yarmouth-Portland route, it does seem strange that we couldn't have made them work here. I have to wonder if we WERE fed a bit of a line on this one. Thoughts, anyone?

I suppose the question to be asked is why wouldn’t the Washington Marine Group use them ? The Washington Marine Group will entertain offers on them; why is nobody trying to buy them ?

That is not true either,
I met with the CEO of the Washington group,
I don't believe they really want to sell them, why I don't know

[Nicklan]

I must admit that if they're being used successfully on the Yarmouth-Portland route, it does seem strange that we couldn't have made them work here. I have to wonder if we WERE fed a bit of a line on this one. Thoughts, anyone?

I suppose the question to be asked is why wouldn’t the Washington Marine Group use them ? The Washington Marine Group will entertain offers on them; why is nobody trying to buy them ?

That is not true either,
I met with the CEO of the Washington group,
I don't believe they really want to sell them, why I don't know

Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that Washington Group don't even build their own ships, like the fleet of Container ships they have.

[Nicklan]

I must admit that if they're being used successfully on the Yarmouth-Portland route, it does seem strange that we couldn't have made them work here. I have to wonder if we WERE fed a bit of a line on this one. Thoughts, anyone?

I suppose the question to be asked is why wouldn’t the Washington Marine Group use them ? The Washington Marine Group will entertain offers on them; why is nobody trying to buy them ?

We do not have a single world competiter in Shipbuilding in Canada not one, I wanted to build a modern world class shipyard, steel plants and steelworks here in BC. Gordo has no interest what so ever, the liberals are all service people who do not even understand manufacturing or the automation that is used in these industries today. For example the largest shipyard by sale in the world in a South Korean yard with about 25,000 people working in it and was built during the 1970's while today I can build a yard that can compete with this yard that will employ less then 5000 and is fully automated. The Automated yard can actully produce a lot more then them and can operate 24/7, as they run mainly day shift. The Koreans for example have to import all of there raw materials and energy while we have it all available here. The modern yards competitive advantages are energy and raw materials not labor.

[fluffy]

Did it ever occur to you that maybe they thought they could get more money in the open auction format? Any time you make a decision to place an item up for auction you take some risk.

I thought I said just that, sorry if I muddled the point.

....obviously the government thought they could do better than $60 million and it just didn't turn out that way.

[Nicklan]

Did it ever occur to you that maybe they thought they could get more money in the open auction format? Any time you make a decision to place an item up for auction you take some risk.

I thought I said just that, sorry if I muddled the point.

....obviously the government thought they could do better than $60 million and it just didn't turn out that way.

The only thing taht Gordo and his lieing Liberal thought was that by not using the Fast Cats and claiming they were no good would make the NDP look bad, and it did untill the TRUTH Started getting out, that Gordo threw away 1 billion dollar investment by the people of British Columbia just to gain votes and it was and still is a complete LIE !

As I have said many times I have inspected those ships and their is nothing wrong with them other then the LIBERAL Government. The 700 million Gordo spent on new double ended barges to replace them with could have gone to our medical system and saved a few lives lost for no reason other then no money to keep the hospitals open.

[fluffy]

The Fast-Cats' shortcomings were too well documented for that claim to be taken seriously. I do agree however, that the Campbell Liberals took advantage of the situation after the fact to push their own agenda, but it's pretty plain that the Clark NDPs didn't do their homework beforehand. As a seafaring craft the Fats-Ctas may find some use somewhere, but they were supposed to do the job here faster and cheaper than the existing fleet and they fell miserably short of that goal. The two of the three built that actually made it into service did so for less than a year, before their expense and unreliability left them permanently sidelined.

[Al Czervic]

The only thing taht Gordo and his lieing Liberal thought was that by not using the Fast Cats and claiming they were no good would make the NDP look bad, and it did untill the TRUTH Started getting out, that Gordo threw away 1 billion dollar investment by the people of British Columbia just to gain votes and it was and still is a complete LIE !

As I have said many times I have inspected those ships and their is nothing wrong with them other then the LIBERAL Government. The 700 million Gordo spent on new double ended barges to replace them with could have gone to our medical system and saved a few lives lost for no reason other then no money to keep the hospitals open.

Here is the real truth Nicklan.....

Fuel Consumption
Gas-Guzzlers. The PacifiCats burn more than twice the amount of diesel fuel per passenger per trip than any of the other ferries in the fleet. In order to optimize speed, they had to be refueled in the middle of the day so they didn't have to sail with full tanks. This large fuel consumption was also a concern in regards to air and water pollution in the Georgia Strait Basin.

Engines
Eats Gas and Logs. Not only do the PacifiCat engines consume copious amounts of gas, but the water intakes for the water jet propulsion have an appetite for logs as well. BC's local waters are full of stray logs and wood from the lumber industry along the coast and the flotsam has been a problem, albeit comparatively minor (to the other problems), for the fast ferries.

Speed
FatCats Save 10 Minutes. For several reasons, the PacifiCats are not very much faster than conventional vessels on the Departure Bay - Horseshoe Bay route. First of all, the PacifiCats are not double-enders and have to turn around at each end of every other trip in order to load/unload. Secondly, the route is simply not long enough to get the full benefit of the FastCats speed advantage. Bob Ward, a well known fast ferry critic rightly pointed out that "[i]t's like trying to run the Concord between Victoria and Vancouver" (Vancouver Sun, February 7, 1996, B5.). This is complicated even more by the wake problem (below) which required the PacifiCats to slow down when not in open waters.

Wake
FastCat Tsunamis. One of the major and seemingly unforeseen problems was discovered during the sea trials of the PacifiCat Explorer. The wake left behind by these ships was blamed for considerable damage to docks and marinas along the shores near where the PacifiCats operated. Large waves could even be seen at Point Grey, some 10 kilometers from the passing ferries. A report was published on this problem in 2000 and recommendations were made including slowing the ferries down when not in open seas to reduce the wake.

Size
Little Kittens. It was planned that the fast ferries would be able to make more trips daily because of their speed and make up for their smaller size. The PacifiCats have a smaller capacity than the conventional vessels they were built to replace. For example, the C-class ship, Queen of Oak Bay, can carry 362 vehicles and 1,442 passengers to the PacifiCat Explorer's 250 cars and 1000 passengers. Not faster, not bigger, and a lot more costly to operate. The PacifiCats were hoped to be the answer to congestion at Horseshoe Bay and Departure Bay ferry terminals and prevent the need of expanding them. Both terminals are now in the process of being expanded.

Vehicle Capacity
No Trucks Allowed. Because of weight restrictions and size, the PacifiCats are not able to carry large trucks or campers and only 2 buses at a time. Truck traffic was to be fully routed through the Tsawwassen - Duke Point (Nanaimo) run, away from Horseshoe Bay and its wealthy outspoken residents. Although BC Ferries has always encouraged trucks to use the southern route since it was created in 1990. With the PacifiCats, BC Ferries could no longer boast "if it's licensed for the road, it can be driven onto our ferries" (Choice Sailings to Victoria and Vancouver Island, BC Ferries, pamphlet).

Passenger Capacity
All Hands on Deck. Unlike the conventional ferries, because of international fast ferry regulations, passengers are not allowed to remain on the car decks during the voyage. Regulations also require them to play an annoying video at the beginning of each trip about ship safety. Because of the crowded passenger area, BC Ferries requested that no bulky carry-on luggage be brought on board with walk on passengers (have it put in the luggage van instead); this is not a problem on the roomy conventional vessels. To many passengers, the passenger facilities on board the PacifiCats are crowded and uncomfortable with inadequate space on the outer deck. It would seem that convenience and comfort were sacrificed for speed.

[Nicklan]

The only thing taht Gordo and his lieing Liberal thought was that by not using the Fast Cats and claiming they were no good would make the NDP look bad, and it did untill the TRUTH Started getting out, that Gordo threw away 1 billion dollar investment by the people of British Columbia just to gain votes and it was and still is a complete LIE !

As I have said many times I have inspected those ships and their is nothing wrong with them other then the LIBERAL Government. The 700 million Gordo spent on new double ended barges to replace them with could have gone to our medical system and saved a few lives lost for no reason other then no money to keep the hospitals open.

Here is the real truth Nicklan.....

Fuel Consumption
Gas-Guzzlers. The PacifiCats burn more than twice the amount of diesel fuel per passenger per trip than any of the other ferries in the fleet. In order to optimize speed, they had to be refueled in the middle of the day so they didn't have to sail with full tanks. This large fuel consumption was also a concern in regards to air and water pollution in the Georgia Strait Basin.

Engines
Eats Gas and Logs. Not only do the PacifiCat engines consume copious amounts of gas, but the water intakes for the water jet propulsion have an appetite for logs as well. BC's local waters are full of stray logs and wood from the lumber industry along the coast and the flotsam has been a problem, albeit comparatively minor (to the other problems), for the fast ferries.

Speed
FatCats Save 10 Minutes. For several reasons, the PacifiCats are not very much faster than conventional vessels on the Departure Bay - Horseshoe Bay route. First of all, the PacifiCats are not double-enders and have to turn around at each end of every other trip in order to load/unload. Secondly, the route is simply not long enough to get the full benefit of the FastCats speed advantage. Bob Ward, a well known fast ferry critic rightly pointed out that "[i]t's like trying to run the Concord between Victoria and Vancouver" (Vancouver Sun, February 7, 1996, B5.). This is complicated even more by the wake problem (below) which required the PacifiCats to slow down when not in open waters.

Wake
FastCat Tsunamis. One of the major and seemingly unforeseen problems was discovered during the sea trials of the PacifiCat Explorer. The wake left behind by these ships was blamed for considerable damage to docks and marinas along the shores near where the PacifiCats operated. Large waves could even be seen at Point Grey, some 10 kilometers from the passing ferries. A report was published on this problem in 2000 and recommendations were made including slowing the ferries down when not in open seas to reduce the wake.

Size
Little Kittens. It was planned that the fast ferries would be able to make more trips daily because of their speed and make up for their smaller size. The PacifiCats have a smaller capacity than the conventional vessels they were built to replace. For example, the C-class ship, Queen of Oak Bay, can carry 362 vehicles and 1,442 passengers to the PacifiCat Explorer's 250 cars and 1000 passengers. Not faster, not bigger, and a lot more costly to operate. The PacifiCats were hoped to be the answer to congestion at Horseshoe Bay and Departure Bay ferry terminals and prevent the need of expanding them. Both terminals are now in the process of being expanded.

Vehicle Capacity
No Trucks Allowed. Because of weight restrictions and size, the PacifiCats are not able to carry large trucks or campers and only 2 buses at a time. Truck traffic was to be fully routed through the Tsawwassen - Duke Point (Nanaimo) run, away from Horseshoe Bay and its wealthy outspoken residents. Although BC Ferries has always encouraged trucks to use the southern route since it was created in 1990. With the PacifiCats, BC Ferries could no longer boast "if it's licensed for the road, it can be driven onto our ferries" (Choice Sailings to Victoria and Vancouver Island, BC Ferries, pamphlet).

Passenger Capacity
All Hands on Deck. Unlike the conventional ferries, because of international fast ferry regulations, passengers are not allowed to remain on the car decks during the voyage. Regulations also require them to play an annoying video at the beginning of each trip about ship safety. Because of the crowded passenger area, BC Ferries requested that no bulky carry-on luggage be brought on board with walk on passengers (have it put in the luggage van instead); this is not a problem on the roomy conventional vessels. To many passengers, the passenger facilities on board the PacifiCats are crowded and uncomfortable with inadequate space on the outer deck. It would seem that convenience and comfort were sacrificed for speed.

The BullS**t meter is off the screen
Ferry Tales
More Ferry Tales
No wonder Gordo and his gang get away with so much, with people like you who will believe anything they feed you,
Fast Cats are operating around the world near 100 ships atleast none have any problems as listed here, how is it that only Gordo's Gangsters have these problems, It must be all the rest of the WORLD That IS Wrong Not The Lieing Cheating Gordo and hs Liberal Gangsters.
That is what you are trying to say !

[fluffy]

And who's feeding you your information?

[Nicklan]

And who's feeding you your information?

No One, like i said it is First hand

[Al Czervic]

The only thing taht Gordo and his lieing Liberal thought was that by not using the Fast Cats and claiming they were no good would make the NDP look bad, and it did untill the TRUTH Started getting out, that Gordo threw away 1 billion dollar investment by the people of British Columbia just to gain votes and it was and still is a complete LIE !

As I have said many times I have inspected those ships and their is nothing wrong with them other then the LIBERAL Government. The 700 million Gordo spent on new double ended barges to replace them with could have gone to our medical system and saved a few lives lost for no reason other then no money to keep the hospitals open.

Here is the real truth Nicklan.....

Fuel Consumption
Gas-Guzzlers. The PacifiCats burn more than twice the amount of diesel fuel per passenger per trip than any of the other ferries in the fleet. In order to optimize speed, they had to be refueled in the middle of the day so they didn't have to sail with full tanks. This large fuel consumption was also a concern in regards to air and water pollution in the Georgia Strait Basin.

Engines
Eats Gas and Logs. Not only do the PacifiCat engines consume copious amounts of gas, but the water intakes for the water jet propulsion have an appetite for logs as well. BC's local waters are full of stray logs and wood from the lumber industry along the coast and the flotsam has been a problem, albeit comparatively minor (to the other problems), for the fast ferries.

Speed
FatCats Save 10 Minutes. For several reasons, the PacifiCats are not very much faster than conventional vessels on the Departure Bay - Horseshoe Bay route. First of all, the PacifiCats are not double-enders and have to turn around at each end of every other trip in order to load/unload. Secondly, the route is simply not long enough to get the full benefit of the FastCats speed advantage. Bob Ward, a well known fast ferry critic rightly pointed out that "[i]t's like trying to run the Concord between Victoria and Vancouver" (Vancouver Sun, February 7, 1996, B5.). This is complicated even more by the wake problem (below) which required the PacifiCats to slow down when not in open waters.

Wake
FastCat Tsunamis. One of the major and seemingly unforeseen problems was discovered during the sea trials of the PacifiCat Explorer. The wake left behind by these ships was blamed for considerable damage to docks and marinas along the shores near where the PacifiCats operated. Large waves could even be seen at Point Grey, some 10 kilometers from the passing ferries. A report was published on this problem in 2000 and recommendations were made including slowing the ferries down when not in open seas to reduce the wake.

Size
Little Kittens. It was planned that the fast ferries would be able to make more trips daily because of their speed and make up for their smaller size. The PacifiCats have a smaller capacity than the conventional vessels they were built to replace. For example, the C-class ship, Queen of Oak Bay, can carry 362 vehicles and 1,442 passengers to the PacifiCat Explorer's 250 cars and 1000 passengers. Not faster, not bigger, and a lot more costly to operate. The PacifiCats were hoped to be the answer to congestion at Horseshoe Bay and Departure Bay ferry terminals and prevent the need of expanding them. Both terminals are now in the process of being expanded.

Vehicle Capacity
No Trucks Allowed. Because of weight restrictions and size, the PacifiCats are not able to carry large trucks or campers and only 2 buses at a time. Truck traffic was to be fully routed through the Tsawwassen - Duke Point (Nanaimo) run, away from Horseshoe Bay and its wealthy outspoken residents. Although BC Ferries has always encouraged trucks to use the southern route since it was created in 1990. With the PacifiCats, BC Ferries could no longer boast "if it's licensed for the road, it can be driven onto our ferries" (Choice Sailings to Victoria and Vancouver Island, BC Ferries, pamphlet).

Passenger Capacity
All Hands on Deck. Unlike the conventional ferries, because of international fast ferry regulations, passengers are not allowed to remain on the car decks during the voyage. Regulations also require them to play an annoying video at the beginning of each trip about ship safety. Because of the crowded passenger area, BC Ferries requested that no bulky carry-on luggage be brought on board with walk on passengers (have it put in the luggage van instead); this is not a problem on the roomy conventional vessels. To many passengers, the passenger facilities on board the PacifiCats are crowded and uncomfortable with inadequate space on the outer deck. It would seem that convenience and comfort were sacrificed for speed.

The BullS**t meter is off the screen
Ferry Tales
More Ferry Tales
No wonder Gordo and his gang get away with so much, with people like you who will believe anything they feed you,
Fast Cats are operating around the world near 100 ships atleast none have any problems as listed here, how is it that only Gordo's Gangsters have these problems, It must be all the rest of the WORLD That IS Wrong Not The Lieing Cheating Gordo and hs Liberal Gangsters.
That is what you are trying to say !

None of that information came from the government. All of it is true. Yes, “Fast Cat’s” do operate in other parts of the word; absolutely true. However not THESE fast cat’s and not on these relatively short runs.

How can you possibly deny established and well documented facts? Are you next going to deny that these ended up being built seriously overweight as well? I didn’t even mention that point.

[Nicklan]

The only thing taht Gordo and his lieing Liberal thought was that by not using the Fast Cats and claiming they were no good would make the NDP look bad, and it did untill the TRUTH Started getting out, that Gordo threw away 1 billion dollar investment by the people of British Columbia just to gain votes and it was and still is a complete LIE !

As I have said many times I have inspected those ships and their is nothing wrong with them other then the LIBERAL Government. The 700 million Gordo spent on new double ended barges to replace them with could have gone to our medical system and saved a few lives lost for no reason other then no money to keep the hospitals open.

Here is the real truth Nicklan.....

Fuel Consumption
Gas-Guzzlers. The PacifiCats burn more than twice the amount of diesel fuel per passenger per trip than any of the other ferries in the fleet. In order to optimize speed, they had to be refueled in the middle of the day so they didn't have to sail with full tanks. This large fuel consumption was also a concern in regards to air and water pollution in the Georgia Strait Basin.

Engines
Eats Gas and Logs. Not only do the PacifiCat engines consume copious amounts of gas, but the water intakes for the water jet propulsion have an appetite for logs as well. BC's local waters are full of stray logs and wood from the lumber industry along the coast and the flotsam has been a problem, albeit comparatively minor (to the other problems), for the fast ferries.

Speed
FatCats Save 10 Minutes. For several reasons, the PacifiCats are not very much faster than conventional vessels on the Departure Bay - Horseshoe Bay route. First of all, the PacifiCats are not double-enders and have to turn around at each end of every other trip in order to load/unload. Secondly, the route is simply not long enough to get the full benefit of the FastCats speed advantage. Bob Ward, a well known fast ferry critic rightly pointed out that "[i]t's like trying to run the Concord between Victoria and Vancouver" (Vancouver Sun, February 7, 1996, B5.). This is complicated even more by the wake problem (below) which required the PacifiCats to slow down when not in open waters.

Wake
FastCat Tsunamis. One of the major and seemingly unforeseen problems was discovered during the sea trials of the PacifiCat Explorer. The wake left behind by these ships was blamed for considerable damage to docks and marinas along the shores near where the PacifiCats operated. Large waves could even be seen at Point Grey, some 10 kilometers from the passing ferries. A report was published on this problem in 2000 and recommendations were made including slowing the ferries down when not in open seas to reduce the wake.

Size
Little Kittens. It was planned that the fast ferries would be able to make more trips daily because of their speed and make up for their smaller size. The PacifiCats have a smaller capacity than the conventional vessels they were built to replace. For example, the C-class ship, Queen of Oak Bay, can carry 362 vehicles and 1,442 passengers to the PacifiCat Explorer's 250 cars and 1000 passengers. Not faster, not bigger, and a lot more costly to operate. The PacifiCats were hoped to be the answer to congestion at Horseshoe Bay and Departure Bay ferry terminals and prevent the need of expanding them. Both terminals are now in the process of being expanded.

Vehicle Capacity
No Trucks Allowed. Because of weight restrictions and size, the PacifiCats are not able to carry large trucks or campers and only 2 buses at a time. Truck traffic was to be fully routed through the Tsawwassen - Duke Point (Nanaimo) run, away from Horseshoe Bay and its wealthy outspoken residents. Although BC Ferries has always encouraged trucks to use the southern route since it was created in 1990. With the PacifiCats, BC Ferries could no longer boast "if it's licensed for the road, it can be driven onto our ferries" (Choice Sailings to Victoria and Vancouver Island, BC Ferries, pamphlet).

Passenger Capacity
All Hands on Deck. Unlike the conventional ferries, because of international fast ferry regulations, passengers are not allowed to remain on the car decks during the voyage. Regulations also require them to play an annoying video at the beginning of each trip about ship safety. Because of the crowded passenger area, BC Ferries requested that no bulky carry-on luggage be brought on board with walk on passengers (have it put in the luggage van instead); this is not a problem on the roomy conventional vessels. To many passengers, the passenger facilities on board the PacifiCats are crowded and uncomfortable with inadequate space on the outer deck. It would seem that convenience and comfort were sacrificed for speed.

The BullS**t meter is off the screen
Ferry Tales
More Ferry Tales
No wonder Gordo and his gang get away with so much, with people like you who will believe anything they feed you,
Fast Cats are operating around the world near 100 ships atleast none have any problems as listed here, how is it that only Gordo's Gangsters have these problems, It must be all the rest of the WORLD That IS Wrong Not The Lieing Cheating Gordo and hs Liberal Gangsters.
That is what you are trying to say !

None of that information came from the government. All of it is true. Yes, “Fast Cat’s” do operate in other parts of the word; absolutely true. However not THESE fast cat’s and not on these relatively short runs.

How can you possibly deny established and well documented facts? Are you next going to deny that these ended up being built seriously overweight as well? I didn’t even mention that point.

These are the facts as provided by the same consultants that built and sold British Columbia the New Ships in Germany, not worth much.

Any thing that really is a fact is information that BC Ferries already knew, like buses and trucks for example
This is what 26 miles about what double the distance the fast cats operate in Hong Kong Harbor for example.

The time frame lets see the fast cats can run up to 38 knots about double the speed of the double ended barges. So as they have no trucks or buses to load anunload only cars they can also load and unload in half the time.
High speed does use more fuel, however if you slow them dowm they are better on fuel also, not to mention the much smaller crews needed.
What about the fact that investing the British Columbians Tax dollars in British Columbia instead of Germany also keeps that money here in BC.