Fabian Fascism, or Fabian Socialism. Do we have a choice?

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steven lloyd
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Re: Fabian Fascism, or Fabian Socialism. Do we have a choice?

Post by steven lloyd »

Queen K wrote:
steven lloyd wrote:
Queen K wrote:
There was Nabster, crying like a :heartsaplenty: and where were you? Slutting around in some other thread instead of showing up like a knight in shining armour to slay the irrascible Hello.


:129:


Fine, I take back "slutting around" but that doesn't change the fact you were out cruising other thread.


I have been accused of “slutting around” on more than one occasion during my younger years. At my age now, though, “cruising” is as close that kind of excitement as it gets.
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Re: Fabian Fascism, or Fabian Socialism. Do we have a choice?

Post by NAB »

steven lloyd wrote:
Queen K wrote:
steven lloyd wrote:
Queen K wrote:
There was Nabster, crying like a :heartsaplenty: and where were you? Slutting around in some other thread instead of showing up like a knight in shining armour to slay the irrascible Hello.


:129:


Fine, I take back "slutting around" but that doesn't change the fact you were out cruising other thread.


I have been accused of “slutting around” on more than one occasion during my younger years. At my age now, though, “cruising” is as close that kind of excitement as it gets.


Sooo, as to the topic?

Nab
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normaM
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Re: Fabian Fascism, or Fabian Socialism. Do we have a choice?

Post by normaM »

I tried it with a frog - he jumped when the water grew hot ( kinda like some do for Steve and Nab LOL)
We have no choice, we have met the enemy and it is us

Whatever happened to Fabian the 60's heartthrob?
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Re: Fabian Fascism, or Fabian Socialism. Do we have a choice?

Post by Tumult »

Image
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hellomynameis
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Re: Fabian Fascism, or Fabian Socialism. Do we have a choice?

Post by hellomynameis »

Nabcom wrote:
steven lloyd wrote:
Queen K wrote:
steven lloyd wrote:
Queen K wrote:
There was Nabster, crying like a :heartsaplenty: and where were you? Slutting around in some other thread instead of showing up like a knight in shining armour to slay the irrascible Hello.


:129:


Fine, I take back "slutting around" but that doesn't change the fact you were out cruising other thread.


I have been accused of “slutting around” on more than one occasion during my younger years. At my age now, though, “cruising” is as close that kind of excitement as it gets.


Sooo, as to the topic?

Nab


Oh stop whining, this is all your fault!

Besides, if anyone has the justification to to be an 'on topic' Nazi, its me. You just aborted some unquoted quote into threadistence for your boy toy, I'm the one that wanted to talk about the topic. N/m the "spot on" tea totalling tinfoil army that appeared out of nowhere, they/he doesn't count. Do we have a choice! You had a choice and I believe it went down like this: promising young school girl had a misguided night, verto in trailer habitus walmart greetus. I'm calling in all debts!
"Books tap the wisdom of our species -- the greatest minds, the best teachers -- from all over the world and from all our history. And they're patient."
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katzenjammer
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Re: Fabian Fascism, or Fabian Socialism. Do we have a choice?

Post by katzenjammer »

Maybe if I crack another beer---- :139:
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Mr Danksworth
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Re: Fabian Fascism, or Fabian Socialism. Do we have a choice?

Post by Mr Danksworth »

Tumult wrote:Image


Yes it will be...
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Re: Fabian Fascism, or Fabian Socialism. Do we have a choice?

Post by normaM »

nice boots
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Re: Fabian Fascism, or Fabian Socialism. Do we have a choice?

Post by sobrohusfat »

Hellomynameis wrote: I'm the one that wanted to talk about the topic...


well dangit!...and just when i was going to cary on with the pikey ('Caravan Utilising Nomadic Travellers') rabbit trail.
The adventure continues...

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Re: Fabian Fascism, or Fabian Socialism. Do we have a choice?

Post by NAB »

Hellomynameis wrote:
Nabcom wrote:
steven lloyd wrote:
Queen K wrote:
steven lloyd wrote:
Queen K wrote:
There was Nabster, crying like a :heartsaplenty: and where were you? Slutting around in some other thread instead of showing up like a knight in shining armour to slay the irrascible Hello.


:129:


Fine, I take back "slutting around" but that doesn't change the fact you were out cruising other thread.


I have been accused of “slutting around” on more than one occasion during my younger years. At my age now, though, “cruising” is as close that kind of excitement as it gets.


Sooo, as to the topic?

Nab


Oh stop whining, this is all your fault!

Besides, if anyone has the justification to to be an 'on topic' Nazi, its me. You just aborted some unquoted quote into threadistence for your boy toy, I'm the one that wanted to talk about the topic. N/m the "spot on" tea totalling tinfoil army that appeared out of nowhere, they/he doesn't count. Do we have a choice! You had a choice and I believe it went down like this: promising young school girl had a misguided night, verto in trailer habitus walmart greetus. I'm calling in all debts!


steelrules doesn't count? Now that's a low blow and totally uncalled for!
"He who controls others may be powerful, but he who has mastered himself is mightier still." - Lao-Tzu
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Re: Fabian Fascism, or Fabian Socialism. Do we have a choice?

Post by NAB »

katts wrote:Maybe if I crack another beer---- :139:


I'd offer ya one, but I only have one left and I think I'm gonna need it.
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steven lloyd
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Re: Fabian Fascism, or Fabian Socialism. Do we have a choice?

Post by steven lloyd »

Nabcom wrote:
katts wrote:Maybe if I crack another beer---- :139:


I'd offer ya one, but I only have one left and I think I'm gonna need it.


Sorry, beat ya to the fridge (ya snooze, ya lose) :discodance:
A day spent in defense of freedom of speech is a day spent in the company of bigots and hate mongers. – Omid Malekan
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Re: Fabian Fascism, or Fabian Socialism. Do we have a choice?

Post by NAB »

So anyway, it seems the concept of "Fabianism" can be applied to just about any philosophy that has a reasonably respectable following in numbers. What we once described in Canada as "creeping socialism" we now may describe as "Fabian Democracy" or "Democratic Socialism", "Social Democracy", or even "NDP" or "DP". In theory just a waypoint on the way to full socialism, or even communism, or for that matter potentially even Fascism? The state owns and/or runs everything and gradually its citizens become little more than mindless pawns. We today observe a fabian generated critical step in that direction in the US, as well as the resulting backlash.

Similarly, we now have something called "Fabian Facism", where some are suggesting that our current "Democratic System" is really using Fabianism as a means to move it toward a Fascist State rather than a fully socialist state. Perhaps not obviously to most people, but it seems more and more folk think we are almost there, full Fascism. The people "think" they own their assets and that government must and will do what the people want, but are incrementally moving to becoming mindless pawns in this scenario too.

In both cases it seems to me, over time, more and more of the "pawns" come to believe that everything "good" flows from government and if enough people can get on side government MUST do what they want, if they can just agree on what and who that government should be, and what form it should take. Where that sort of thing was once accomplished by sudden revolution when conditions were deemed ripe for it by their leader(s) (and still is in some societies), now it is accomplished through "Fabianism". The main difference I suppose is that where revolutions produced (or not) a relatively fast resolution of the question for those who fought the fight, the Fabian approach starts talking about theories that will not necessarily benefit the current generations, but will lead to a better world for our children, grandchildren, and future generations. One world government for example, or even Global Warming and Climate Change. It is interesting to contemplete that where western "democratic" generally right wing societies are gradually creeping to the left through Fabianism, other societies who have experienced the far left political philosophies are gradually creeping to the right, through Fabianism. Will both sides eventually meet in the middle to create some form of global consensus? Is "Fabian Change" even being used in our schools, colleges, and Universities to try and make "progress" (as the teachers see it) through our children?

I suppose we could even apply the theory of Fabian (creeping) change to many things in our Western "Democratic" societies. "Fabian Atheism", "Fabian Evangelism", "Fabian Economics 101", "Fabian Poverty", "Fabian gay rights", "Fabian Forum Discussion", etc, etc. ;-) The trick in any particular effort seems to be to find enough "mindless pawns" to follow the leader(s) to give whatever effort credibility in the minds of more and ever more people and trying to get them to take sides - "divide and conquer". It's no longer about winning the war, or even winning the battle, its about winning little seemingly isolated skirmishes and patiently wearing one's opponents down in small incremental steps. Another trick to avoid recognition of "Fabian Manipulation" is to divert or change the subject, at least for a while. Politicians, or political wannabees, seem particularly good at that.

Is it happening in many (most?) aspects of our lives? Is it growing and taking in more and more of the general population? Is it even already well progressed toward its end goal? Do the masses even recognize it is happening in almost every aspect of our lives, or even recognize those who are "doing it to us" and how they are doing it using the Fabian approach?

Do most even give a damn any more, given that most may have come to recognize that we (due to the nature of our society and political and activist manipulation) have no real say any more as individuals - as if we ever really did? Sure we debate, argue, fuss, fume, and complain among ourselves... But to what end or goal?

...Do we really have a choice and, if so, from among what options in a global sense? Or are we really a world of "sheep(le)" as some profess, perhaps more appropriately behaving like schools of small fish in a huge ocean rather than sheep in a pasture - darting here and there where the promise of sustenance and protection in numbers is greatest and, when danger approaches, reacting without thinking to follow the PERCEIVED majority reaction rather than be left separated and exposed.

Nab
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Re: Fabian Fascism, or Fabian Socialism. Do we have a choice?

Post by steelrules »

Governments know that we're in a lot of trouble, that the society is on the verge or precipice Governmet is increasing its powers in every way, for one day it knows that the people will wake up.
And I think it will be to late to stop these fascits.
Nabcom wrote:So anyway, it seems the concept of "Fabianism" can be applied to just about any philosophy that has a reasonably respectable following in numbers. What we once described in Canada as "creeping socialism" we now may describe as "Fabian Democracy" or "Democratic Socialism", "Social Democracy", or even "NDP" or "DP". In theory just a waypoint on the way to full socialism, or even communism, or for that matter potentially even Fascism? The state owns and/or runs everything and gradually its citizens become little more than mindless pawns. We today observe a fabian generated critical step in that direction in the US, as well as the resulting backlash.

Similarly, we now have something called "Fabian Facism", where some are suggesting that our current "Democratic System" is really using Fabianism as a means to move it toward a Fascist State rather than a fully socialist state. Perhaps not obviously to most people, but it seems more and more folk think we are almost there, full Fascism. The people "think" they own their assets and that government must and will do what the people want, but are incrementally moving to becoming mindless pawns in this scenario too.

In both cases it seems to me, over time, more and more of the "pawns" come to believe that everything "good" flows from government and if enough people can get on side government MUST do what they want, if they can just agree on what and who that government should be, and what form it should take. Where that sort of thing was once accomplished by sudden revolution when conditions were deemed ripe for it by their leader(s) (and still is in some societies), now it is accomplished through "Fabianism". The main difference I suppose is that where revolutions produced (or not) a relatively fast resolution of the question for those who fought the fight, the Fabian approach starts talking about theories that will not necessarily benefit the current generations, but will lead to a better world for our children, grandchildren, and future generations. One world government for example, or even Global Warming and Climate Change. It is interesting to contemplete that where western "democratic" generally right wing societies are gradually creeping to the left through Fabianism, other societies who have experienced the far left political philosophies are gradually creeping to the right, through Fabianism. Will both sides eventually meet in the middle to create some form of global consensus? Is "Fabian Change" even being used in our schools, colleges, and Universities to try and make "progress" (as the teachers see it) through our children?

I suppose we could even apply the theory of Fabian (creeping) change to many things in our Western "Democratic" societies. "Fabian Atheism", "Fabian Evangelism", "Fabian Economics 101", "Fabian Poverty", "Fabian gay rights", "Fabian Forum Discussion", etc, etc. ;-) The trick in any particular effort seems to be to find enough "mindless pawns" to follow the leader(s) to give whatever effort credibility in the minds of more and ever more people and trying to get them to take sides - "divide and conquer". It's no longer about winning the war, or even winning the battle, its about winning little seemingly isolated skirmishes and patiently wearing one's opponents down in small incremental steps. Another trick to avoid recognition of "Fabian Manipulation" is to divert or change the subject, at least for a while. Politicians, or political wannabees, seem particularly good at that.

Is it happening in many (most?) aspects of our lives? Is it growing and taking in more and more of the general population? Is it even already well progressed toward its end goal? Do the masses even recognize it is happening in almost every aspect of our lives, or even recognize those who are "doing it to us" and how they are doing it using the Fabian approach?

Do most even give a damn any more, given that most may have come to recognize that we (due to the nature of our society and political and activist manipulation) have no real say any more as individuals - as if we ever really did? Sure we debate, argue, fuss, fume, and complain among ourselves... But to what end or goal?

...Do we really have a choice and, if so, from among what options in a global sense? Or are we really a world of "sheep(le)" as some profess, perhaps more appropriately behaving like schools of small fish in a huge ocean rather than sheep in a pasture - darting here and there where the promise of sustenance and protection in numbers is greatest and, when danger approaches, reacting without thinking to follow the PERCEIVED majority reaction rather than be left separated and exposed.

Nab
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Re: Fabian Fascism, or Fabian Socialism. Do we have a choice?

Post by hellomynameis »

For a moment lets separate the Fabian Modus operandi from any specific movement, like fascism.

We can look upon Fabian tactics as a kind of marketing tool on par with repetitive phrasing and transference, they are just one tool in a large suite of tactics that “get the job done”. I don’t see fabianmism representing anything too sinister, certainly almost any issue contains Fabian tactics on the subconscious level: A ‘victory’ in how chores are to be done is a Fabian advancement on the larger front of how the household is governed. On the conscious/deliberate level I’d have to say Fabian tactics are almost naturalistic not that we go around thinking “I’m going to use fabianistic techniques to accomplish my goals” but we do seek out the small victories and advance many of our beliefs on other people in gradients.

Plus, we are living in a world where marketing and the “art of war” are ever progressing: Discovering more about human psychology, collecting and studying data, refining our techniques and delivery methods. However, this is another topic altogether.


… So beyond being cognisant of the fact that movements can be advanced by Fabian strategy (small steps) I think the overarching issue here is if there's a fascist movement taking over our country, no?

I disagree with this almost completely, so many of the governmental actions that people perceive as fascist are, imo, just premature labelling or propagandizing of the ‘opponents’ actions. When we look at it objectively our democracy has a massive gray area, in which the dimensions of freedoms and the governments role ebb and flow, new ideas implemented and abandoned. I have not seen our country get close to the tipping point of fascism or the negative aspects of socialism. What I do see is a bucket load of wrong moves, bad policies and etcetera, plus a mountain of bias that reflects our imperfections but hardly point to a fascist movement.

I guess it comes down to this:

It is easy to perceive a Fabian ploy but nearly impossible to objectively know when one is being used.
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