Evolution is not an opinion

[sleepdeprived]

We are in the middle of earths sixth mass extiction. Life extinction is nothing new here, and will continue.

We are?
Holy smokes!

How could I not know about this?

Wait... Is it possible that we are already extinct and that this forum is some sort of a reflexive physical echo of our existence?

[JoleneandJoel]

I brought sin into the conversation because it seems that there are some here who want to fit evolution into the framework of the Bible. I am trying to show that it doesn't fit into that framework. I never said that God doesn't hate, I suppose you are presuming that. He hates sin so much that it required death. That's why Christ had to die in our place. If you want to believe in a higher being that caused and even directs evolution that's great. Believe it! But why does it have to be the God of the Bible? Why not let me have my unscientific faith, in miracles and creation? Why try to mix the bible with your own ideas? Why not believe in aliens, or some other intelligent starter?

[Nebula]

But why does it have to be the God of the Bible?

Why not? What makes you the sole keeper of what should or should not be tied to the belief of the biblical god?

[JoleneandJoel]

Sorry I just remembered that I forgot to respond to the question of whether or not I believe someone could be saved who believes in theistic evolution. Of course they can. Look at the thief on the cross hanging beside Jesus. It doesn't appear that this criminal had a very good past and he even mentions that he deserved to be there. He asks Christ to remember him when he enters his kingdom, and Christ says today you will be with me in paradise.
Notice that Christ doesn't ask him about his beliefs about anything.
However I do believe that if you are a practicing Christian who believes in the Bible you should study it and determine the truths that God has revealed to us in scripture.

As for the last question, I'm simply confused on why people try to fit the two together.

[Nebula]

As for the last question, I'm simply confused on why people try to fit the two together.

It's quite simple. The Earth is billions of years old. There's just no way around it. It's a fact and if you want to be a Christian/Muslim/Jew, you either have to reconcile your faith with facts or ignore the facts.

[zzontar]

I do not think anyone can rationally deny that evolution has taken place. There is more than ample evidence that life on earth has changed over time.

What I do not feel science has provided a clear explaination for is the mechanism of the evolution. I find it hard to accept that life could have evolved the purely through random mutations. Someone earlier in this thread used the example of the many dog breeds as an example of evolution. I see a few problems with this...

1.The selective breeding of dogs to create the many breeds was controlled by man, it was not random.
2. This breeding has created no new species only new breeds.

So in terms of it being evidence of evolution it is a poor example.

The other thing that has never had a plausible explanation is the beginning of it all. I realize that this is a somewhat different subject than evolution but it is hard to accept the overall combination that...

1. Life randomly developed on its own. To have the right combination of atoms line up into the right combination of molecules; to combine into the right combination of protiens; to somehow combine into the right combination of RNA/DNA: all under the right combination of conditions for the first living cell. It seems to me that for this to have occured randomly is almost as far fetched as the "young earth" theory put forward by Christian conservatives.
2. Combine this with the odds of random mutations to occur over a period only a few billion years (from a statsitical stand point that is not nearly long enough for random mutations to allow life as we know it to develop).

If you realistically look at the chances of the combination of those two things both randomly occuring despite the overwhelming odds against them, it has to make you wonder....

I think scientists need to consider the posibilty that a higher power was involved in the process.

Even Richard Dawkins acknowledges the possibility that a higher power (God) exists. He choses to live his life on the "assumption" that one does not exist. His position is just as faith based as those who believe that there was a God behind Creation.

As to the young earth proponents... I will repeat what I have said before on other threads... God gave us brains. He probably did so with the intention of us using them.

Cheers

I agree completely... by this reasoning one could say they believe in evolution 100% and also disbelieve it 100%, depending on what stage you're talking about. The pro-evolutionists seem to focus on the fact that there's proof species have evolved, yet really shy away from how things got started.

[Nebula]

I don't shy away from anything. Evolution is not about how life started; it is about how it evolved.

[zzontar]

I don't shy away from anything. Evolution is not about how life started; it is about how it evolved.

If that were the case, what would the creation/evolution debate be about?

[Nebula]

I suggest you read up on the Scopes-Monkey trial.

I imagine the debate is very simple. The literal translation of the bible dictates that god created man, as in one moment there was no people and then, poof, there was. Evolution as we have come to know it has taken hundreds of millions or billions of years to happen -- not exactly a poof kind of thing.

In any event, as I said before, evolution is about how life has changed over time.

[zzontar]

It would be a simple debate if one side believed the literal poof theory... I don't think anyone on here does though.

[Nebula]

Oh, I think JoleneandJoel has come out in favour of a young-Earth creation stance.

[zzontar]

Ya, maybe you're right, but I see no reason why any creation theory besides the literal translation couldn't be included in the debate.

[Nebula]

Um, because an awful lot of people think there is no debate.

[zzontar]

Two sides that think there is no debate always makes for a debate.

[Nebula]

Do you believe in evolution?