Survival of the Fittest

Is there a god? What is the meaning of life?
User avatar
CJSchmidtz
Newbie
Posts: 44
Joined: Dec 8th, 2006, 7:13 pm

Survival of the Fittest

Post by CJSchmidtz »

The subtitle to the origin of the species was the “preservation of favored species” the practice of evolution is the survival of the fittest. If this really is what life amounts to how can you practice it in a society that generally holds all life to have value? You can of course say that such a concept has not been scientifically proven but it is difficult to deny concepts that seem as intuitive as our tendency towards trusting our senses. And really it is not like you would be allowed to work towards bringing competing races into extinction? So far it seems that only the Nazis really tried to put this into practice, well I guess you could say the slave traders thought the idea made sense. This idea would also be hard to swallow if you were not the one with the proverbial bigger beak. Let’s say someone finds that they are not apart of the group that has the most power should they then just roll over and play dead? Now let’s consider the possibility of someone saying we should not have to compete for resources etc, let’s weed out the weak, weed out the competition how could an evolutionist say anything to deny this? Honestly if I really thought that atheism was justified and macro evolution occurred via natural selection I suppose I would accept it, but it would probably make me suicidal rather then an ardent defender of everything meaningless?


For further discussion
http://www.thedarwinpapers.com/oldsite/ ... ber13.html
"What luck for rulers that men do not think"
Hitler
User avatar
Nebula
Buddha of the Board
Posts: 16288
Joined: Jul 6th, 2005, 9:52 am

Re: Survival of the Fittest

Post by Nebula »

It seems you are mixing things up mightily. The human desire, if you will, to assist those in trouble or with less has zippo to do with evolution. Hitler's quest to rid the world of gypsies, Jews and gays had nothing to do with evolution either. You have convoluted a number of issues into one and it isn't working.
You cannot reason someone out of a position that they did not use reason to arrive at.
User avatar
zzontar
Guru
Posts: 8868
Joined: Oct 12th, 2006, 9:38 pm

Re: Survival of the Fittest

Post by zzontar »

Nebula wrote:It seems you are mixing things up mightily. The human desire, if you will, to assist those in trouble or with less has zippo to do with evolution. Hitler's quest to rid the world of gypsies, Jews and gays had nothing to do with evolution either. You have convoluted a number of issues into one and it isn't working.


Do you know why every other species on the planet abandons their own if their own isn't "normal?"
They say you can't believe everything they say.
User avatar
Born_again
Guru
Posts: 5352
Joined: May 29th, 2008, 2:21 am

Re: Survival of the Fittest

Post by Born_again »

I can't help but to think that your fundamental understanding of evolutionary theory is flawed, CJSchmidtz. That's not to say that your post should dismissed out of hand, but rather, used as an example of how common misconceptions can proliferate through misinformation or mere ignorance.

CJSchmidtz, if you can understand the distinction between "race" and "species" when discussing evolutionary theory, you are well on the way to a greater understanding of the process. What a catholic does to a jew/gay/romani, or a slave trader over his slave, has absolutely no influence whatsoever on how the species successfully evolved within its given environment.

"Survival of the fittest" applies to species; not race, in the context of evolution.


zzontar wrote:Do you know why every other species on the planet abandons their own if their own isn't "normal?"


zzontar, yes: survival.... and the species *bleep* Sapiens is no exception. You have been born into a time of unparalleled excess(food) and medical technology. Had you been born with Down's syndrome 300 years ago, chances are that your parents would have lovingly smothered the life out of you minutes after birth.
At the end of the day, the driving force of nature is to replicate one's own genes, and see that your progeny survives long enough to replicate its own genes successfully. It really is as simple as that.

As perverse to our sensibilities as this sounds, I used to marvel at the beauty of nature when the hens I kept would selectively peck the scalp off of a couple of chicks in the clutch, thus ensuring a more favourable outlook for the remaining chicks in the brood. My daughter did not see it as such a wondrous spectacle though -- but then again, ignorance will distort your base perceptions.


EDIT TO ADD: Why is this topic posted in the "Religion and Philosophy" forum?
Image
User avatar
sobrohusfat
Guru
Posts: 5898
Joined: Jul 2nd, 2008, 12:42 am

Re: Survival of the Fittest

Post by sobrohusfat »

because of the bottom half of the text from the
http://www.thedarwinpapers.com/oldsite/ ... ber13.html
page?
The adventure continues...

No good story ever started with; "So i stayed home."
User avatar
zzontar
Guru
Posts: 8868
Joined: Oct 12th, 2006, 9:38 pm

Re: Survival of the Fittest

Post by zzontar »

Without survival of the fittest or natural selection genetic defects could easily wipe a species out, so without survival of the fittest, evolution probably wouldn't happen, making it a part of evolution.
They say you can't believe everything they say.
NAB
Buddha of the Board
Posts: 22985
Joined: Apr 19th, 2006, 1:33 pm

Re: Survival of the Fittest

Post by NAB »

Is it now the suggestion that only religious philosophy can be discussed in this forum? After all, the forum is entitled "Religion AND Philosophy", not just "Religious Philosophy".

According to Wiki...

"Philosophy is the study of general and fundamental problems concerning matters such as existence, knowledge, values, reason, mind, and language.[1][2] Philosophy is distinguished from other ways of addressing these questions (such as mysticism or mythology) by its critical, generally systematic approach and its reliance on reasoned argument.[3] Philosophy comes from the Greek φιλοσοφία [philosophia], which literally translates to "love of wisdom"."
"He who controls others may be powerful, but he who has mastered himself is mightier still." - Lao-Tzu
User avatar
Born_again
Guru
Posts: 5352
Joined: May 29th, 2008, 2:21 am

Re: Survival of the Fittest

Post by Born_again »

sobrohusfat wrote:because of the bottom half of the text from the
http://www.thedarwinpapers.com/oldsite/ ... ber13.html
page?


You'll have to forgive me, sobrohusfat; the second I saw the star of david I closed the page. I've now just had a secondary glance, but the infusion of evil, hatred, lies, and malevolence was too much for me. I'll stick to science, thank you, and I still maintain that the topic of, "survival of the fittest", when mentioned in the context of evolution, does not belong in the "Religion and Philosophy" thread.
Again, that weblink is a graphic example of how religion can hijack science for the furtherance of hatred and evil. What a pitiful state of affairs.
Image
Mr. Personality
Lord of the Board
Posts: 4284
Joined: Apr 12th, 2008, 7:54 am

Re: Survival of the Fittest

Post by Mr. Personality »

CJSchmidtz wrote:The subtitle to the origin of the species was the “preservation of favored species” the practice of evolution is the survival of the fittest. If this really is what life amounts to how can you practice it in a society that generally holds all life to have value?

It's possible. The side effects include laziness, obesity and a shared sense of self-entitlement.
User avatar
zzontar
Guru
Posts: 8868
Joined: Oct 12th, 2006, 9:38 pm

Re: Survival of the Fittest

Post by zzontar »

Mr. Personality wrote:
CJSchmidtz wrote:The subtitle to the origin of the species was the “preservation of favored species” the practice of evolution is the survival of the fittest. If this really is what life amounts to how can you practice it in a society that generally holds all life to have value?

It's possible. The side effects include laziness, obesity and a shared sense of self-entitlement.


The sad truth.
They say you can't believe everything they say.
User avatar
FunkyBunch
Übergod
Posts: 1266
Joined: Dec 1st, 2007, 2:23 pm

Re: Survival of the Fittest

Post by FunkyBunch »

Also, it's not really the survival of the fittest. It's really survival of the fit...enough. There's a minimum level of "fitness" that a species must ascribe to in order to survive, but by no means is it the fittest that necessarily survive.
User avatar
Lady tehMa
A Peer of the Realm
Posts: 20667
Joined: Aug 2nd, 2005, 3:51 pm

Re: Survival of the Fittest

Post by Lady tehMa »

FunkyBunch wrote:Also, it's not really the survival of the fittest. It's really survival of the fit...enough. There's a minimum level of "fitness" that a species must ascribe to in order to survive, but by no means is it the fittest that necessarily survive.


They made a movie about that . . . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiocracy
I haven't failed until I quit.
User avatar
FunkyBunch
Übergod
Posts: 1266
Joined: Dec 1st, 2007, 2:23 pm

Re: Survival of the Fittest

Post by FunkyBunch »

Yes, that is one of my favorite movies.
User avatar
steven lloyd
Buddha of the Board
Posts: 19291
Joined: Dec 1st, 2004, 7:38 pm

Re: Survival of the Fittest

Post by steven lloyd »

Lady tehMa wrote: They made a movie about that . . . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiocracy




Sounds like modern day British Columbia (North America?):

They discover that the world has degenerated into a dystopia where advertising, commercialism, and cultural anti-intellectualism run rampant and dysgenic pressure has resulted in a uniformly stupid human society devoid of individual responsibility or consequences.
A day spent in defense of freedom of speech is a day spent in the company of bigots and hate mongers. – Omid Malekan
User avatar
Captain Awesome
Buddha of the Board
Posts: 24998
Joined: Jul 22nd, 2008, 5:06 pm

Re: Survival of the Fittest

Post by Captain Awesome »

steven lloyd wrote:
Lady tehMa wrote: They made a movie about that . . . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiocracy




Sounds like modern day British Columbia (North America?):

They discover that the world has degenerated into a dystopia where advertising, commercialism, and cultural anti-intellectualism run rampant and dysgenic pressure has resulted in a uniformly stupid human society devoid of individual responsibility or consequences.


It's actually a rather clever movie.

Clever and sad because you understand that it's true.
Sarcasm is like a good game of chess. Most people don't know how to play chess.

Return to “Religion & Spirituality”